Jump to content

Will LL remove the 2.5% second fee on Merchants?


You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 1015 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Recommended Posts

I am long time here in SL but since the last fee adoption when withdrawing money that changed from a cost fix of about 5 to 15 usd to a 2.5% unlimited on the whole sum...

I am wondering, why LL takes three times the fees?

First they take when you sell a product on market for example ( ok this might pay for the market costs )

Then They take when you convert LL to USD ( ok this might pay for the other costs and its a % of the total )

Then They take when you withdraw USD . ( another % of the total )

I guess with the first and second they are paying services ( like if rents were not enough )

with the third? This for some reason I really can't stand and feel like an abuse on creators.

So any chance that they will remove that abusive tertiary tax ? Eventually under merchant request?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 140
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

*admires the self enhancing effect of information bubbles in peer groups at work in this thread*

The thing that some people don't seem to want to acknowledge is that, even in rl, when a fee is raised by a high percentage again and again over a short period of time (and even over a long period), t

Does it mean you have to be so damned nasty all the time??? I know you like to think of yourself as Cynic, but what you are is just downright RUDE. You will teach nobody nothing with a vile condescend

Posted Images

The Lab have said they feel landowners have been paying too much, and so as a general direction they want to shift fees away from Teir. To counter this they have been increasing fees in other places. 

Making land cheaper helps more people own land. More people owning land helps all creators. H&G directly, and fashion indirectly. People with land are more tied to the game.

 

Edited by Callum Meriman
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Naiman Broome said:

So any chance that they will remove that abusive tertiary tax ?

you don't like it doesn't mean it's abusive ( and seems to be your main subject to talk about fees)
they'r likely going to raise it even more  to compensate for the loss/lower income they make on the lowered land tiers.
From a landbased economy we seem to go to a consumers tax system.. brace yourself for more to come.

  • Like 2
  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Elvina Ewing said:

because they can.

and don't forget... in rl, you even pay a lot more, because government added VAT to nearly all consumers products, LL only uses it on the landholdings.

but for merchants a roaming rate, compared to VAT, of 17%  to 27% ( rates in europe now) at MP would be perhaps a idea to stop the exchange fees.?.. thats how it works in rl..( lets not say it to loud or they get ideas)

It's really not that bad in SL yet for somebody who earns money and wants to transfer it to rl.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

and don't forget... in rl, you even pay a lot more, because government added VAT to nearly all consumers products, LL only uses it on the landholdings.

but for merchants a roaming rate, compared to VAT, of 17%  to 27% ( rates in europe now) at MP would be perhaps a idea to stop the exchange fees.?.. thats how it works in rl..( lets not say it to loud or they get ideas)

It's really not that bad in SL yet for somebody who earns money and wants to transfer it to rl.

Well since that "new tax" has been mentioned many times now in official interviews we know that Marketplace fees are going up, most likely a lot.  I have never EVER heard anything that leads me to believe the cash out fees will be going down. 

The  advantage to the previous method (with a cap not the $1 US oldest fee) for The Lab was that some creators held onto their lindens longer making LL the "bank" in some sense and so there was a bit less money flowing out. But that can only be an advantage for awhile and then that money starts leaving regularly again, just in larger chunks.  So I really can't see any rollback.  Along with fee changes mentioned in those official talks have been hints of yet another increase in cash outs.

We also know that at this point an increase in the Premium fee will be going up with additional "premium premium" level(s) added. At the same time since LL is making these changes slowly and over months and years THEIR current plans could easily get shifted and we may have some surprises in store. 

More land impact per land mass (Patch in SL15B interview) is a positive step. It "could" along with the new land impact calculation rules lead to the phasing out of some badly made mesh -- much like a lot of sculpt products have disappeared over the years. 

The Lab has made it crystal clear for some time now that it is shifting away from a "property tax" mode to a "sales tax" and fees structure in order to lower land costs.  Its good really -- in my mind anyway -- that they are warning us now (well, those paying attention and listening) rather than dropping changes on us unexpected.  It gives us time to think and plan and make business decisions. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

What if....
They were charging too much for land all along.
If so, this 'balancing theory' of getting more from creators to make up for less income through land would be a ruse.

