Will LL remove the 2.5% second fee on Merchants?

[Klytyna]

27 minutes ago, Majestic Kohime said:

Congratz you had what you wanted since the beginning: ruining a discussion and avoiding the creators (you arent creator so basicly you arent concerned at all) to gather and to try to make hear their voice.

The Discussion...

OP: will LL remove the 2.5% cashout tax if i complain and threaten to sulk

Us: No...

OP's Friends: Why not?

Us: Because Business and Money

OP's Friends: But we'll sulk and might LEAVE!

Us: LL don't giv e a rat's backside, it's their way or the highway... Take it or leave it. You've been here long enough to know that already.

...

That's the discussion done. anything else is simply repetition.

As for me not being a "content creator, I was creating 3d content more than 14 years ago, and giving it away free, because I wasn't interested in signing up for a 50/50 split with an online broker. I make things in SL, for my self and friends, I just don't bother selling anything. That's MY choice.

And you? You're still whining about a 5% sales tax instead of 50% elsewhere...

45 minutes ago, Majestic Kohime said:

how could i leave since, as scripter ive already been killed by the 2014 TOS change.

45 minutes ago, Majestic Kohime said:

If you dont know about the 2014 Tos matter check my history message posts you will understand many things and the reason a lot of scripters left SL;

You're still whining about the need to regulate SL's gambling industry, to comply with American laws regarding gambling? About limitations and regulations on who can make licenced gambling machines, and who can own them and where? That were made FOUR years ago?

Good grief... If writing digital one arm bandits was that important to you, why didn't you apply for a licence...

Oddly, most scripters in SL did not and still do not write gambling machines, and were not affected at all by the 2014 "merchant scripter disaster", most never even noticed it.

In fact, you didn't quit in 2014 did you, you released 4 products in the last 3 years...

You STILL assume that your tiny niche market was the only thing that mattered in all SL...

"OH No! and end to unregulated gambling, SL is DOOMED! All the creators will leave!"

Sorry but SL barely noticed the hiccup.
 

[Solar Legion]

Being a Merchant - past or Present - is not a requirement system side for posting here. Deal with it or go make your own gated forum.

Klytyna has stated her reason for using bolded text elsewhere- eyesight.

Not every Merchant agrees with you - funny that. This means you speak only for yourselves. Hmm, also amusing.

It was quite clear some time ago that you do not want a discussion - you want people to agree with you and commiserate. Not gonna happen.

Anyway, have a good day.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Solar Legion

[Majestic Kohime]

Hahaha. very good one trolling. i have to say that this one called klytyna is the best one i found on those forums for years. hahaha

Since you are caricaturing everything, everyone it doesnt even worth to continue argumenting with you.

You are the hypocrisyx10000000 or maybe it is ignorance. Probably both

Now go back to your masters and tell them you have won and trolled enough to kill this thread.

 

 

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

All that said, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE should be able to voice their concern or disapproval without being accused of feeling entitled or of trolling. Can't we be adult here and stop the name calling?

Yes Blush, I feel like an adult has stepped into the room
Voicing concern or disapproval is not the same as a serious mental disorder where a person habitually evaluates life in a narcissitic fashion and never contemplates the other side when needs conflict.
The name calling has to stop...better to just say "I don't believe you are considering the other side here"...and then presenting your evidence.
 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Luna Bliss

[Majestic Kohime]

4 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Being a Merchant - past or Present - is not a requirement system side for posting here. deal with it or go make your own gated forum.

Klytyna has stated her reason for using bolded text elsewhere- eyesight.

Not every Merchant agrees with you - funny that. This means you speak only for yourselves. Hmm, also amusing.

It was quite clear some time ago that you do not want a discussion - you want people to agree with you and commiserate. Not gonna happen.

Anyway, have a good day.

yeah yeah nice one troll also, with all those smileys on every post criticizing LL decisions or disagreeing with, same answer for you as for klytyna

You wake up only now after having spammed like trillions smileys on forum posts? Did you feel that klytyna was spotted so she needed backup? hahah

 

Pathetic

 

Then who is next? Be creative

 

You hypocrisy makes me puke

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Majestic Kohime

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

Linden Lab is going to do what is best for Linden Lab, as well they should. It is a business and the bottom line is always the dollar. What is best for Linden Lab may or may not be what is best for your current business model. You will need to adapt or perish. It's as simple as that.

