Will LL remove the 2.5% second fee on Merchants?

[Chic Aeon]

For the record, most folks here know I make Home and Garden --- houses,  skyboxes, furniture etc. Aside from the surrounds which come in various sizes and DID have to be made by hand (prim), 98 percent of the rest are all individual items. I don't put everything up on the Marketplace, just the bigger or more unusual niche items.  I work a 40 hour week in SL and produce a lot. 

You seem to have a lot of interest in lumping all creators together. That is definitely not the case in reality, but if it makes you happy -- then it does. I agree that this thread has run it's purpose.

And the simple answer to your original question is:

NO

[ellestones]

3 hours ago, Elvina Ewing said:

What i think would have been a much better system and much fair to everybody, is to look at each item/listing individually, regardless of the brand/shop. It would count how many copies of each item has been sold in a certain amount of time (say, 10 copies per day, 100 per week, you name it). The higher the number, the higher the tax/fee on this particular item. Basically, the Best Selling items would be ones with the highest fees. Also, it would be fair if this per-item-tax would be dynamic and would also work backwards, so when an item is best selling the tax on it would go up, and if the same item doesn't sell in a while, the tax on it would go down. Would that work?

this would require a rule disallowing the ability to relist a product

[Rya Nitely]

2 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

I agree that this thread has run it's purpose.

But but wait, there are people who are obviously enjoying it. Take Alwin for instance, what else would he have to do? And then there is Solar Legion having a good old laugh. And then there are the ones who just want to talk about it in a clique of like minded individuals, feeling the love and support. And you want to spoil it all, telling us to stop it, like some old school teacher.

[Pamela Galli]

15 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

like some old school teacher.

Excuse me?

[Klytyna]

16 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

YOU excist by permission of your customers..never forget that.

Again, come off your throne and start walking in real.

Wasting your breath Alwin, as far as the members of this Entitlement Clique are concerned, if you are not a little leaque merchant with a 10 year track record of falling sales of old products, you just don't count...

They don't see "non merchants" as people, they think if you don't do what they do, you don't exist.

They fail the most basic test of being business people...

"What is a Merchant with no customers... Nothing... "

For them the customer is always wrong., for them customers are unimportant, which is why so many of SL's more constant "Merchant Whine" types are "Creators" who haven't created an actual new original upto-date item in 10 years, or who have business plans more than 10 years old, like that fool with the 10 year old system avi stripper bot.

And when todays potential customers walk past their stores without buying, they blame everyone but themselves and their content.

Remember that one of the more prominent Mercantile Whiners in this thread was also the main force behind a thread called "The customer is always wrong..."

17 hours ago, Elvina Ewing said:

it's idiocy that people who are no SL merchants themselves (are trying to) preach on MERCHANTS forum to the actual SL merchants. No, your input here is indeed much less relevant than you obviously would have liked because you cannot know what it's like to be in our shoes because you are not one of us.

You accuse me of being rude, because I won't suck up to your "Faux-Tycoon Wannabe" ego, but the reality is simple, you are only a Merchant, as long as you have customers, and if you consistently act in this way towards potential customers, pretty soon you won't HAVE any.

Without customers you are NOTHING, if you leave others will replace you, probably with newer and better products, less hide-bound and with more attention to the wants and needs of the customers who PAY for your pretentions.

And they wonder why "non-merchants" don't share their opinions.

16 hours ago, Rya Nitely said:

I wonder if these fee defenders have ever thought that this might have something to do with it. Where did/does the money to support Sansar come from?

If you focused less on your own self centered greed and entitlement, you'd have noticed that I am one of the Forums most vociferous opponents of the 4 years of epic waste in the white-elephant money-pit that is Project Stupid.

That's part of the problem isn't it...

4 Years ago, somebody decided to let SL rot, because Project Stupid would happen "any year now" and would make a crap ton of money and save the company...

Only it didn't and won't...

