Jump to content
Naiman Broome

Will LL remove the 2.5% second fee on Merchants?

Recommended Posts

"they' started it, for sure, when you see how Klytyna responded to Naiman's initial post  on page 1, 4th from the bottom.

But, it does not have to continue.

Just put them on ignore, and the thread is free for anyone who wants to discuss the fee increases. Even if you think we're not considering LL's position enough I welcome your opinion...just don't start with the name-calling and insults.

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, look at the ones that have insulted us time after time, then claim we are doing it.  Let me name them this time:  Klytana, Alwin, and Solar.  All of you picking fights with us for some unknown reason.  I guess you have nothing else to do.  No one is threatening to leave.  It is simply one of the questions one must ask of themselves.  Can I afford to continue at this rate?  At what point do I resign and get another job, or take my money out of the stock market.  All simple, straightforward thought processes.  Giving us grief because we are concerned and making fun of us, everytime one of us makes a comment, that is what you call what you do?  It's like getting hauled on the carpet in the principal's office.  Just because you don't have a problem with the rate hikes doesn't mean that we are not allowed to worry.  Give it a rest already.

I am really tired of the snark.  The only thing you three do is tell us we're stupid for complaining.  You just keep pouring fuel on the fire that you are creating.  I believe, if anyone other than you three were to look at this thread, they would come to the same conclusion.  You are bullies, plain and simple.  I am leaving this thread now.  I simply forgot to turn off "Notify me of replies" or I wouldn't have felt the need to try to make you see what you are doing, but I forgot.  Bullies are always right.

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's an interesting fact, (and I hope Blush is still around to read this) in Sansar they introduced a Marketplace fee of $10 a month for anyone with more than 100 listings. Well, at that stage I had about 400 listings (since you couldn't list packs or groups of items). I didn't feel this was fair because 1. I didn't think I would always make $10 a month, and 2. I had already spent 6 months listing those items without being aware that a fee might come (work wasted).

I was very vocal about it, even appealing to LL, but I was told no. I also put up with many troll type responses on the chat site from those who weren't feeling the impact.

Many people (like me) just stopped listing new items, and of course walked away from Sansar.

Long story short - LL dropped the fee.

And this proves that some of the statements made here by the other side are just not true. 

Edited by Rya Nitely
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Rya Nitely said:

Here's an interesting fact, (and I hope Blush is still around to read this) in Sansar they introduced a Marketplace fee of $10 a month for anyone with more than 100 listings. Well, at that stage I had about 400 listings (since you couldn't list packs or groups of items). I didn't feel this was fair because 1. I didn't think I would always make $10 a month, and 2. I had already spent 6 months listing those items without being aware that a fee might come (work wasted).

I was very vocal about it, even appealing to LL, but I was told no. I also put up with many troll type responses on the chat site from those who weren't feeling the impact.

Many people (like me) just stopped listing new items, and of course walked away from Sansar.

Long story short - LL dropped the fee.

And this proves that some of the statements made here by the other side are just not true. 

That fee* was never implemented. They talked about it but after listening to us and taking into consideration what we had to say at a product meeting the idea was dropped, and to this date it has never been resurrected. You left too soon Rya. I've made a nice tidy little income over in Sansar for absolutely zero investment short of my time creating, which I consider time very well spent because I have learned so much from just being in Sansar and collaborating with the many talented creators there. I'm not sure how many (like you) left since the store has steadily grown through the months. I guess this just kind of shows that if you pull out someone will take your place.

But, as I said earlier, Linden Lab is going to do what is best for Linden Lab. Does that mean they will listen to their customers? Well of course they will. Does it mean they will bow down under pressure, not necessarily. We hire their service to further our goals to run our business. We decide our business model. If their service fits your plan, great, if not, then I guess you can try and see if there's something else out there that will work better for you. I sincerely doubt there is. Do I think loosing some of the creator base in SL will bring an end to SL? Absolutely not. Does Linden Lab want to see any creators leave SL, again absolutely not, but they can't please everyone all the time. It's impossible. So doing what's best for Linden Lab may not always be what's best for every mom and pop business in SL. Back in the old days my grandfather has a very successful business on the main highway running right through town. When traffic was diverted around town rather than through it with the new interstate his business died. Was the new interstate the best thing for his business? Nope, but it was the best thing for the town. The town flourished as a result of the new commerce. My grandfather decided to get out of the liquor business and opened a BBQ joint on the new interstate. He adapted. He flourished. But it took a change in plans. He had to find a new vision.

I agree these are trying times as Linden Lab tries to equalize the economy and take it from being a land based economy to a sales tax economy. I believe I will benefit more by getting on board and adapting rather than trying to fight the change.

*It wasn't a marketplace fee actually. It was proposed that to have more than 100 items in the store you would need to have the basic creator subscription, which is $10 a month. That fee includes additional experiences and support options. It was then decided that the number of store items would not be tied to a subscription package and that it would be unlimited for free accounts.