It's always best for the CORPORATION to take as much from workers as they can -- after all their profits increase this way. But is this fair to the workers, to be squeezed as far as possible? You know, I think instead of them saying "we'll make these changes slowly to see how the economy bears it", they should have said "we'll see how much we can squeeze the creators and get away with it". I suspect they just saw how other venues on the internet don't allow those using their services to get as much of a cut as we have here in SL, and so thought it only fair to increase their own profit.  However this could be a dangerous comparison for them, as there are unique differences between SL and many of these other venues.

Anyway, I think there's a better way to structure society in general...corporations should think about fairness between all instead of ONLY their profit. Yes, I'm a Democratic Socialist. And I expect more from LL...after all they're in San Francisco ;0

Now if LL truly needs this income lest they perish I'd be wholeheartedly behind them, but I'm not convinced this is the case. I might be talked into this viewpoint, but it's awfully difficult to see reality as we can never have all the facts needed to evaluate it clearly.

 

[Majestic Kohime]

Luna, Its over

 

we had the official answer and it was those whiteknight trolls;

 

now everything is clear about this whole matter

Edited July 2, 2018 by Majestic Kohime

[Solar Legion]

Nope - just felt that nothing needed to be said until now.

Calling those who disagree with you trolls is a well known forum tactic for attempting to stifle discussion or shame those who've disagreed with you into utter silence.

It does not always work and can backfire.

Again, want a place where only Merchants - past or present - can post? Make it yourself.

Want people to mindlessly agree with you? Not going to happen here or anywhere that you do not have direct control.

Done?

Doesn't matter - not worth responding further. Not until leveler heads prevail anyway.

Have a nice day.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Majestic Kohime said:

Luna, Its over

 

we had the official answer and it was those whiteknight trolls;

 

now everything is clear about this matter

Just put them on Ignore as I have done.

If they had ever shown they considered our side I would still listen to them, but they only see their side and want to call us names.

Better to listen to those (even if differing from our opinions) who don't get-off on trashing others.

[Luna Bliss]

5 hours ago, iamyourneighbour said:

sucks for creators, landlord and the like I know

thanks for acknowledging the pain it could cause us...

[Autumn Ehrenkranz]

I am disgusted by the name calling and viciousness from all of those who call us whiners for simply talking about what this might do to us.  We have a right to have a conversation without a bunch of critics giving us crap for discussing this.  It is not much different from a group of people who have invested time and money into a breedable market and are watching the trends to decide if the market is going to collapse.  Pretty much the same as real life, imho.

You sound like the CEOs of companies that pay their workers minimum wage, while paying themselves millions.  You can think of us as a union discussing the ramifications of a new edict.

I have not called you names, but you have no problem doing so to me.  We try to discuss, you attack. We never asked you to agree with us.  Thank you for listening to our thoughts and fears.  We'll see you at the table.  

Oh, by the way, I think it's a great idea to have a private group to discuss our concerns and what we should do.  Thanks for the suggestion.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Solar Legion said:

It was quite clear some time ago that you do not want a discussion - you want people to agree with you and commiserate. Not gonna happen.

Anyone that disagrees with Klytina is an idiot. Obviously! Because reasons, in bold. Aren't forums fun? 

[Autumn Ehrenkranz]

Yes, I am now reminded why not to join in forum discussions.

[Solar Legion]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Anyone that disagrees with Klytina is an idiot. Obviously! Because reasons, in bold. Aren't forums fun? 

Not what was said - at all.

[Solar Legion]

6 minutes ago, Autumn Ehrenkranz said:

Yes, I am now reminded why not to join in forum discussions.

To have a discussion, both sides need to be open to and capable of reading, comprehending and understanding the other's viewpoints. This means not taking one's personal situation as an example of the norm or of "The One Truth" - that gets nothing but the exact same back and rightly so.

The last page or more has been one small group of Merchants pretending their situation is the only one that matters - that their side/story is the only one. It does not matter how they meant it, that is exactly how it was presented when one examines the words chosen.

When called out on it they doubled down, started calling anyone that did not agree with them a troll (among other tactics) and made it very clear that a discussion is not what was being sought.

Speaking only for myself: That is part of the reason why my extremely brief foray into selling and/or managing a store ended mere months after it began (several years ago) and why the only things I bothered to offer for a time were freebie items which amounted to preassembled, useful scripts/gadgets.

The absolute loudest "voices" were the sort not looking for discussion on how to make things better for everyone but simply for them.

Some of these have made the mistake of putting all or most of their eggs into the basket that is Second Life. As bad as the response has been here, when there has been little more than mere suggestion, imagine how nuclear some will go when Second Life finally closes and they find out that no, they cannot demand Linden Lab convert their remaining L$ balances over and pay them. This prospect alone terrifies some - and rightfully so.