So now it's Plan B, save the company by saving SL, and they have come up with schemes to change the way they gather revenue. they will not, in all probability, change that plan until it fails catastrophically enough to force a change in the Glorious Leader, and the NEW Glorious Leader calls for a NEW Plan A.

That's how Executive Politics works. So, Fees are here to stay. It's not about "defending fees" and it's certainly not about "Loving fees", it's about being smart enough to understand how their game is played.

They are moving from land revenue to MP Tax/Lindex Fees/Cashout Fees/Micro Transaction Service Charges.

Learn to deal with that or walk away...
 

[Majestic Kohime]

@CoyoteMage iam very far to pull everyone in same category when i say that, i target specifically something like 10 shops (thats would be something like 50k+ products overall) mainly, all recent, all having gigantic amount of products, and most of their products are like "the product" uploaded from 5 to 20 times cause of that behavior i mentionned previous post. Or abusing with 1000 approx demo products (while they should do one texture demo hud)

At the magicbox era we didnt have to deal with such behavior. And we didnt have to deal with such big shops, they didnt exist, those guys came like 4-5 years ago from nowhere, and took at least a monopoly in clothes creation.

So far absolutly no creator in this topic was concerned by my comment. I invite you to go check in some of those 8000 products shops, sometime same item is listed up to 30 times (just for a color texture changing).

Dont you think this behavior absuive and can be responsible of the whole marketplace search result saturation? Thats why i mentionned a progressive fee, because technically a major part of Sl creators plays fairplay, and some others abuse the new marketplace system in order to get more visibility.

 

@Klytyna Ok, you are making sense by the end of your post. Tho, without more informations, and with this 30% rumor spreading constantly, the creators get nervous. It would be clever that LL at least announces "estimations" of their plans. To clean or confirm all rumors. We are just few informed people for now.

Dont you think that if LL  adds (for example) something like 5% and warns just 1 month before adding this,

you may have to deal on those forums not with the 10creators from this topic but rather with 1000's creators"whining in situ"?

If we cant change the plan, people should be informed about an estimation of it at least, and at least 6 monthes before it happens.

 

 

Edited July 1, 2018 by Majestic Kohime

[Klytyna]

1 hour ago, Majestic Kohime said:

you may have to deal on those forums not with the 10creators from this topic but rather with 1000's creators"whining in situ"?

You kind of missed the point about the new way of making money for LL...

Small Merchants are no longer important... There's more than enough content already to keep shoppers going for years to come. There are about 250,000 hits on MP search for "maitreya lingerie" alone, even though a goodly number are not lingerie or for Maitreya. They can afford to lose a significant percentage of the smaller merchants and not bat an eyelid.

10,000 new signups a day... A lot never make it past downloading the viewer, they discover it's an "old peoples game for old people with pc's and not consoles", some never make it past Noob island and the intro assault course, default avi's look to crap, lag is too bad, controls are too alien for the console generation even if they DO have an "old persons gaming rig".

But, some do stay at least for a few days, and many of those will "risk" $10 on the "game", so LL makes $1.50 of each of those for their $10 lindex transaction.

Those 10 one day old noobs who might stay in SL for a week or less, buying $10 each on the Lindex, are already worth more in Lindex fees than a merchant selling $100 worth of L$ on the Lindex and paying $1.50 in transaction fee. 10 Times more.

If LL are not making 5% on your L$100 sales on the MP, they will make 5% off somebody else's sales.

LL make more money off Linden STAYING in world and getting spent in places they tax, or being payed to them directly in tier/maintenance or indirectly as parcel rent, than they ever will from people cashing out. They would rather have 1000 small hobbyists earning pin money to spend inworld than 100 "professionals" making modest RL livings.

...

A big part of the problem is old old accounts who opened stores back in the gold rush days when any no talent clown could found an exclusive vip signature deluxe outlet (tm) and make easy money, and they never accepted that SL changed.

An old friend of mine had a fashion store, took up a full region...

