Buying Land Without a Premium Membership

[ChoiceRider]

I've had a premium membership for some time, but friends of mine who do not often ask how they can buy land while not having a premium membership.

This is a three-part question:

1) How is purchasing land accomplished without a premium membership?

2) How to search for lands available for sale to residents without a premium membership.

3) Are there any shortcomings by purchasing lands without a premium membership?

Thank you for any consideration concerning this topic.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Dakota Linden

[Klytyna]

1. You cannot buy Madlands parcels without Entitlement Club membership.

You CAN buy parcels on private estates, out in the Islands, without Entitlement Club membership, technically this is renting from the estate owner for L$ rather than renting direct from LL for US$. So you don't pay Tier direct to LL, you pay rent to a landlord.

2. Check the adverts from the Estate companies renting out Islands parcels, you can also see them highlighted yellow on the in-world map, just like Madlands parcels. There is no specific search method to just show Island Estates parcels.

However most of the larger Estate Companies employ "customer service reps" to show prospective renters to a parcel thats the size and Maturity rating they asked for. Just go to the companies sales office in-world.

3. Yeah, you don't get Live Chat support, Stipend, or those Entitlement Club 'Gifts', and if you are Entitlement Club, you can't use your "tier free 1024" towards the cost of your rent.

Also, typically you'll pay more.

 

[ChoiceRider]

7 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

"tier free 1024"

Thank you for your experienced input.

Would you please explain further what is meant by "tier free 1024". I have a 1024 but pay monthly tier.

[Klytyna]

8 minutes ago, ChoiceRider said:

Thank you for your experienced input.

Would you please explain further what is meant by "tier free 1024". I have a 1024 but pay monthly tier.

If you buy entitlement Club membership you get 1024 sqm of Madlands, "tier free" no monthly tier payments to LL, or 512 sqm tier free and a free "Entitlement Club LL House".

Edit:

You get the house automatically when you sign up for entitlement Club, to get a 1024, you have to give up the house, then find a 1024 Madlands plot, then PAY the current owner for it.

THEN it's yours, but purchase doesn't include any tier, so depending on the size of the plot you buy, you'll possibly have tier to pay as well, and paying the previous owner can be expensive depending on where the plot is, some plots on Zindra go for 20 L$ /sqm or more...

Typically, "buying" private estates plots costs 1 weeks rental, and includes... 1 Weeks rental.

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by Klytyna

[ChoiceRider]

23 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

entitlement Club membership you get 1024 sqm of Madlands, "tier free" no monthly tier payments to LL, or 512 sqm tier free

1

I've always referred to this chart for monthly payments:

https://secondlife.com/land/pricing.php

Sorry for my ignorance, but are "tier" and "land use fee " the same? Also, this chart indicates that 512 has a land use fee of $4.00 and 1024 $7.00

What am I overlooking when comparing this chart to your explanation of 512 and 1024 bing tier free?

Edited July 5, 2018 by ChoiceRider
misspelling

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, ChoiceRider said:

I've always referred to this chart for monthly payments:

https://secondlife.com/land/pricing.php

Sorry for my ignorance, but are "tier" and "land use fee " the same? Also, this chart indicates that 512 has a land use fee of $4.00 and 1024 $7.00

What am I overlooking when comparing this chart to your explanation of 512 and 1024 bing tier free?

Read the line directly above the table on that page:

Quote

Premium accounts are granted a 1,024 sqm bonus lease before land use fees are applied. The chart below shows the fees for all land you hold or tier you donate beyond the 1,024 sqm bonus.

To your original questions: without Premium membership, land can only be rented from private owners, not from Linden Lab. (Confusingly, renting from an Estate often uses the same process as buying Mainland, so that may be part of what your friends are asking.)

[EDIT: Oh, and yeah, "tier" is another word for the recurring monthly "land use fee", presumably so-called because it's not simply pro-rated per square meter but comes denominated in the levels or "tiers" shown in that chart.]

Edited July 5, 2018 by Qie Niangao

[ChoiceRider]

6 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Quote

Premium accounts are granted a 1,024 sqm bonus lease before land use fees are applied. The chart below shows the fees for all land you hold or tier you donate beyond the 1,024 sqm bonus.

 

To your original questions: without Premium membership, land can only be rented from private owners, not from Linden Lab. (Confusingly, renting from an Estate often uses the same process as buying Mainland, so that may be part of what your friends are asking.)