Point blank: If you're relying on Second Life for any part of your Income - find something else.

[Majestic Kohime]

55 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

To have a discussion, both sides need to be open to and capable of reading, comprehending and understanding the other's viewpoints. This means not taking one's personal situation as an example of the norm or of "The One Truth" - that gets nothing but the exact same back and rightly so.

The last page or more has been one small group of Merchants pretending their situation is the only one that matters - that their side/story is the only one. It does not matter how they meant it, that is exactly how it was presented when one examines the words chosen.

When called out on it they doubled down, started calling anyone that did not agree with them a troll (among other tactics) and made it very clear that a discussion is not what was being sought.

Speaking only for myself: That is part of the reason why my extremely brief foray into selling and/or managing a store ended mere months after it began (several years ago) and why the only things I bothered to offer for a time were freebie items which amounted to preassembled, useful scripts/gadgets.

The absolute loudest "voices" were the sort not looking for discussion on how to make things better for everyone but simply for them.

Some of these have made the mistake of putting all or most of their eggs into the basket that is Second Life. As bad as the response has been here, when there has been little more than mere suggestion, imagine how nuclear some will go when Second Life finally closes and they find out that no, they cannot demand Linden Lab convert their remaining L$ balances over and pay them. This prospect alone terrifies some - and rightfully so.

Point blank: If you're relying on Second Life for any part of your Income - find something else.

I wont let such hypocrisy as conclusion

If you were totally honest (which obviously isnt your main quality) you would have noticed the ttoxicity of klytyna since page 1 and that it took something like 4 pages for us to finally react or mute, and that everyone muted her in the end.

So, after a global muting here comes solar legion and the show must go on. coincidence?

 

 all the creators that have been attacked by klytyna toxicity (i see 4-5 under attack, without any logic reason in this topic) gave up already and the topic will be killed, as planned.

If you were totally honest you would have noticed that the first one under attack has been  the OP and the OP has directly been shocked by such trolling attitude from klytyna towards him so he gave up./

 

The ONLY fact that klytyna is allowed to post such virulent attacks towards all those people most of them are well known in SL for years is a mystery. We are talking about 2000 bold posts of attacks in one year.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Majestic Kohime

[Autumn Ehrenkranz]

Yes, the possibility of Second Life closing terrifies me, but not because it is a full-time business for me. It is not. What scares me is losing the friends I have made and the ability to be part of a community when I have none in RL.  My fear of these fee increases is that they do point to SL closing its doors.  In 2017, there were many more people aghast at the rate of increase of the fees.  It was already known that these changes were going to happen.  As was mentioned then, it looks as though the Lindens are having financial troubles due to the creation of Sansar.  They appear to be trying to shore up the newer project by adding fees to the merchants of all types in SL.

I also noted what Majestic just wrote.  Once one heckler stopped, another one started.  Nothing of substance to the question was added by these people.  Just a general, shut up and deal with it attitude, which is not helpful whatsoever.  All the merchants have gotten, no matter who there were, were abused.  Majestic is also right that the troll calling did not start until fellow merchants got fed up with the abuse.  Again, a private group to discuss the difficulties marketers are having with these rising fees, and whether this is a signal to get out now, would be ideal.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Autumn Ehrenkranz

[Solar Legion]

And here comes another oft used tactic - conspiracy theories.

Another reason why no discussion could properly take place - people too often jump to this sort of conclusion when there are those who disagree with them.

Two of the many reasons I do not often post in threads like this and simply use the reaction buttons.

[Alwin Alcott]

45 minutes ago, Autumn Ehrenkranz said:

 All the merchants have gotten, no matter who there were, was abuse.

So true... and so innocent themselves.. no personal attacks or insinuations at all...

 

[Elvina Ewing]

6 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

If you think threatening to leave because you don't like Linden Lab's restructuring plans for their business model is going to impact their decision, you are fooling yourself. If you leave there will be others to take your place in a heartbeat.

could you please point to the post where anybody has threatened to leave. Thank you.

3 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

To have a discussion, both sides need to be open to and capable of reading, comprehending and understanding the other's viewpoints. This means not taking one's personal situation as an example of the norm or of "The One Truth" - that gets nothing but the exact same back and rightly so.

you are totally describing klytyna now, aren't you

3 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

The absolute loudest "voices" were the sort not looking for discussion on how to make things better for everyone but simply for them.

the absolute loudest voices here were definitely not looking for discussion on how to make things better. Period. Or even, the absolute loudest voices here were definitely not looking for discussion.