Prim boobs became a thing, he didn't like the exaggerated shapes, so he refused to make appliers for them regardless of how many customers asked. He refused to reconsider his 'no appliers' rule when mesh body parts became a thing, and then mesh bodies. 

Mesh became a thing, he made a couple of items, but wouldn't adopt the 'standard sizing' that others were using, as he didn't like their sizes, so his mesh was 3 sizes fit nobody at all.

Marketing shifted from "exclusive word of mouth" to regular adverts in shopping groups, Monday Madness, Humpday discount Club, 30 LS Thursdays, he joined ONE group and NEVER bothered sending any notices, and never changed the "humpday discount item".

His last conversation with me before he vanished from SL, was to the effect that he was closing his inworld store because "I am paying $300 a month to give stuff away on lucky chairs, when 90% of my sales are on the MP".

Problem was thge people buying stuff on the MP heard about his store INWORLD, and decided they liked his stuff after winning old and poor selling stuff on the chairs, they simply shopped on the MP because it was easier.

No inworld store, no new customers on MP.

He was a great guy and a good friend, but he was complacent and ultimately foolish, he killed off his own business, because he IGNORED his customers and POTENTIAL customers, and carried on as if it was still 2007, when Merchants were kings of the Hill...

...

You are not Kings of the Hill any more, the biggest danger in the higher lindex fees isnt whiny 2nd waver merchants complaining that they are losing an extra 50 cents every time they sell L$ for USD, but the drop in noob retention when they see that their initial "risk $10 on a new game" involves a $1.50 "ripoff" before they even get in world.

1 hour ago, Majestic Kohime said:

not with the 10creators from this topic but rather with 1000's creators"whining

Ultimately, LL won't give a rats backside, not until Plan B fails, and the NEW Glorious Leader presents the OLD Glorious Leader with the gold plated watch and announces his NEW Plan A to "build a prim wall, make the Islanders pay for it and make SL's Madlands great again", or whatever the next madness will be...

 

[Elvina Ewing]

7 hours ago, Rya Nitely said:

But but wait, there are people who are obviously enjoying it. Take Alwin for instance, what else would he have to do? And then there is Solar Legion having a good old laugh. And then there are the ones who just want to talk about it in a clique of like minded individuals, feeling the love and support. And you want to spoil it all, telling us to stop it, like some old school teacher.

i also don't understand this persistent urge to shut us up. Almost like they are afraid... Don't like this thread, feel irritated by what is being discussed in it - don't follow it, don't click the link to read it, don't participate yourself. I don't see the problem.

[Majestic Kohime]

@Klytyna, you are partly right. But there are also skilled people coders or original mesh makers (iam both) that would like more infos to know and estimate objectivly  the future ratio time spent/money earnt that will come out from this hypothetic new fee pattern

Its not a matter of whining. Its a matter of taking decisions about continuing in SL or going to other platforms, its about comparing fees, its about continuing a full time in SL creation or not, etc..

People here dont whine but they want the infos, at least.

Most of my friends scripters left SL during the past TOS changes from 2014. They left and some of them went, for example, to Unity.

We are talking, about jobs, incomes, and so on. You are right about the past glorious "noobs" creators from the golden era that earnt tons making prim stuff without any knownledge. But i guess that everyone there adapted to the new SL. we all did, those participating in this thread

You are  right about the new kind of marketing in SL consisting in events, flickrs and so on. Thats just a trend, ok that will take some years, but one day custmers will be back to basics. Which consists in checking inworld by themselves. See already the amount of customers starting to complain about those Mp product photos made in render softwares instead of SL, not representative of the inworld quzlaity

Edited July 1, 2018 by Majestic Kohime

[Elvina Ewing]

personally i invite everybody to whine about whatever they want. It is certainly not the sole privilege of only Alwin and Klytyna, even though they might feel it is.

[Luna Bliss]

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 6:48 AM, Elvina Ewing said:

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 5:48 AM, Alwin Alcott said:

 

YOU excist by permission of your customers..never forget that.