Edited by Blush Bravin
added a description of the actual fee
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

I agree these are trying times as Linden Lab tries to equalize the economy and take it from being a land based economy to a sales tax economy. I believe I will benefit more by getting on board and adapting rather than trying to fight the change.

what does that mean exactly? can you give a hint what kind of adaptation that would take? Do you mean that it will become more profitable to be a landlord, so this is what we should do if we want to keep making a living in SL - become a landlord? If so, not me, thanks. I am here only to create. I am not interested in "earning my living in SL" by whatever means. I only want to earn enough to sustain myself with what i love to do and what i am good at. If i cannot do that, there is nothing left for me here. I could have had a job in a gaming/advertisement industry that would pay 3x as much as i can earn in SL. I chose to stick with SL, for the freedom it offers me, freedom to create whatever i want exactly the way i want it, freedom to be own boss and decide for myself how i plan my day/week/year. The freedom is much more dear to me than the fat salary. Poor but free. But if i am not free anymore, if i cannot create, there is no point to be here, better to slave away in the office like everybody else does, at least you are always sure you will get paid enough...

And so, i don't want to have to leave. I will adapt within my interests, as i have done for all these years. I can only pray and hope that will be enough...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, if anybody cares to go to page 1 and scroll down to the 4th to the last post you can see where Klytyna attacked Naiman, accusing her of all sorts of unfounded stuff with some insane projections, and in a vicious manner.

Funny how those attacks are usually unfounded, unsubstantiated, but we have to accept them. Weird, eh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

Does that mean they will listen to their customers? Well of course they will. Does it mean they will bow down under pressure, not necessarily.

Listen yes, nobody is making them bow down under pressure, and I don't know where you get that from - nobody here has threatened to leave, I'm not leaving. Show me where I or anyone else is trying to make them bow down under pressure.

And the fee increases haven't been introduced here either - my point is clear.

If they are willing to listen then my point is, they are flexible enough to change a plan.

10 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

They talked about it but after listening to us and taking into consideration what we had to say at a product meeting the idea was dropped, and to this date it has never been resurrected.

so there you go

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Elvina Ewing said:
11 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

I agree these are trying times as Linden Lab tries to equalize the economy and take it from being a land based economy to a sales tax economy. I believe I will benefit more by getting on board and adapting rather than trying to fight the change.

what does that mean exactly? can you give a hint what kind of adaptation that would take? Do you mean that it will become more profitable to be a landlord, so this is what we should do if we want to keep making a living in SL - become a landlord?

I'd like to know too, You see, this is discussion :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

Listen yes, nobody is making them bow down under pressure, and I don't know where you get that from - nobody here has threatened to leave, I'm not leaving. Show me where I or anyone else is trying to make them bow down under pressure.

And the fee increases haven't been introduced here either - my point is clear.

If they are willing to listen then my point is, they are flexible enough to change a plan.

so there you go

My momma always told me, "If the shoe fits, wear it!" This goes here if you're not one of those who have indicated that they will leave if the fees go through then don't assume I'm pointing at you. But there have been a few cases where those indications were made. Do I think someone shouldn't say they will look elsewhere. No! We all have choices to make and plans to execute. Have I said you shouldn't voice your opinion to Linden Lab? Again, no I have not. What I objected to was the name calling and being uncivil to one another.

Do I think you'll get very far once voicing your objection to the fees? No, I don't think you will. And I have the right to my opinion. I've not once said you have no right to voice your concerns. In fact, in my first post in this thread I said quite the opposite and I quote, "All that said, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE should be able to voice their concern or disapproval without being accused of feeling entitled or of trolling. Can't we be adult here and stop the name calling?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Autumn Ehrenkranz said:

No one is threatening to leave.  It is simply one of the questions one must ask of themselves.  Can I afford to continue at this rate?  At what point do I resign and get another job, or take my money out of the stock market.  All simple, straightforward thought processes.  Giving us grief because we are concerned and making fun of us, everytime one of us makes a comment, that is what you call what you do?  It's like getting hauled on the carpet in the principal's office.  Just because you don't have a problem with the rate hikes doesn't mean that we are not allowed to worry.  Give it a rest already.

Blush I think Autumn put it very well here. This is all we were doing. Not threatening to leave or trying to make LL bow under pressure. So, I think it's just in the way something is expressed. saying it like 'if you think threatening to leave because you don't like Linden Lab's restructuring plans for their business model is going to impact their decision, you are fooling yourself. If you leave there will be others to take your place in a heartbeat.' I think it does tend to get people's back up, because it isn't what we were doing at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Elvina Ewing said:

what does that mean exactly? can you give a hint what kind of adaptation that would take? Do you mean that it will become more profitable to be a landlord, so this is what we should do if we want to keep making a living in SL - become a landlord? If so, not me, thanks. I am here only to create. I am not interested in "earning my living in SL" by whatever means. I only want to earn enough to sustain myself with what i love to do and what i am good at. If i cannot do that, there is nothing left for me here. I could have had a job in a gaming/advertisement industry that would pay 3x as much as i can earn in SL. I chose to stick with SL, for the freedom it offers me, freedom to create whatever i want exactly the way i want it, freedom to be own boss and decide for myself how i plan my day/week/year. The freedom is much more dear to me than the fat salary. Poor but free. But if i am not free anymore, if i cannot create, there is no point to be here, better to slave away in the office like everybody else does, at least you are always sure you will get paid enough...