What if...
Comparisons between taxes in RL don't hold for a fantasy land where there are no price controls for merchandise.
If so, comparisons between SL & RL don't hold.

Chic, what if I said I was going to punch you in the noggin and told you to feel good about it because I'm giving you time to prepare?

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well to increase the fees to merchants for making more profitable landlords , doesnt' seem correct to me , that way people should turn all into landlords and less make content ... and I  think content is what drives the economy before land !

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Naiman Broome said:

Well to increase the fees to merchants for making more profitable landlords

Looking in the rental area of the forums, seems many landlords have dropped their homstead prices already, L$500 a week extra to spend on H&G things like waves.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

you don't like it doesn't mean it's abusive ( and seems to be your main subject to talk about fees)
they'r likely going to raise it even more  to compensate for the loss/lower income they make on the lowered land tiers.
From a landbased economy we seem to go to a consumers tax system.. brace yourself for more to come.

YEs I have actually been totally hit by that change couse I am an EU Citizen and I get even another huge fee by paypal 3.5 % on changes ...

 

SO you get

1 fees from merchant sale

2 fees on lindens exchange

3 fees on retiring usd

4 paypal conversion fees,

 

so if for example I had 250000 ll of sales ,

1 are 1000 usd

2 become 965 usd after second fees

3 become 940 usd 2.5% withdrawal fee

4 become 907  usd 3.5% Paypal conversion fee

 

total loss of 93 usd .

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

Looking in the rental area of the forums, seems many landlords have dropped their homstead prices already, L$500 a week extra to spend on H&G things like waves.

"waves"  (and other H&G content) are copyable and so landlords would not need to buy more.

Also, while it's a bit too soon to tell I have not heard of one merchant revealing an increase in income :(

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Naiman Broome said:

YEs I have actually been totally hit by that change couse I am an EU Citizen and I get even another huge fee by paypal 3.5 % on changes ...

 

SO you get

1 fees from merchant sale

2 fees on lindens exchange

3 fees on retiring usd

4 paypal conversion fees,

 

so if for example I had 250000 ll of sales ,

1 are 1000 usd

2 become 965 usd after second fees

3 become 940 usd 2.5% withdrawal fee

4 become 907  usd 3.5% Paypal conversion fee

 

total loss of 93 usd .

If you're considering your business as starting at in-world sales and in-world credit rather than starting when your activity is finally converted into real-world currency, are you:

1) Reporting the total of in-world "sales" on your taxes?

And

2) Collecting and keeping track of the VAT for all of your "customers" in various countries? (Oh, and now you'll have to keep track of sales taxes for most states in the United States too.)

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

If you're considering your business as starting at in-world sales and in-world credit rather than starting when your activity is finally converted into real-world currency, are you:

1) Reporting the total of in-world "sales" on your taxes?

And

2) Collecting and keeping track of the VAT for all of your "customers" in various countries? (Oh, and now you'll have to keep track of sales taxes for most states in the United States too.)

I pay also VAT of 25% for land rental .

Edited by Naiman Broome
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Naiman Broome said:

I pay also VAT of 25% for land rental .

In other words, you're not doing and don't have to do the other things I mentioned that would be far more complicated than your single relationship with Linden Lab which you'd have to be doing if your "business" was considered to be the in-world transactions.

Link to post
Share on other sites

to make the long story short: LL CAN charge, and WILL charge us, whatever they want. Nothing anybody of us can do about it, other than suck it up. Or leave. Eventually all of us making a sole RL living here in SL will need to consider returning to other, RL means to earn money. Everything comes to an end, it's been 10 Golden years (for me) here, i have made peace with the fact that it couldn't have lasted forever. It was too good to be true to begin with, yet it lasted 10 wonderful years. I thank LL from the bottom of my heart for providing me this amazing chance.

Personally I will  stay until i hit a certain low monthly number. Then i will wait another few months for it to get better. When it doesn't i will call it quits. The question is not IF it will happen but WHEN it will happen. I just hope there are still a few years left for me here...

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

"waves"  (and other H&G content) are copyable and so landlords would not need to buy more.