Again, come off your throne and start walking in real.

 

 

hahahaha i exist by permission of my customers? i wonder what you meant by that... I create because i have the need to, and rather than to keep the creations just to myself i choose to share it with others, because i know it brings joy to a lot of people and makes a lot of people just a little bit happier. I know this because of all the fanmail i have received in the course of 10+ years of creating for SL, and each and every time i get it it brings tears in my eyes to know that my creations have made somebody somewhere feel a little bit better... And before your obvious snappy remark, I sell my creations rather than just give them away for free because LL (bless them!!) have made it possible. If one fine day for some reason i cannot do that here in SL i most certainly will continue to exist doing the exact same thing elsewhere. but thank you for your concern.

Yes that's a bizarre one...Klyt and Alwin telling us we exist for customers.
What if I logged on and thought "oh what can I create that a customer would like". Just NO, that's the wrong way to go about it...I would be creating to please another, or to make the most possible amount of money from a customer.
Instead, I like to log in and say "what can I learn today about nature and art, what can I perceive now that I have not perceived before, what can I appreciate more about the way forms come together, or how light reflects on a surface, or how a flower opens or stems bend in such a miraculous and interesting design.....of how beautiful and harmonious this precious life in all worlds is".
And then, if I choose to sell it the creation reflects my learning and appreciation of reality...it has life! And the customer appreciates it too. And I'm glad the customer knows beauty, and I appreciate that they are paying me so we can both continue on in this appreciation of reality.

Most certainly if we want to sell our creations as a merchant we are nothing without our customers here, but also SL is nothing without all or our creations and participation in it -- two-way street.

[Luna Bliss]

11 hours ago, Klytyna said:

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 5:03 AM, Elvina Ewing said:

it's idiocy that people who are no SL merchants themselves (are trying to) preach on MERCHANTS forum to the actual SL merchants. No, your input here is indeed much less relevant than you obviously would have liked because you cannot know what it's like to be in our shoes because you are not one of us.

You accuse me of being rude, because I won't suck up to your "Faux-Tycoon Wannabe" ego, but the reality is simple, you are only a Merchant, as long as you have customers, and if you consistently act in this way towards potential customers, pretty soon you won't HAVE any.

Without customers you are NOTHING, if you leave others will replace you, probably with newer and better products, less hide-bound and with more attention to the wants and needs of the customers who PAY for your pretentions.

And they wonder why "non-merchants" don't share their opinions.

Klytyna, I think it's pretty much a fact of human nature that we only truly or fully understand what we've experienced. You have not experienced depending on SL for your RL income nor do you have intimate awareness of any merchants particular life situation that could cause a 30% reduction in income difficult to bear, and so you can't totally empathize with how we are feeling.
This observation in no way means I feel superior, nor does it reflect my opinion of your worth or intelligence or realization that you might contribute to SL in equally valuable ways.

I do believe there are merchants in SL who feel 'entitled'...I've seen them many times, and I've experienced customers who feel 'entitled'. There are those who feel unusually gleeful when getting 'something for nothing', even when they recognize doing so hurts another. But for you to take this dynamic in SL and apply it to everyone in this thread is wrong...you need evidence before accusing others. Do you not feel any guilt in labeling another in error? For me that is an egregious and violent act. I can only believe you're not aware that you see patterns in life and then apply them inappropriately, or at least I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Patterns are lovely, and a big part of creating art, of knowing reality, of determining our truth. We see patterns of behavior in people and take note, and with a little bit of talent give it an appropriate name that seems to encapsulate it perfectly, succintly, and maybe with great humor...this is the stuff of poetry and great satire.
It's also the core of Psychology...to see patterns in people so that we better know what's going on and can help them.
But this dynamic can be so misused when in the hands of someone who can't see clearly, lacks empathy, or does not make the effort to get all the facts.