 

The quote from the chart is as confusing as can be; "granted a 1,024 sqm bonus lease before land use fees are applied" What kind of bonus is this? (I would assume it has a monetary value of some amount), and how does granting it before land use fees make a difference?

You're wanting to comment on my original questions, but then you speak only on renting, which has nothing to do with my original questions. My questions are dealing with buying, purchasing and land for sale, and nothing is said about renting.

[Qie Niangao]

So the 1024 Premium "bonus" is the Mainland you can own without needing to pay additional tier to own more. So, for example, if you wanted to own 1536 sq.m., you'd get 1024 of it as "bonus" just for having Premium membership, and then have to pay for the additional 512 as shown in that chart.

In the "rental" part of my response, I was simply trying to take the positive view on what can be done without paying Premium. That does not include buying land. (There are, however, Estate rentals that look a bit like buying land, so I wanted to point out that potential confusion.)

[ChoiceRider]

11 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

So the 1024 Premium "bonus" is the Mainland you can own without needing to pay additional tier to own more. So, for example, if you wanted to own 1536 sq.m., you'd get 1024 of it as "bonus" just for having Premium membership, and then have to pay for the additional 512 as shown in that chart.

In the "rental" part of my response, I was simply trying to take the positive view on what can be done without paying Premium. That does not include buying land. (There are, however, Estate rentals that look a bit like buying land, so I wanted to point out that potential confusion.)

Renting is a bottomless pit, and should be avoided if at all possible. Land use fees(tier), is much like mortgage payments but far worse. By the chart, I'd think I've been paying US$35.00/mon for an 8192 I bought for L$8000. Converting $35.00 into Lindens, I have a monthly fee of L$8750 at today's conversion rate. Do you see the dichotomy? I am paying L$750 more than my original cost every month. This is what we call highway robbery.

What I was hoping for, in my immutable simplicity, is to purchase the largest properties that would not incur tier, small as they may be.

[ChoiceRider]

2 hours ago, Klytyna said:

You get the house automatically when you sign up for entitlement Club, to get a 1024, you have to give up the house then find a 1024 Madlands plot, then PAY the current owner for it.

THEN it's yours, but purchase doesn't include any tier, so depending on the size of the plot you buy, you'll possibly have tier to pay as well, and paying the previous owner can be expensive depending on where the plot is, some plots on Zindra go for 20 L$ /sqm or more...

Typically, "buying" private estates plots costs 1 weeks rental, and includes... 1 Weeks rental.

 

4

4

"to get a 1024, you have to give up the house"  I have a 1024, but I've yet to give up the Linden Home?

""buying" private estates plots costs 1 weeks rental, and includes... 1 Weeks rental."

What is the usage of this word "rental"? I never rent. How would I be charged rent?

Edited July 5, 2018 by ChoiceRider

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, ChoiceRider said:

Renting is a bottomless pit, and should be avoided if at all possible. Land use fees(tier), is much like mortgage payments but far worse. By the chart, I'd think I've been paying US$35.00/mon for an 8192 I bought for L$8000. Converting $35.00 into Lindens, I have a monthly fee of L$8750 at today's conversion rate. Do you see the dichotomy? I am paying L$750 more than my original cost every month. This is what we call highway robbery.

What I was hoping for, in my immutable simplicity, is to purchase the largest properties that would not incur tier, small as they may be.

https://www.realtor.com/welcome/findarealtor/?cid=sem_getRealtor-national_havas

Because nobody "buys" any "property" in Second Life. Tier is not a mortgage, but a tax. It has nothing to do with the amount someone pays to "own" a piece of "property."

[ChoiceRider]

50 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

https://www.realtor.com/welcome/findarealtor/?cid=sem_getRealtor-national_havas

Because nobody "buys" any "property" in Second Life. Tier is not a mortgage, but a tax. It has nothing to do with the amount someone pays to "own" a piece of "property."

 

You just insert an ad in my post. If this is a practice then that would be spam.

You say "Tier is not a mortgage", that's in reference to my saying "much like mortgage payments". I did not say it was a mortgage payment, though it's much worse. 

Then you say "It has nothing to do with the amount someone pays ". Did you read into something totally different than what I had said to make such a statement? I pointed to the different tiers for the different sizes of lots. not cost.

Edited July 5, 2018 by ChoiceRider
additional thought

[Love Zhaoying]

6 hours ago, ChoiceRider said:

1) How is purchasing land accomplished without a premium membership?

Not possible.

[ChoiceRider]

7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Not possible.