I was thinking more of normal people who rent a homestead - some of the bigger customers of the H&G shops. They now get extra to spend. No?

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Elvina Ewing said:

to make the long story short: LL CAN charge, and WILL charge us, whatever they want. Nothing anybody of us can do about it, other than suck it up. Or leave. Eventually all of us making a sole RL living here in SL will need to consider returning to other, RL means to earn money. Everything comes to an end, it's been 10 Golden years (for me) here, i have made peace with the fact that it couldn't have lasted forever. It was too good to be true to begin with, yet it lasted 10 wonderful years. I thank LL from the bottom of my heart for providing me this amazing chance.

Personally I will  stay until i hit a certain low monthly number. Then i will wait another few months for it to get better. When it doesn't i will call it quits. The question is not IF it will happen but WHEN it will happen. I just hope there are still a few years left for me here...

I feel it, once it will not be worth to stay LL will loose all its talented creators and remain with a lot of fees to be charged on other residents.

Edited by Naiman Broome
  • Sad 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Naiman Broome said:

I feel it, once it will not be worth to stay LL will loose all its talented creators and remain with a lot of fees to be charged on other residents.

And they will move on to other platforms that take 2 digit percentages out of their earnings ... or maybe they won't ...

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:
1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

"waves"  (and other H&G content) are copyable and so landlords would not need to buy more.

I was thinking more of normal people who rent a homestead - some of the bigger customers of the H&G shops. They now get extra to spend. No?

They would have more money by spending less on land costs, true....but would they necessarily spend more on content? Perhaps they would just save the money or spend it in RL.

LL has framed the debate here or created the format for us to think about the problem (that lower land costs translates into more money spent on content, and that the only solution they have to increase their own revenue to charge land owners less and content creators more). They even blame the supposedly needed change on us, saying we were always complaining that land costs too much.
 
It's always unwise to let others frame a debate (especially those with more power or the greatest chance to benefit from perceiving the issues on their terms) -- not because they are necessarily some evil corporation, but because everyone tends to lack empathy for the other side, and so with the greater power/influence they slant the debate their way.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

And they will move on to other platforms that take 2 digit percentages out of their earnings ... or maybe they won't ...

it's not about the percentages. It's about the amount left over *after* the said percentages have been taken. If there is any platform that can earn me a RL living like SL has been all these years i would gladly move there. There WAS at least one such (SL). There might very well be none such left soon enough.

Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Elvina Ewing said:

I thank LL from the bottom of my heart for providing me this amazing chance.

I do too, feel appreciative and thankful to LL.

Yet what they plan to do might cause me to leave (by not making it affordable for me to stay here).

It's kind of crazymaking, this gift and the taking away of it at the same time.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Naiman Broome said:

I am long time here in SL but since the last fee adoption when withdrawing money that changed from a cost fix of about 5 to 15 usd to a 2.5% unlimited on the whole sum...

I am wondering, why LL takes three times the fees?

First they take when you sell a product on market for example ( ok this might pay for the market costs )

Then They take when you convert LL to USD ( ok this might pay for the other costs and its a % of the total )

Then They take when you withdraw USD . ( another % of the total )

I guess with the first and second they are paying services ( like if rents were not enough )

with the third? This for some reason I really can't stand and feel like an abuse on creators.

So any chance that they will remove that abusive tertiary tax ? Eventually under merchant request?

Would you like some HARD CHEESE with your whine?

Second Wave Lastnamer Entitlement Syndrome ridea again...

You whine about how they tax you on MP sales... If they abolished MP sales tax, would your 100 L$ products suddenly cost only 95 L$ or would you simply keep the 5 L$ for your self?

46 minutes ago, Naiman Broome said:

with a lot of fees to be charged on other residents.

Yeah you'd keep it for your self...

You whine about how they make you pay Lindex transaction charges JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE who sells or BUYS linden on the exchange, and your business would be pretty well screwed if nobody bought linden, right? If they abolished YOUR Lindex fees would you reduce prices or keep it all for your self?

49 minutes ago, Naiman Broome said:

with a lot of fees to be charged on other residents.