Klytyna, again, when someone is feeling 'entitled' they expect something for nothing, or when in a dispute are unable to even entertain the merits of the other side. I do not see any merchants IN THIS THREAD who fit this category, so why are you accusing us of it? Where is the evidence?

[Luna Bliss]

15 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

You seem to have a lot of interest in lumping all creators together.

I think Majestic misunderstood you, Chic. Maybe it's a language barrier thing.

[iamyourneighbour]

They won't, basically they are trying to keep the money in linden economy, sucks for creators, landlord and the like I know. However, it doesn't affect the average consumer which would tally 9 out of 10 residents, so I doubt they will do anything. Even if they levy it to 5% today people would have to bite the bullet since that's the only way you are going to get the sweet USD into your paypal.

 

Before you ask, the 9 out of 10 is just a guestimate, not a lot of people have shops, and even less people have a shop that brings in constant flow of linden. On IMVU they even get you to pay the 10% tax just to cover just in case you are a foreign resident, so IMO, there are worse to come for creators, and I predict if that should be the case, user to user trading will become more common since the spread becomes larger in buying/selling prices.

Edited July 2, 2018 by iamyourneighbour

[Alwin Alcott]

49 minutes ago, Majestic Kohime said:

 But WE MADE SL. Not you.

you did?

you made a item, nothing more. Your customers made SL with it.

Your contribution is one single item ( of a kind) all others are used by others who paid you the price you put on.

They used something you made, totally right, but that's all you did.

[if you try to use my name at least try do it right]

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Alwin Alcott

[Majestic Kohime]

43 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

you did?

you made a item, nothing more. Your customers made SL with it.

Your contribution is one single item ( of a kind) all others are used by others who paid you the price you put on.

They used something you made, totally right, but that's all you did.

 

Iam not only talking about SELLING.

I resurrected a big international social place (a club which means only spending money , spending all my free time, and earning nothing but haters trying to ruin all your days) , helped tons of noobs (cause they couldnt find infos about how to start in SL), i worked very hard to make some of the biggest scammers of SL banned,  helped wiki contributors, etc.. I have always been here to try to boost SL somehow, because the SL concept worth fighting for.

Also back in the past i was only building creating for free, creating public places builds for friends, it was free

Ill even add that most of the money (more than 70% of my earnings) i spent back in SL and not transfered in RL. Iam talking about thousands dollars "re-invested" in SL

I dont feel to be one of those greedy assholes described by klytyna, and probably most of the creators there helped a lot the SL community

And now, all those fees are chaging the concept we fighted for so long, turning it into a fee industry/milking.

thats depressing. especially since we see fees but no solution on long term to bring new people in mass in SL. and this is the main issue

Most of the creators here also contributed to make SL better, its not about selling its about making it alive: helping newcomers, opening social places, investing, etc..freebies..

Iam shocked that you and klytyna think that the creators are just greedy bastards thinking only about their profit.

Most of us are solo creators, not companies, we are humans beeings and might have (and iam very sure most of the creators that posted here participated in SL "life) contributed to make SL better, for free.

At the opposite i see only negativity coming from klytyna.. for now.. who knows maybe iam wrong and she is a philantropist and helps noobs on welcome sim??? LOL , since she complains about the famous +0.49$ fee on L$ buying that scam newcomers?? HAHA maybe she rather go there and help those newcomers somehow hahaha

 

And lets be clear a last time i would be less nervous if LL would announce that overall the MP fees will never be upped more than 5% (so the already 5% + 5% other fee max) and that they wont change the cashout fee for very long time.

Why no change on cashout? cause they already did and because PAYPAL already rising fees on conversion end august!!!

Idk its just a matter of reassuring the creators instead of making us nervous for the next 1 year

Edited July 2, 2018 by Majestic Kohime

[Klytyna]

2 hours ago, Majestic Kohime said:

i tried to understand your point of view

No, actually you made very little effort to understand a damn thng...

Let me boil it down for you...

Money talks, Ego walks...