4 hours ago, Majestic Kohime said:

Luna, Its over

come on, it doesn't have to be over. We are all still here, we can continue discussing whatever we want and ignore the vile ones. You shouldn't have let klyt upset you so much. That person clearly is delusional because she sees many things that aren't there and then assumes that is the only One and Universal Truth. It is absolutely useless to argue with someone like that. You have wasted a lot of time replying to her. What i think all concerned people in this thread should do, is to report Klytyna on this forum. I don't know how exactly to do that yet, i see how to report a post, but i think what we need to do is to report the person in question, not just her single posts. If everybody who clicked Ignore this user on her also reports her, maybe Dakota Linden (or some other Linden) will at least give her a warning. This vile and nasty insulting should really stop.

[Alwin Alcott]

16 minutes ago, Elvina Ewing said:

vile and nasty insulting

calling for a collective reporting isn't ?... 

First claiming you muted all the ones that disagreed with your delusion, but suddenly you feel you have to pull the pitchforks and want to lynch somebody... never seen such bad loser.

 

[Elvina Ewing]

Alwin, please point me to exactly where i have claimed that i muted anyone. Thank you.

Also, will you please stop repeating the exact same words i use and bounce them back to me? like you are playing ping pong. You are not 8 y.o are you. If you want to say the same thing about me, at least find a synonym so that it doesn't look so childish and random...

Now to the point: There seem to be a lot of people quite hurt by Klytyna's insults, and it looks like more than one person has put her on ignore. It isn't right that someone gets away with such toxic behaviour. I'd say, it isn't exactly undeserved now is it, or are you claiming she is innocent?

 

 

[Klytyna]

5 hours ago, Majestic Kohime said:

If you were totally honest (which obviously isnt your main quality) you would have noticed the ttoxicity of klytyna since page 1

I joined the thread on PAGE TWO in earnest, with a post outlining that businesses have COSTS, and assuming your SL business won't have costs and shouldn't have costs is... Foolish...

Page ONE was simply a reaction to the idea that EVERYONE except the OP should pay "SL Taxes", an idea they have expressed before in other threads.
 

5 hours ago, Majestic Kohime said:

and that everyone muted her in the end.

Luna claimed to have muted me last year, but she seems to have responded directly so several of my posts, so it seems she didn't. Love has claimed to have muted me 3 times? And always announces it, probably as some kind of attempt to make me angry or upset. Doesn't work.

5 hours ago, Majestic Kohime said:

So, after a global muting here comes solar legion and the show must go on. coincidence?

So now Solar and I are part of a conspiracy, and probably alts of each other. Hah!

I'm not sure if I should report you for insulting me with that claim or if Solar should report you for it, or both...

5 hours ago, Majestic Kohime said:

If you were totally honest you would have noticed that the first one under attack has been  the OP and the OP has directly been shocked by such trolling attitude from klytyna towards him so he gave up./

If you were honest, you'd have checked the OP's posting history recently, including the post where they deliberately broke the "no self promotion" rule in a forum to advertise their product showroom sim, despite a clear statement of the rules by a Linden forbidding that practice, then claimed innocence,  Posting history is important.

Checking other peoples posting histories, theres somebody who had major input in a thread titled "The Customer is ALWAYS wrong".

5 hours ago, Majestic Kohime said:

The ONLY fact that klytyna is allowed to post such virulent attacks towards all those people most of them are well known in SL for years is a mystery. We are talking about 2000 bold posts of attacks in one year.

See the other number over there?

<-----------------

The one for likes etc.? The one that's at nearly 2300...

Wait... Let me guess, you'll claim those are all from my fellow alts in LL's official undercover employee troll program, right?

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Klytyna

[Luna Bliss]

4 hours ago, Autumn Ehrenkranz said:

Yes, the possibility of Second Life closing terrifies me, but not because it is a full-time business for me. It is not. What scares me is losing the friends I have made and the ability to be part of a community when I have none in RL

There's no way I can know for sure, of course, but I doubt SL is going to close any time soon. They're still getting a lot of money from all the people renting sims, so that seems to be a bit of a guarantee.

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Elvina Ewing said:

Now to the point: There seem to be a lot of people quite hurt by Klytyna's insults, and it looks like more than one person has put her on ignore. It isn't right that someone gets away with such toxic behaviour. I'd say, it isn't exactly undeserved now is it, or are you claiming she is innocent?

Yes, if anybody cares to go to page 1 and scroll down to the 4th to the last post you can see where Klytyna attacked Naiman, accusing her of all sorts of unfounded stuff with some insane projections, and in a vicious manner.