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lucagrabacr

"Locker" inventory so people don't have to clean up their inventory to reduce login lag

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Just thought about this yesterday, why don't we have a separate "locker" inventory that doesn't get loaded up or indexed when we login? (which creates login delay, and inventory loading delay if you got many stuff in your inventory) so people don't have to "clean up" their inventory to reduce the lag, and possibly lose some important items (like one of my friends did)

I mean we can kinda do that by backing up things inside objects / prims, but that takes away prims and is kinda an inefficient workaround I guess.

What do you guys think? :)

 

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24 minutes ago, lucagrabacr said:

Just thought about this yesterday, why don't we have a separate "locker" inventory that doesn't get loaded up or indexed when we login? (which creates login delay, and inventory loading delay if you got many stuff in your inventory) so people don't have to "clean up" their inventory to reduce the lag, and possibly lose some important items (like one of my friends did)

I mean we can kinda do that by backing up things inside objects / prims, but that takes away prims and is kinda an inefficient workaround I guess.

What do you guys think? :)

 

how do you see that? .. it will still be your inventory and will have to load at certain point, i'd prefer a little slower login, than a lagmonster for the hour after it because the locker needs to load while i am visiting events or clubs.

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8 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

how do you see that? .. it will still be your inventory and will have to load at certain point, i'd prefer a little slower login, than a lagmonster for the hour after it because the locker needs to load while i am visiting events or clubs.

Maybe they can make it so the loading of the items in the locker inventory would only occur when we open it? That's still better than having to delete stuff to reduce mandatory login lag

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12 minutes ago, lucagrabacr said:

Maybe they can make it so the loading of the items in the locker inventory would only occur when we open it? That's still better than having to delete stuff to reduce mandatory login lag

i thought only a  badly organised inventory mostly really cause problems? Will a seperate inventory help against that? ... people with messy inventories will also make messy lockers.

Loading when you need it?... with current systems it still means you can do nothing during that time.

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It wouldn't matter when it loads - loading it would cause the lag you're trying to avoid.

I don't know how large your inventory is that its causing you so much trouble but after nearly twelve years I have yet to go over a hundred thousand individual entries (including the Library section I might add).

And that's with most of it unsorted.

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1 minute ago, Solar Legion said:

It wouldn't matter when it loads - loading it would cause the lag you're trying to avoid.

I don't know how large your inventory is that its causing you so much trouble but after nearly twelve years I have yet to go over a hundred thousand individual entries (including the Library section I might add).

And that's with most of it unsorted.

The lag I'm having is personally not that bad, compared to my alt it takes me around 5-9 seconds longer to load and I personally don't have a problem with that. Just suggesting this as a way to eliminate the lag or delay altogether for those who might want to do that instead of deleting stuff from their inventory. :) 

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3 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

It wouldn't matter when it loads - loading it would cause the lag you're trying to avoid.

I don't know how large your inventory is that its causing you so much trouble but after nearly twelve years I have yet to go over a hundred thousand individual entries (including the Library section I might add).

And that's with most of it unsorted.

Same here after a year :D but yeah not that much lag either.

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2 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Same here after a year :D but yeah not that much lag either.

Amusingly several years back that same inventory size could cause some issues but that could be laid squarely at the feet of one's machine, Network systems and a whole host of things with LL and their server systems on the extreme far end.

On a divergence: I've only ever had things vanish from my inventory once - an outfit I'd bought from Bare Rose vanished a day after I'd bought it. Wasn't too annoyed either as it wasn't what I thought it'd be.

Edited by Solar Legion

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35 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

i thought only a  badly organised inventory mostly really cause problems? Will a seperate inventory help against that? ... people with messy inventories will also make messy lockers.

Loading when you need it?... with current systems it still means you can do nothing during that time.

How you "organise" your inventory has zero impact on how it loads into the viewer or how much lag it may or may not cause. Organising your inventory is for your own personal benefit, the computers involved (yours and SL's) don't give a toot.

A truely massive inventory can cause some issues, but we're talking an insanely large number .. say 7 figures. We (Catznip developers) are shopaholics with @Kitty Barnett having the largest inventory I've ever encountered owning literally everything she has bought since she started SL, it has no impact, don't worry about it. (If it did, we would have fixed it already).

The single biggest inventory related issue we find from our users is a poor internet connection combined with a lack of patience and frustrated futile attempts to "fix" the issue by clearing the cache, reinstalling ... and worse. O.o

If you have inventory woes, check your connection. Reboot your PC and your router .. leave it off for a few minutes. Use a wired connection rather than wifi ... if you must use wifi, move some place else or adjust your antenna. Close your web browser and don't minimize SL while you wait. Be patient. Find and landmark a nice quiet water sim (like KARA) and log in there when you have issues you can't resolve yourself.