Simple as that really, anyone who thionks they are irreplaceable in SL is almost certainly wrong. One Linden clan member is famous for saying "There's always somebody else to buy the island..."

2 hours ago, Majestic Kohime said:

Project Sansar and High Fidelity didnt listen the voice from both customers and creators

Both Project Stupid and Lo-Fidelity were bloody awful ideas from the get go, Lo-Fidelity had to appeal for crowd funding to START its development 4 years ago because the bankers were reluctant to lend it any cash at first, Project Stupid was just a bad knee-jerk reaction to the request for crowd funding for Lo-Fidelity. Neither project had any clear direction to start with, THAT'S why they are expensive failures.

2 hours ago, Majestic Kohime said:

I take your post as a personal insult

Because I dared to disagree with the self important self indulgent self serving ignorance expressed by some of your fellow merchants in this thread, the ones who think customers are an endless resource of free money who need never be listened to. If that's your definition of a personal insult, you need to leave the house more often.

2 hours ago, Majestic Kohime said:

since you are flaming "almost" everyone here . except the people who are compulsivly talkin about a 30% fee for like 3 monthes: weird, why dont you flame pro-fees people?

Funny, I havn't seen a lot of people spending 3 months discussing any "official announcement" of 30% fees for anything.

If you are refering to at present, EMPTY speculation aboiut a possible 30% sales tax on the MP, allow me to point out to you that SL's self entitled merchants have had it really really easy up till now.

The STANDARD brokerage % for 3d content on many content retailing sites is 50%...

Daz3D Productions for example used to charge its "Brokered Artists" a 50% sales tax, and, when Daz decided your stuff was going on a 10% seasonal sale, that 10% discount on the retail price came out of YOUR end of the deal, 50 for Daz, 40 for you, 10 discount for the customer. Similar rates applied on Renderosity, Renderotica, and many other content sites.

2 hours ago, Majestic Kohime said:

I know very well your game, and alvin's one

It's NOT our game, it's LL's game...

And the Game has a very simple rule...

Their way or the highway...

1 hour ago, Majestic Kohime said:

especially since we see fees but no solution on long term to bring new people in mass in SL. and this is the main issue

Frankly most of SL'sd problems can be directly tied to bringing in masses of people between 2006 and 2009, the 2nd Wave Lastnamers, when SL's population rose a couple of thousand percent and then collapsed, leaving us with a land glut that's still borking the property markets, leaving us with a small number of very talented merchants who understand how it al works, and a much larger pool who think they are "Special Snowflakes" because back in 2007 they were sucking easy money out of SL in big fat bundles, and can't cope with the fact that times have CHANGED.

Just throwing armies of noobs at SL won't fix anything that's broken.

2 hours ago, Majestic Kohime said:

You tend to hijack the topic to avoid to have a real discussion

I didn't hijack the discussion, I answered the OP's question and explained why the answer is what it is...

Money, and LL's need to make some.

Discussion over.

2 hours ago, Majestic Kohime said:

But WE MADE SL. Not you.

NOW you are being arrogant and ignorant, and displaying EXACTLY the kind of Special Snowflake Entitlement, that really pisses me off...

YOU did NOT make SL, SL is made by the users, all of them, not just a few content creators.

What's a designed community without actual people?

Ask the Entitled fool who was the self styled "Queen of the East River", who's 9 year attempt to design a community failed because she designed it to fail right at the start. It survived because she subsidised its poor concept from her own pocket for 9 years to the tune of 50%, then her RL changed and poof, no more money, now it's owned by somebody else, trying to restructure it to overcome 9 years of "Special Snowflake Stupidity (tm)".

And you are STILL playing that bloody Entitlement card...

"Look at me I put a bench and a tree outside my store, i demand regular meetings, 1-2-1, with the Glorious leader so he can hear my instructions for lowering my SL taxes..."