Yeah you'd keep it for your self...

You whine about cashout fees, but if they abolished those, would you pass the savings along to your customers to boost sales, or just keep it all for your self?

51 minutes ago, Naiman Broome said:

with a lot of fees to be charged on other residents.

Yeah you'd keep it all for your self...

I'm sensing a pattern here...

You whine about paying for land for your store, but in order to lower Tier/Rents, they HAVE to replace the lost income somehow, and that means charging it elsewhere. 

So, you want cheaper land for your store, but you don't want sales tax on goods, lindex fees or cashout fees. So where DO you think they should get the money to keep the Grid running?

Can I guess?

Maybe you feel SL should charge shoppers a special "Visiting the inworld Stores of Whiny 2nd Wave Merchants" Tax, or perhaps a special "Not having Naiman's stuff in your inventory" Tax, or a "Not being Eurotalian" Tax, or a "Having a last name that is Resident" Tax...

You seem to think EVERYONE should pay EXCEPT YOU, because you are SPECIAL.

All of your recent threads have been "Whine Whine LL are STEALING mah FREE MONEY what I am Entitled to for being online"

No... LL are NOT going to abolish all "SL Taxes" on people called "Naiman Broome" just because some "Merchants" complain.

Have some parmesan to go with that whine. Cheaper land is supposed to mean MORE people with a need to buy your "build a beach" kits.
 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

They would have more money by spending less on land costs, true....but would they necessarily spend more on content? Perhaps they would just save the money or spend it in RL.

LL has framed the debate here or created the format for us to think about the problem (that lower land costs translates into more money spent on content, and that the only solution they have to increase their own revenue to charge land owners less and content creators more). They even blame the supposedly needed change on us, saying we were always complaining that land costs too much.
 
It's always unwise to let others frame a debate (especially those with more power or the greatest chance to benefit from perceiving the issues on their terms) -- not because they are necessarily some evil corporation, but because everyone tends to lack empathy for the other side, and so with the greater power/influence they slant the debate their way.

Well I upkeep a public park for everyone to see and visit for free , yet it has costs !

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Would you like some HARD CHEESE with your whine?

Second Wave Lastnamer Entitlement Syndrome ridea again...

You whine about how they tax you on MP sales... If they abolished MP sales tax, would your 100 L$ products suddenly cost only 95 L$ or would you simply keep the 5 L$ for your self?

Yeah you'd keep it for your self...

You whine about how they make you pay Lindex transaction charges JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE who sells or BUYS linden on the exchange, and your business would be pretty well screwed if nobody bought linden, right? If they abolished YOUR Lindex fees would you reduce prices or keep it all for your self?

Yeah you'd keep it for your self...

You whine about cashout fees, but if they abolished those, would you pass the savings along to your customers to boost sales, or just keep it all for your self?

Yeah you'd keep it all for your self...

I'm sensing a pattern here...

You whine about paying for land for your store, but in order to lower Tier/Rents, they HAVE to replace the lost income somehow, and that means charging it elsewhere. 

So, you want cheaper land for your store, but you don't want sales tax on goods, lindex fees or cashout fees. So where DO you think they should get the money to keep the Grid running?

Can I guess?

Maybe you feel SL should charge shoppers a special "Visiting the inworld Stores of Whiny 2nd Wave Merchants" Tax, or perhaps a special "Not having Naiman's stuff in your inventory" Tax, or a "Not being Eurotalian" Tax, or a "Having a last name that is Resident" Tax...

You seem to think EVERYONE should pay EXCEPT YOU, because you are SPECIAL.

All of your recent threads have been "Whine Whine LL are STEALING mah FREE MONEY what I am Entitled to for being online"

No... LL are NOT going to abolish all "SL Taxes" on people called "Naiman Broome" just because some "Merchants" complain.

Have some parmesan to go with that whine. Cheaper land is supposed to mean MORE people with a need to buy your "build a beach" kits.
 

Excuse me but I think  you could express yourself in a less arrogant and trolling attitude , as I do not really recognize in your description nor I did say or write the things you affirm neither I have insulted you or attacked you in any way.

Edited by Naiman Broome
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 1015 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...