 

Care to explain why? I know one 18-year-old newbie girl who did it, though, with complications that finally reach a resolution, but understand, she speaks 4 languages and finished top of her classes. We can't all be that intelligent.

[Love Zhaoying]

27 minutes ago, ChoiceRider said:

 

Care to explain why? I know one 18-year-old newbie girl who did it, though, with complications that finally reach a resolution, but understand, she speaks 4 languages and finished top of her classes. We can't all be that intelligent.

It’s the rules. 

[ChoiceRider]

6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

It’s the rules. 

What rules? So, how did she bend/break the rules, if these rules you elude to make it impossible? I'm not aware of any rule prohibiting residents from buying private lands.

[Klytyna]

3 hours ago, ChoiceRider said:

"to get a 1024, you have to give up the house"  I have a 1024, but I've yet to give up the Linden Home?

""buying" private estates plots costs 1 weeks rental, and includes... 1 Weeks rental."

What is the usage of this word "rental"? I never rent. How would I be charged rent?

In FirstLife... If you BUY land, freehold, it's your forever... If you buy LEASEHOLD, you have to pay a yearly lease fee, and the lease can expire, and the land reverts to the Freeholder.

In SecondLife "buy land" does not mean buy land, as the term is usually interpreted in FirstLife...

You buy a piece of Madlands, and thereafter you pay Tier to LL (rent). All you have "bought" is the right to be charged the rent, monthly in US$ by LL, and the right to have your name listed as parcel owner. Now, if your TOTAL Madlands holdings are 1024 or less, you don't pay Tier (rent) as that's included in your Entitlement Club membership fee.

If your total Madlands holdings go OVER 1024, then you start paying Tier (rent) to LL as per that table you found.

In the private estates, if you "buy land" you get your name on the parcel, and the Estate owner charges you rent, usually weekly, in L$.

3 hours ago, ChoiceRider said:

Renting is a bottomless pit, and should be avoided if at all possible.

Not possible in SL.

3 hours ago, ChoiceRider said:

nd should be avoided if at all possible. Land use fees(tier), is much like mortgage payments but far worse

It's Rent, just under a different name...

3 hours ago, ChoiceRider said:

This is what we call highway robbery.

That's what we call Tier/Land Use Fee, Maintenance Fee/Rent...

3 hours ago, ChoiceRider said:

What I was hoping for, in my immutable simplicity, is to purchase the largest properties that would not incur tier, small as they may be.

Only way NOT to incur Tier/Rent at all, ever, is 1) Buy Entitlement Club membership, and keep buying it, every year, and 2) keep your total land holding at 1024 or less.

SL has no such thing as "pay once never pay again" land, anywhere.

You always pay something, a membership fee, tier, private sim monthly maintenance cost, or rent, either directly to LL or indirectly via a landlord.

...

Remember, the amount you "pay" to "buy" a Madlands parcel is a private deal between you and the seller, the amount of the "purchase price" is irrelevant to how much "Tier/LL Rent" you will have to pay, every month after that.

All the Madlands purchase price buys you is your name on the land and the right to be billed by LL, every month...

Fail to pay the rent, they take the land away from you and sell it to somebody else...

EVERYONE RENTS IN SL.
 

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, ChoiceRider said:

What rules? So, how did she bend/break the rules, if these rules you elude to make it impossible? I'm not aware of any rule prohibiting residents from buying private lands.

Okay, two possibilities.

One, this friend may have found some private Estate owner willing to sell her a perpetuity-backed lease that front-loads all future Linden Lab fees that SL land incurs -- assuming SL lasts forever and LL's recurring fees follow some predictable trajectory. This would cost many US$ per sq.m. of virtual "land" and be a fantastically stupid thing to do.

Two: there indeed were lifetime memberships sold briefly during Second Life's early history. They were expensive and bought some amount of Mainland (1024? 4096? not sure) and were to remain tier-free for the lifetime of the subscriber (or maybe for the lifetime of SL -- which only the most optimistic few could imagine would last this long). Perhaps one of those early lifetime subscribers would sell-off a kind of sublet "ownership" -- but this would have to be informal, unknown to LL, and at risk of being revoked at any time.

[ChoiceRider]

7 hours ago, Klytyna said:

In FirstLife... If you BUY land, freehold, it's your forever... If you buy LEASEHOLD, you have to pay a yearly lease fee, and the lease can expire, and the land reverts to the Freeholder.

In SecondLife "buy land" does not mean buy land, as the term is usually interpreted in FirstLife...

