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Hi, im sorry to ask people of this but it seems like such a long discussed issue that not many people have an answer.

My question is that is it against the rules for child avatars to be naked?.

*I've looked over the rules several times and it doesn't say much about that in particular and i get a very 2 sided story when i ask about it, some say its not allowed others say it is. And considering i see nudity beach themed sims with nude child avatars in it all the time with no reprocutions from lindens labs i was wondering if it was in fact allowed to have on a sim.

So please f anyone could give me a straight forward answer so i can be sure what i should allow onto my sim, thank you o.O

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Yes, that's what SL needs right now ... a region for naked child avatars.

You've obviously studied the ToS and are now busy wondering if you can get away with something because it's not specifically listed.

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6 minutes ago, ShyRedBunny said:

And considering i see nudity beach themed sims with nude child avatars in it all the time with no reprocutions from lindens labs i was wondering if it was in fact allowed to have on a sim.

Wow.  Several things.  Linden Lab.  One lab and one Linden.

What is allowed by Linden Lab?
https://www.lindenlab.com/tos

That is the TOS or Terms of Service.  That is your first stop for answers.  It is not the end all be all of policy, tho.  For one thing you need to also look at the related policies in Section 12.  Specifically, the Community Standards policy.
https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/community-standards

That then leads to Inappropriate Content and the Content Guidelines.
https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/content-guidelines

These then also reference the Maturity Ratings wiki.

============================

WOW!!

What does all of that mean?
Absolutely nothing. 

Why?
Because " i was wondering if it was in fact allowed to have on a sim."  If the sim owner says no, then you can't.  What the Lindens say does not apply.

 

OK, so the TOS and various guidelines do say a lot of things.  Whether or not you get banned depends as much on what the person picking up the AR ticket feels is happening as much as what is written down.  That said the general idea is that while nudity does not equal adult content, if sexual activity is happening on the sim, children are forbidden. If you are simulating sexual activity and some 50 year old dude with a child avatar barges in and starts taking snapshots and ARing himself .. well, I hope you get a Linden that is willing to listen to your side because in all honesty, they don't have to. Thus the resident paranoia about child avatars and the sweeping policies they make for their sim.  Such as no child nudity at all.  Their sim; their rules.

 

Is that clear?  Just because it is not expressly forbidden by Linden lab does not mean that every land owner MUST allow it.

 

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i am the owner

i want to know what is appropriate so i can apply it properly to my own sim and recieve a limited amount of x

Quote

complaints as possible

but thankyou for that information it was very helpful

 

 

Edited by ShyRedBunny

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Owning your own sim does not grant you the ability to avoid the ToS or getting a permaban when someone AR's you ... and they will 

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im not trying to avoid or get my way around any rules i just wanted clear information on what can and can not do as there seems to be a lot of discussions around this particular subject and as ive seen many other clubs do it as well due to that many of my staff and myself are a little confused as to what we should make of that. my goal with are club is to make it all inclusive, so i wanted to know if i can have child avis and nudity in the same space as i have seen many other clubs do the same thing, There are no sexual conducts on the sim what so every so i figured it would be okay to as i wanted it to be family friendly.

So just because i mentioned and questioned this part of the terms and services please do not assume immediately that im trying to work my way around it or that i am going to allow that conduct on the sim.

but i do thank you on the information you guys have provided there was a couple of links there that i hadn't yet seen so it was very useful thank you Rhonda Huntress.

Edited by ShyRedBunny

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2 hours ago, ShyRedBunny said:

My question is that is it against the rules for child avatars to be naked?.

No. It's not against the rules. As kid avatars can have naked pixels under the TOS, if you decide to allow your club to accept it, it's fine.

Keep your club as M rated as you can, watch that any cuddle poses can't be too waylaid, make it clear you have a zero tolerance policy for sexual activity, and I would suggest set your age kicker at 30 days.

Oh, and be prepared for two things, the rabbits, and a lot of people to tell you what you accept is wrong.

 

Important Edit: Ah, when I profile stalk you one point to change my general opinion above is that your cafe is in a shared adult sim. That really makes it too risky. You can't easily control what people do in the other parcels.

For that reason only I'd be leaning to /kids ok but no nudity/ or /nudity ok but no kids/. The three in conjuntion is a mess just waiting to happen. The rabbits I mentioned above will jump at the chance.

Edited by Callum Meriman

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11 hours ago, ShyRedBunny said:

Hi, im sorry to ask people of this but it seems like such a long discussed issue that not many people have an answer.

My question is that is it against the rules for child avatars to be naked?.