Don't panic. Don't worry that all your stuff is "gone" and don't start setting your viewer install or computer on fire in some blind misguided attempt to make it work.

dude-chill-just-chill.jpg

 

 

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2 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Don't panic. Don't worry

dude-chill-just-chill.jpg

 

 

not completely sure why you mention the things i quote... i'm not panicing or any other frustration... just as my post starts  "i thought" ... not "i suffer" to problems  :)

my inventory is under 15k. Not having any bad feelings when i trash things i never use.

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You can do this yourself. My partner organizes his inventory by putting things in a prim object and taking that object back into his inventory, and having a notecard list of where things are. I’m too scared to do that because I’m afraid SL will eat it, but he only has around 300 items in addition to his inventory. He just Rezzes the box, unpacks a copy of the thing that he wants, and takes the prim back.

But, like Coffee was saying, it really is usually an outside source causing the issues. My partner doesn’t do it for the lag, he just hates unorganization and had too much free time one day years ago. 

Edited by norajulian

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If you go for the item in box way - take two boxes. one for copy and the other for no copy items... safer for the copyable stuff that way.

Edited by Fionalein

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54 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

How you "organise" your inventory has zero impact on how it loads into the viewer

Unless the inventory is very, very flat -- i.e. very few sub-folder structures.  We do know that a very flat inventory can actually prevent login and then LL has to run some utility against a person's inventory to fix the issue.

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36 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

not completely sure why you mention the things i quote... i'm not panicing or any other frustration... just as my post starts  "i thought" ... not "i suffer" to problems  :)

my inventory is under 15k. Not having any bad feelings when i trash things i never use.

Plenty do actually believe that an unsorted inventory (or worse) causes lag. I'm just thankful it's impossible to see how much inventory someone else has ... that would be a drama nuke.

23 minutes ago, norajulian said:

But, like Coffee was saying, it really is usually an outside source causing the issues. My partner doesn’t do it for the lag, he just hates unorganization and had too much free time one day years ago. 

Actual inventory loss is exceptionally rare and can only be corrected by filling a support ticket.

24 minutes ago, norajulian said:

You can do this yourself. My partner organizes his inventory by putting things in a prim object and taking that object back into his inventory, and having a notecard list of where things are. I’m too scared to do that because I’m afraid SL will eat it, but he only has around 300 items in addition to his inventory. He just Rezzes the box, unpacks a copy of the thing that he wants, and takes the prim back.

He really shouldn't do this, especially for no-copy items. Should his box fail to rez then it can be permanently destroyed depending on the cause of the rez fail and if it's caught by the region.

 

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Actually, the locker concept is use in some data centers, they call it Nearline storage.

We tried it where I worked but it was difficult to get people to understand that it takes time to get files out of storage, even when a robot was doing the work. But the concept does work.

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I really like the idea. There's definitely a difference in log-in times between my nine year old main and my two year old building alt too.

What I would like is to be able to keep folder structures intact but in some sort of separate, searchable inventory which I can bring up (or log into if that is easier to code) as and when needed. A system where I could chose to not have things like the furniture and seasonal decor folders in my daily inventory but could get to them when I want them without having to muck around with spreadsheets and notecards and stuffed prims. Plus folders let you wear things to see it they suit the space. Much more efficient than rezzing and deleting and emptying trash.

The way it is now, with a single inventory, it's like we're carrying our entire attics, cellars, junk drawers and spare rooms around with us all the time. A way of trimming it down would be useful to some of us and could just be ignored by those who don't see a need for it. I'm in favour of the idea. :)

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2 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Actual inventory loss is exceptionally rare and can only be corrected by filling a support ticket.

He really shouldn't do this, especially for no-copy items.

 

- For me, my items are hellishly unorganized (aside from poses) so I wouldn’t be able to know If I lost something until I needed it. Definitely good info for anyone else peeking in though! 

- that’s what I’ve told him numerous times. Fortunately for him, he isn’t big on those anyway because they could disappear! Just an option to consider - and he does always rezz a prim first before rezzing anything else. 

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One thing I noticed with log in times, when comparing alts.   Compare the size of friends list, compare the number of groups, factoring in the size of the groups too.  Also a rough comparison of how busy a region,  not just the number of Avas, but the amount of Stuffs.     For me ...Shy builder alt with lot more stuffs and things in inventory logs a lot faster, than social shopping group going avatar.   

So kinda implies to me anyway that the other wires are full.

Edited by KathrynLisbeth

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8 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

How you "organise" your inventory has zero impact on how it loads into the viewer or how much lag it may or may not cause. Organising your inventory is for your own personal benefit, the computers involved (yours and SL's) don't give a toot.

A truely massive inventory can cause some issues, but we're talking an insanely large number .. say 7 figures. We (Catznip developers) are shopaholics with @Kitty Barnett having the largest inventory I've ever encountered owning literally everything she has bought since she started SL, it has no impact, don't worry about it. (If it did, we would have fixed it already).