You buy a piece of Madlands, and thereafter you pay Tier to LL (rent). All you have "bought" is the right to be charged the rent, monthly in US$ by LL, and the right to have your name listed as parcel owner. Now, if your TOTAL Madlands holdings are 1024 or less, you don't pay Tier (rent) as that's included in your Entitlement Club membership fee.

If your total Madlands holdings go OVER 1024, then you start paying Tier (rent) to LL as per that table you found.

In the private estates, if you "buy land" you get your name on the parcel, and the Estate owner charges you rent, usually weekly, in L$.

Not possible in SL.

It's Rent, just under a different name...

That's what we call Tier/Land Use Fee, Maintenance Fee/Rent...

Only way NOT to incur Tier/Rent at all, ever, is 1) Buy Entitlement Club membership, and keep buying it, every year, and 2) keep your total land holding at 1024 or less.

SL has no such thing as "pay once never pay again" land, anywhere.

You always pay something, a membership fee, tier, private sim monthly maintenance cost, or rent, either directly to LL or indirectly via a landlord.

...

Remember, the amount you "pay" to "buy" a Madlands parcel is a private deal between you and the seller, the amount of the "purchase price" is irrelevant to how much "Tier/LL Rent" you will have to pay, every month after that.

All the Madlands purchase price buys you is your name on the land and the right to be billed by LL, every month...

Fail to pay the rent, they take the land away from you and sell it to somebody else...

EVERYONE RENTS IN SL.
 

This is the best yet.. see if I got this right

I now "rent" three properties. linden home 512 @ $4, 1024 @ $7 and 8192 @ $35

Thant's 9728 @ $46

Because I'm an Entitlement Club Member, I'm gifted 1024 "rent" free

That adjusts to 9728 - 1024 = 9704 @ "rent" unknown

To reach my goal of no "rent", I must sell/abandon the 512 and 8192, bringing it down to 1024 @ $7 - 1024 "rent" free gift = $0 "rent"

The $6 or L$1500 paid monthly for the Entitlement Club Membership is dispersed payment among several gifts/benefits. But isn't one of those gifts a L$300 weekly stipend? If that's so(I've never seen it) then my L$1500/mon "rent" is brought down to [1500 - (4 * 300)] = L$300 for monthly "rent" + membership fee

lol, is this correct? If so, then why haven't I seen my weekly stipend?

Edited July 5, 2018 by ChoiceRider

[ChoiceRider]

6 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Okay, two possibilities.

One, this friend may have found some private Estate owner willing to sell her a perpetuity-backed lease that front-loads all future Linden Lab fees that SL land incurs -- assuming SL lasts forever and LL's recurring fees follow some predictable trajectory. This would cost many US$ per sq.m. of virtual "land" and be a fantastically stupid thing to do.

Two: there indeed were lifetime memberships sold briefly during Second Life's early history. They were expensive and bought some amount of Mainland (1024? 4096? not sure) and were to remain tier-free for the lifetime of the subscriber (or maybe for the lifetime of SL -- which only the most optimistic few could imagine would last this long). Perhaps one of those early lifetime subscribers would sell-off a kind of sublet "ownership" -- but this would have to be informal, unknown to LL, and at risk of being revoked at any time.

 

I believe I should arrive at a happy medium.

	Size	Prims	"rent"
	512	175	$4  (1024 gift = $0 "rent")
	1,024	351	$7  (1024 gift = $0 "rent")
	2,048	703	$13 (1024 gift = $7 "rent")
	4,096	1,406	$22 (1024 gift = $17? "rent")
	8,192	2,812	$35 (1024 gift = $28? "rent")

Putting in perspective concidering a 1024 credit:

       512 @ $0 = L$0/mon "rent" (175 prims)

    1,024 @ $0 = L$0/mon "rent" (350 prims)

    2,048 @ $7 = L$3250/mon "rent" (703 prims)

4,096 @ $17? = L$4250 /mon "rent" (1406 prims)

8,192 @ $28? = L$7000 /mon "rent" (2812 prims)

The initial cost of these propertis shouldn't weigh in these equations.

The three factors that do matter are size/rent/prims

 size        rent         prims

 512           0             175

1024          0             350

2048      3250          703

4096      4250         1406

8192      7000         2812

Popular Rentals:

                  240           40

                  796          170

4096        1120         250

16,384     1920         400

[Parhelion Palou]

2 hours ago, ChoiceRider said:

I believe I should arrive at a happy medium.