*I've looked over the rules several times and it doesn't say much about that in particular and i get a very 2 sided story when i ask about it, some say its not allowed others say it is. And considering i see nudity beach themed sims with nude child avatars in it all the time with no reprocutions from lindens labs i was wondering if it was in fact allowed to have on a sim.

So please f anyone could give me a straight forward answer so i can be sure what i should allow onto my sim, thank you o.O

No, there is no rule saying child avatars cannot be naked.

There is a myriad of rules saying what a child avatar can and cannot do, but nothing saying a child cannot disrobe.

If you have adult situations on your sim it is the responsibility of the child avatar to remove themselves from close proximity to them.

 

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4 minutes ago, Phorumities said:

it is the responsibility of the child avatar to remove themselves from close proximity to them.

I believe a recent, well documented on the forums, event at an adult club brought that presumption into question. 

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42 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

I believe a recent, well documented on the forums, event at an adult club brought that presumption into question. 

Which presumption is that?

From what I've read in the forums, if a child is in close proximity to adult activities, it is the child's responsibility to remove themselves from the vicinity of the adult activity, and the child can be ARed if they don't leave.

Please point me to anything that shows me to be in error

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18 minutes ago, Phorumities said:

Please point me to anything that shows me to be in error

I have searched for the thread and probably, not surprisingly as a lot of threads on the subject of child avatars do, its been removed.  In short a child was at an afk place when obviously the adult was afk and the club owner was the one in trouble even though they had done everything in their power to stop such situations.  If I am wrong then I am sure someone will correct me. 

Of course we all like to assume its the child avatar that should remove themselves or be in trouble but this was not the case.

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Just now, Cindy Evanier said:

I have searched for the thread and probably, not surprisingly as a lot of threads on the subject of child avatars do, its been removed.  In short a child was at an afk place when obviously the adult was afk and the club owner was the one in trouble even though they had done everything in their power to stop such situations.  If I am wrong then I am sure someone will correct me. 

Of course we all like to assume its the child avatar that should remove themselves or be in trouble but this was not the case.

So all someone has to do to shut down a club/sim  they don't like, or perhaps had an altercation with the owner, is to show up on the sim with a throw away child avatar, pose it in an adult situation with an adult, report it, and the sim owner is in trouble?

That is far more destructive than old fashioned griefing and you get LL to do the work of destroying someone's Second Life for you.

Someone at LL wasn't using their critical thinking skills about this kind of situation.

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3 hours ago, Phorumities said:

So all someone has to do to shut down a club/sim  they don't like, or perhaps had an altercation with the owner, is to show up on the sim with a throw away child avatar, pose it in an adult situation with an adult, report it, and the sim owner is in trouble?

Not the sim owner as much as the afk-adult that gets griefed. When the Lab burn an account with fire for this AR category every alt they know of is erased. In Zeta's case we know the AR was against her male AFK alt, so she was caught up in his AR.

However region/club owners can be banned if they "facilitate" and that's in the TOS/CS/Asscoiated Wikis.

 

 

Edited by Callum Meriman
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30 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

Not the sim owner as much as the afk-adult that gets griefed. When the Lab burn an account with fire for this AR category every alt they know of is erased. In Zeta's case we know the AR was against her male AFK alt, so she was caught up in his AR.

However region/club owners can be banned if they "facilitate" and that's in the TOS/CS/Asscoiated Wikis.

 

 

And that's fair?

If you have an adult club you can't help it if some creepy child avi out to make trouble shows up and starts filing AR's 

 

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20 minutes ago, Phorumities said:

And that's fair?

If you have an adult club you can't help it if some creepy child avi out to make trouble shows up and starts filing AR's

I didn't say it was fair ;)

I would make the point that due to the penalty for this I consider an avatar who normally is a kid shape wouldn't likely be doing it as much as a competitor or griefer who makes a throw away account, buys the L$1 mesh kid body, adds some copybot hair and does it.

When I made that point in Zeta's thread the common response was "but people can get a free furry body and grief too" ignoring the fact that furry griefing isn't a burn it in fire offense.

So meh. Governance are weird.

Edited by Callum Meriman

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14 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

I didn't say it was fair ;)

I would make the point that due to the penalty for this I consider an avatar who normally is a kid shape wouldn't likely be doing it as much as a competitor or griefer who makes a throw away account, buys the L$1 mesh kid body, adds some copybot hair and does it.

When I made that point in Zeta's thread the common response was "but people can get a free furry body and grief too" ignoring the fact that furry griefing isn't a burn it in fire offense.

So meh. Governance are weird.

Yes  I agree, it's done by griefers using throw away accounts. Why doesn't LL take that into consideration?

So, in theory I could go afk on a beach mat that contains adult poses, and the next thing I know I've been perma banned for child s e x.