1 hour ago, Majestic Kohime said:

At the opposite i see only negativity coming from klytyna.. for now.. who knows maybe iam wrong and she is a philantropist and helps noobs on welcome sim??? LOL , since she complains about the famous +0.49$ fee on L$ buying that scam newcomers?? HAHA maybe she rather go there and help those newcomers somehow hahaha

For your information...

I've been in SL more than 6 years, I used to be one of the greeters and guides on a noob friendly sim, I did unpaid support for Opencollar users back when most of the ACTUAL Opencollar support staff were tech-illoiterate buttholes who BOUGHT their dev team tags, and never actually used a damn collar, One former Opencollar Support staff member was somebody I trained (Admittedly, she wasn't much good and I was surprised as hell when she was made an OC dev. It was like watching the slow stupid kid in your classroom get appointed honorary head of a university because "daddy paid money"). 

I've trained up no small number of padawan over the years, in topics such as basic scripting, building, texturing etc.

I've been sim staff on a sim that tried to encourage new up and coming dj's by making it easy and essentially free for them to find venues to play at, I've been a sim admin, dealing with griefers and trouble makers in public hangout sims.

I've campaigned against places that try to turn 1 day old noobs into indentured serf sex workers tied to a single sim, by lying to them, where they were used as cashcows to make a clear profit of L$10,000 per week per noob, 6-10 noobs per shift, 12 shifts a day, 7 days a week, for an average of two weeks before said noobs rage quit out of SL because they realised they would NEVER be allowed to work off their "debt".

Where were you when that was happening?

Don't pretend you know a damn thing about me just because I can see that you are not LL's main source of income, and am willing to say so to your face.

...

1 hour ago, Majestic Kohime said:

Iam shocked that you and klytyna think that the creators are just greedy bastards thinking only about their profit.

I am shocked that you don't read some of the threads posted here by your fellow merchants. I did mention some of the more gratuitous examples in an earlier post.

1 hour ago, Majestic Kohime said:

And lets be clear a last time i would be less nervous if LL would announce that overall the MP fees will never be upped more than 5% (so the already 5% + 5% other fee max) and that they wont change the cashout fee for very long time.

They are not going to make such a promise. They have already hinted that they are looking for more ways to charge people money to replace the lost revenues from lowering Tier.

You laugh at the 49 cent increase in lindex fees

Losing 49 cents means nothing to you on a $1000 exchange right, come cashout time

Losing $1.49 out of a $10 purchase on day 1, will discourage a noob from staying, or even completing that purchase.

1 hour ago, Majestic Kohime said:

Why no change on cashout?

Because they wasted millions of dollars on Project Stupid, trying to save LL's finances, and now they have a short window to make plan b work before the shareholders grow angry at falling dividends and choose a NEW Glorious Leader...

Will the next guy, next year or the year after, think differently? Maybe, maybe not. But you are dreaming if you think they will stoop to discuss Plan B with small merchants, or offer guarantees of continuing to have the easiest deal for said merchants on the web.

2 hours ago, Majestic Kohime said:

its just a matter of reassuring the creators instead of making us nervous for the next 1 year

You still do not get it... NO small merchant is important enough for LL to tie their hands financially by making reassuring promises to said small merchant.

3 hours ago, Majestic Kohime said:

Why did you think LL listened us in past? For legal reasons maybe?

No, legally, the ONLY people LL's management are responsible to are LL's shareholders. Legal obligation to do what they think is best for the company, it's share price and the divident paid to said shareholders every year.
 

[Blush Bravin]

Linden Lab is going to do what is best for Linden Lab, as well they should. It is a business and the bottom line is always the dollar. What is best for Linden Lab may or may not be what is best for your current business model. You will need to adapt or perish. It's as simple as that.

If you think threatening to leave because you don't like Linden Lab's restructuring plans for their business model is going to impact their decision, you are fooling yourself. If you leave there will be others to take your place in a heartbeat.

All that said, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE should be able to voice their concern or disapproval without being accused of feeling entitled or of trolling. Can't we be adult here and stop the name calling?