And so, i don't want to have to leave. I will adapt within my interests, as i have done for all these years. I can only pray and hope that will be enough...

What I mean by that is if they put these new fees into effect you will have to adjust your business model. I'm not suggesting you change what you do. If you love creating then of course that's what you're going to do. If you love the land market then do that. It's our choice. The same as it's Linden Labs choice to do what they believe will further the success of Second Life. When my grandfather had to change his plan, he decided to open a restaurant. He made a change but not a radical one. He was still serving customers a product. The product changed because it's what he wanted to do. 

Personally I believe commerce will benefit by lower land costs. I think it might attract new people to Second Life so hopefully my customer base will grow. I might have to raise my prices some to cover the cost of the fees if they become too high. I'll have to wait and see how it goes. I don't buy Lindens but if I was one of those who do, I'd certainly make larger purchases rather than small ones. That's the kind of changes I'm talking about. It's just rethinking how to do things to get the same result you had before the changes occurred. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

Blush I think Autumn put it very well here. This is all we were doing. Not threatening to leave or trying to make LL bow under pressure. So, I think it's just in the way something is expressed. saying it like 'if you think threatening to leave because you don't like Linden Lab's restructuring plans for their business model is going to impact their decision, you are fooling yourself. If you leave there will be others to take your place in a heartbeat.' I think it does tend to get people's back up, because it isn't what we were doing at all.

After twenty years online, probably the biggest lesson I've learned is that oftentimes what you mean and how something is taken using the written word can be very misinterpreted. We can't see one's body language or hear the tone in their voice. So what I read and what you were actually saying could be different. I'm not going to go back and find all the instances where I read comments that sounded like, "if you make this change I'm going to pack up my toys and leave" comments. First because this thread is much too long, second I don't like calling out people by name in a public forum (I think it's uncivil), and third it's quite possible that what I read is not what they meant. 

The ONLY reason I posted in this thread in the first place was I was so dismayed with all the name calling and pointing fingers and downright rudeness. We should be able to be on completely opposite sides of the argument and still be respectful of each other.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually the pressure is coming from the Lab for like 6 years, continuously, without prior warning, most of the time.

as i said i wont repeat myself. read my first posts, the chronologic history (in the other topic), i resume all the TOS changes that ruined people and kicked them out of SL (not only creators, but buisnessmen, and also customers). Yes  plenty customers lost tons of money due to such changes.

At this point of constant fee changes, TOS changes, and buisness pattern change, we reach the absurd level.

 

@Blush Bravin   There have been 3 topics total in this forum section. This is the first one the trolls came to pollute it, naming and shaming creators freely and doing personal attacks. As you can see the two other topics have been totally normal, no flaming no toxicity.

 

 

 Iam very well aware that the decision has been made by probably both chairmans and executive from LL for financial reasons and that we will know the final decision on the ultimate moment as usual, this way we wont be able to react, just to suffer. Maybe even this 30% rumor is spread voluntary to make us accept lowers fees. tactics and rumors as always.

Tho, regarding all the previous episodes, all of this had to be written.

 

At least i cannot blame myself for not having tried everything. Because, yeah, iam blaming myself because i didnt react to the previous TOS changes and fee changes since 2012, that brought SL to this 2018 status.

 

In real life employees have rights, are defended by syndicates. customers have rights too. Unfortunatly on SL and those platforms (youtube, steam and so on) we are tools in the hands of the investors. Here you can lose all your buisness in 24h.

 as creator, if you dont want to gatherin order  to request at least infos, its your choice. You will probably  have to "adapt yourself" within 15 days, as usual. Good luck.

 

 

Edited by Majestic Kohime

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Majestic Kohime said:

In real life employees have rights, are defended by syndicates. Unfortunatly on SL and those platforms (youtube, steam and so on) we are tools in the hands of the investors.

 

 

 

We are not an employees. We have businesses in a community. In a community in RL businesses pay taxes. They pay rent for store space. They have what is called overhead. Economies change in RL .. they have to deal with inflation, market trends and so forth. It's called business. And running a successful business isn't easy. 

 

Edited by Blush Bravin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

I'm not going to go back and find all the instances where I read comments that sounded like, "if you make this change I'm going to pack up my toys and leave" comments

I did go back and search through all the posts, but found nothing. Perhaps you saw it somewhere else.

Maybe you did mean to say it in a polite way, and it would have been appropriate if someone had actually said ' Either you take away your fees or I will Leave'. This would be a threat, and silly.

But anyway, I thought your other post was helpful, and it was the way the thread should have gone. And I do agree that cheaper land may help the economy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...