LL is seriously effed up over this.

*waiting to be forum suspended for daring to criticize the Linden Gods*

 

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What information is there to consider? They have the text of the report and a screenshot.

At the end of the day you are responsible for you own avatar, if you park it AFK then you're probably SOL.

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25 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

What information is there to consider? They have the text of the report and a screenshot.

At the end of the day you are responsible for you own avatar, if you park it AFK then you're probably SOL.

So a griefer using a throw away account reports himself and the afk avatar for child s e x ?

And LL gives it any sort of credence at all?

Doesn't LL see this is just a griefing technique?

That is just so wrong.

Edited by Phorumities
added a line

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7 hours ago, Phorumities said:

So all someone has to do to shut down a club/sim  they don't like, or perhaps had an altercation with the owner, is to show up on the sim with a throw away child avatar, pose it in an adult situation with an adult, report it, and the sim owner is in trouble?

Which is why many of us who hold or have held Sim Officer posts on A rated sims, often regard kid avis as...

"Paedo Mc Kreepy Inc. AR Clickbait Avatar Walking ToS Violations..."

This is why the common method of dealing with kid avis on adult sims is to hse them down with a flamenwerfer, before launching them at a hypersonic velocity, into a 30m thick wall of depleted uranium, covered in 10 foot long armour piercing Anti Kiddie Spikes, and THEN you get medieval on whatever is left...

7 hours ago, Phorumities said:

Someone at LL wasn't using their critical thinking skills about this kind of situation.

On their what thinking? Hahahaha...

3 hours ago, Phorumities said:

And that's fair?

As a Randian Cultist, "Fair" shouldn't be in your vocabulary... No it's not fair.

These pint sized little ******s have a Free Market to AR  Clickbait Grief whoever they want, that's why standard A-Sim policy is "Kid avi... Kill it! Kill it with FIRE!".

8 hours ago, Phorumities said:

From what I've read in the forums, if a child is in close proximity to adult activities, it is the child's responsibility to remove themselves from the vicinity of the adult activity

There is one habitual AR-Clickbait avatar wearing individual, who loiters on the forums, who has publically stated that it is his "C*ntstitutional Right to visit A Rated sims", and that it is YOUR responsibility to stop doing Adult stuff when his AR-Clickbait avatar arrives there, where you are.

2 hours ago, Phorumities said:

So, in theory I could go afk on a beach mat that contains adult poses, and the next thing I know I've been perma banned for child s e x.

You get banned, your alts get banned, everyone on your friends list gets investigated, and all their alts, and may be suspended pending investigation, the sim gets shut down, the sim owner gets banned, all their alts get banned, all their friends get investigated, and all their alts, and may be suspended pending investigation...

53 minutes ago, Phorumities said:

And LL gives it any sort of credence at all?

Doesn't LL see this is just a griefing technique?

That is just so wrong.

Official policy seems to be "There's always somebody else to buy the island...", as in ban whoever, there are always more customers just around the corner. Yes, it's wrong, but that is how it is.

That's why so many people in SL quite rightly hate Paedo Mc Kreepy Inc AR-Clickbait Avatar Walking ToS Violations, and ban them from their parcels and sims on sight.

No questions asked, no answers listened to...

" I r not naked kreepy kid avi here to break da ToS, I r haz FOOTWIGS, I r naked ADULT hobbits!"
 

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2 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

".........I r naked ADULT hobbits!"

OK .. I kinda lost it at that one :D .. damn. We are of one mind.

PYE3gFW.jpg

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38 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

OK .. I kinda lost it at that one :D .. damn. We are of one mind.

PYE3gFW.jpg

...

On 17 October 2017 at 11:47 AM, Klytyna said:

Me: Sim rules no kid avis, please leave or change into an an adult avi

Kreepy Kid: ToS say I R hav rite to b here

Me: You have... 60... seconds to reach... minimum... safe... distance...

Kreepy: I r not kid, see i haz foot wigs, I R adult Hobbit!

Me: You have... 50... seconds to reach... minimum... safe... distance...

Kreepy: Avrage hite of wimmins r 5 fut 3 u kno, i r normul sized, u all r giants!

Me: You have... 40... seconds to reach... minimum... safe... distance...

Kreepy: I r alowd cos i r anime!

Me: You have... 30... Ahhhh hell with it... Please enjoy your complimentary "Thighboot of Banjection Suppository" *puntkick*

Kreepy: Aiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii... *splash*

Me: NEXT!



 

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2 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

What information is there to consider? They have the text of the report and a screenshot.

At the end of the day you are responsible for you own avatar, if you park it AFK then you're probably SOL.

Double plus for SOL - nailed it all round.

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