[Majestic Kohime]

You talk about everyone'segos yet you are the only one to write in bold, hurting our eyes not only with bold but also with rudeness, insults, and attacks.

And about the bold words i still dont understand the reason the moderation of the forums allow such behavior. It is forbidden on most of the serios forums i know. especially when the bold writer is also flaming every two words

Congratz you had what you wanted since the beginning: ruining a discussion and avoiding the creators (you arent creator so basicly you arent concerned at all) to gather and to try to make hear their voice.

You won this round.

Do you want some kinder suprise?

But no worry. Iam used to thins kind of behavior. As i said, it is same on steam. I cannot say more, those who can understand will clearly understand your interest and behavior here. (and the behavior of the other whiteknights)

 

@Blush Bravin Lol, who is threatening to leave? me? how could i leave since, as scripter ive already been killed by the 2014 TOS change. Iam more than partly out. Tho it is interesting to know the future plans to see if i invest again time in SL or not.

And every customer with a normal brain shoould understand that upping fees on MP products or cashout will result in giant upping of the prices proportional to the fees up.

And then you will come here to cry about "those greedy creators that are upping their prices".

iam writting also as customer

 

If you dont know about the 2014 Tos matter check my history message posts you will understand many things and the reason a lot of scripters left SL;

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Majestic Kohime

[Rya Nitely]

Linden Lab will also consider the impact these changes will have on its survival, how it will affect its users. I think they remember quite clearly the great exodus after the Homestead tier huge percentage increase. How users feel is important - not to be dismissed. 

9 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

If you think threatening to leave because you don't like Linden Lab's restructuring plans

It depends on the impact. She may not be alone. You don't know how many others may not tolerate too many fee increases. We just don't know. Amd as I said before LL will be careful. They know they have to be. They'll need to monitor each change, as they said they would.

And people should express their views - that's important too.

[Rya Nitely]

24 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

If you think threatening to leave because you don't like Linden Lab's restructuring plans for their business model is going to impact their decision, you are fooling yourself. If you leave there will be others to take your place in a heartbeat.

All that said, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE should be able to voice their concern or disapproval without being accused of feeling entitled or of trolling. Can't we be adult here and stop the name calling?

You're accusing her of something she didn't say in a very put down manner. So, your post is contradictory. You are putting her in her place, and then saying she should be allowed to voice her concerns 

[Blush Bravin]

15 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

Linden Lab will also consider the impact these changes will have on its survival, how it will affect its users. I think they remember quite clearly the great exodus after the Homestead tier huge percentage increase. How users feel is important - not to be dismissed. 

It depends on the impact. She may not be alone. You don't know how many others may not tolerate too many fee increases. We just don't know. Amd as I said before LL will be careful. They know they have to be. They'll need to monitor each change, as they said they would.

And people should express their views - that's important too.

If you're going to quote me please do so in context. 

[Blush Bravin]

2 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

You're accusing her of something she didn't say in a very put down manner. So, your post is contradictory. You are putting her in her place, and then saying she should be allowed to voice her concerns 

I am giving my opinion. As I ended my post with saying that EVERYONE should be able to voice their concern or disapproval without being accused of feeling entitled or of trolling.

 

You are trying to make my post personal. It was not. There was more than one person with that same opinion. I am not name calling or making it personal. I have an opinion. I stated it. Please stop making everything personal.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Blush Bravin

[Majestic Kohime]

then tell us your opinion about the topic, since you seem to be a merchant and probably also a customer.

thats what we were trying to do: sharing opinions or gathering infos about this topic until 1-2 flamers came.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Majestic Kohime

[Blush Bravin]

3 minutes ago, Majestic Kohime said:

then tell us your opinion about the topic, since you seem to be a merchant and probably also a customer.

 

My opinion is clearly stated at the beginning of my post. Read the first two paragraphs carefully and you will see it. And yes, I am a merchant and also very much a shopper, and I own mainland. I am heavily invested in SL both monetarily and with my time. I am also invested in Sansar.