	Size	Prims	"rent"
	512	175	$4  (1024 gift = $0 "rent")
	1,024	351	$7  (1024 gift = $0 "rent")
	2,048	703	$13 (1024 gift = $7 "rent")
	4,096	1,406	$22 (1024 gift = $17? "rent")
	8,192	2,812	$35 (1024 gift = $28? "rent")

Putting in perspective concidering a 1024 credit:

       512 @ $0 = L$0/mon "rent" (175 prims)

    1,024 @ $0 = L$0/mon "rent" (350 prims)

    2,048 @ $7 = L$3250/mon "rent" (703 prims)

4,096 @ $17? = L$4250 /mon "rent" (1406 prims)

8,192 @ $28? = L$7000 /mon "rent" (2812 prims)

The initial cost of these propertis shouldn't weigh in these equations.

The three factors that do matter are size/rent/prims

 size        rent         prims

 512           0             175

1024          0             350

2048      3250          703

4096      4250         1406

8192      7000         2812

Popular Rentals:

                  240           40

                  796          170

4096        1120         250

16,384     1920         400

First: Tier levels describe the monthly tier cost for square meters of land after subtracting free tier (the 1024 sqm). If you bought a 1040 sqm parcel, you'd pay $4 per month. The calculation is 1040 - 1024 = 16, which falls into the 512 sqm tier. If you bought a 1536 sqm parcel, you'd pay $4 per month, because the amount over 1024 is 512, which still fits in the 512 tier level. Therefore, the 2048/4096/8192 parcel sizes would be:
size        rent        prims
2048      1750       703          2048 - 1024 free = 1024, so the 1024 tier level is used, which is $7/month
4096      5500      1406         4096 - 1024 free = 3072. That's over 1024 & less than 4096, so the 4096 tier level is used @ $22/month
8192      8750      2812         8192 - 1024 free = 7168. That's over the 4096 level and less than the 8192, so the 8192 level is used @ $35/month
If you go to your dashboard, under Land Manager -> Land Use Fees you'll find a calculator that can give you the price you'd pay for any amount of land.

Second: I have no idea what the numbers mean for popular rentals. The number of prims shown for 4096 and 16384 are low, even for a homestead. Rent tends to be around L$1 per prim (LI) per week or L$4.33 per prim per month.

[Klytyna]

5 hours ago, ChoiceRider said:

lol, is this correct? If so, then why haven't I seen my weekly stipend?

I believe you are required to visit a special "Entitlement Club Stipend ATM" and collect it in person... On Tuesdays isn't it ?
 

[ChoiceRider]

Yes.. but I found it credited in "L$ Transaction History" every Tuesday with the full L$300 amount. look for "Source: Stipend Linden 
Stipend Base". This cuts down the Premium Membership to L$75 or 30 pennies per week!

Edited July 6, 2018 by ChoiceRider

[ChoiceRider]

40 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

First: Tier levels describe the monthly tier cost for square meters of land after subtracting free tier (the 1024 sqm). If you bought a 1040 sqm parcel, you'd pay $4 per month. The calculation is 1040 - 1024 = 16, which falls into the 512 sqm tier. If you bought a 1536 sqm parcel, you'd pay $4 per month, because the amount over 1024 is 512, which still fits in the 512 tier level. Therefore, the 2048/4096/8192 parcel sizes would be:
size        rent        prims
2048      1750       703          2048 - 1024 free = 1024, so the 1024 tier level is used, which is $7/month
4096      5500      1406         4096 - 1024 free = 3072. That's over 1024 & less than 4096, so the 4096 tier level is used @ $22/month
8192      8750      2812         8192 - 1024 free = 7168. That's over the 4096 level and less than the 8192, so the 8192 level is used @ $35/month
If you go to your dashboard, under Land Manager -> Land Use Fees you'll find a calculator that can give you the price you'd pay for any amount of land.

Second: I have no idea what the numbers mean for popular rentals. The number of prims shown for 4096 and 16384 are low, even for a homestead. Rent tends to be around L$1 per prim (LI) per week or L$4.33 per prim per month.

You draw a much finer point in your descriptions, many thanks..

[ChoiceRider]

I'm so grateful for all your inputs and exhaustive instructions. This has been a very rewarding learning experience. As you all could tell from the start, I was desperately confused by these issues. But lo and behold, I was rescued from the glaring ignorance I found myself in.

As for my friends who would like to purchase lands without a Premium Membership, I think it's been made clear, that the 30 pence per week investment, lol, represents a far better road to travel, being that it's been made so inexpensive with excellent benefits.

Edited July 6, 2018 by ChoiceRider