The single biggest inventory related issue we find from our users is a poor internet connection combined with a lack of patience and frustrated futile attempts to "fix" the issue by clearing the cache, reinstalling ... and worse. O.o

If you have inventory woes, check your connection. Reboot your PC and your router .. leave it off for a few minutes. Use a wired connection rather than wifi ... if you must use wifi, move some place else or adjust your antenna. Close your web browser and don't minimize SL while you wait. Be patient. Find and landmark a nice quiet water sim (like KARA) and log in there when you have issues you can't resolve yourself.

Don't panic. Don't worry that all your stuff is "gone" and don't start setting your viewer install or computer on fire in some blind misguided attempt to make it work.

dude-chill-just-chill.jpg

 

 

The inventory on my main account is over 100,000 and it definitely has WAY slowly load time on log-in and other problems.

My alts with with under 10,000 load much faster and have less problems. This is a fact. It's an important corrective to your blanket claims.

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You can already disable the Linden Library in some viewers, so it doesn't load at all. Seems like LL could add a folder to people's inventories, alongside Inventory and Library, that works the same way. You choose when you want it loaded. The question is, how much benefit would there be?

I often think a better solution would be for LL to improve the inventory UI so it's not like trying to manage an early 90's DOS graphical interface without commands and hotkeys to help. I want to clean out my inventory, but LL makes it so ridiculously time consuming and monotonous.

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I've considered doing the prim packing thing but I've always wondered where those items go.  Like they're obviously still in the SL database but when they're packed away do they just...not technically belong to anyone?  Or are they all just in the prim and you can have one really laggy prim full of a ton of items?

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5 minutes ago, MegaRose said:

Or are they all just in the prim and you can have one really laggy prim full of a ton of items?

Basically, yes..

They are no longer in YOUR inventory, but in the inventory of part of your inventory.

10 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

How you "organise" your inventory has zero impact on how it loads into the viewer

Erm...

Having a FLAT inventory structure, with thousands of items in a single folder (or thousands of folders directly in inventory root), CAN affect loading, during login, it's a known cause of login failure, and one that generally can only be fixed by filling a ticket for a Linden to unflatten your inv for you.

It can for the same reason, also slow down Teleports and Sim crossings, as these both involve the sim server sending a total update of your inventory status to the asset servers before throwing you, naked, bald, and ruthed, to the next sim, which then downloads  the bits of your inventory that you are allegedly wearing. 200,000 items or more can be quite noticable for this, and for the "TP Logouts" where the delay is such SL logs you out while waiting for your inventory updates to finish.

Therefore having some sort of multi-level inventory folder tree is in fact a sensible thing to do, just from the "not having to ask a Linden to fix your inventory for you" kind of a way, never mind the actual user benefits of not being a lazy slob, hahaha...

This you understand is all server-side, so you wouldn't really see this in the viewer code.

10 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

The single biggest inventory related issue we find from our users is a poor internet connection combined with a lack of patience and frustrated futile attempts to "fix" the issue by clearing the cache, reinstalling ... and worse

To be fair, the majority of temp inv loss I've seen in other people and my self is due not to 'connection' problems per say but to "client side inv list damage" caused by viewer crashes. FS used to be particularly prone to this, which is why they have an actual page on their website dedicated to sorting it, and why they have a "clear inventory cache" button.

In Catznip, you "clear viewer history" after unticking all the optional boxes you don't want cleared...



 

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2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

The inventory on my main account is over 100,000 and it definitely has WAY slowly load time on log-in and other problems.

My alts with with under 10,000 load much faster and have less problems. This is a fact. It's an important corrective to your blanket claims.

As the number of seconds it takes to login is obviously the high stakes deeply important take away issue from this thread, might I take this moment to point out reading this reply took longer than the difference in load times. 

34 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

To be fair, the majority of temp inv loss I've seen in other people and my self is due not to 'connection' problems per say but to "client side inv list damage" caused by viewer crashes. FS used to be particularly prone to this, which is why they have an actual page on their website dedicated to sorting it, and why they have a "clear inventory cache" button.

In Catznip, you "clear viewer history" after unticking all the optional boxes you don't want cleared...

Generally we tell people to leave the viewer files alone and go the KARA sim (seriously, that one is gold .. and easy to remember) and relog. KARA rules out any locational weirdness and the relog resolves all issues .. 90% of the time.

The trouble shooting options we provide are more about giving those inclined to busy work something predictable to try before they get frustrated and ask for help. You wouldn't believe the crazy lengths some people will go to attempt to resolve an issue. It is quite possible to tinker with debugs or viewer files and completely break the client and that's actually a lot harder for us to support, not to mention very time consuming.

When I have followed up inventory issues personally (guess what I spend my days in SL doing) .. it's an unstable connection 99% of the time. If there was something solid and repeatable we can fix .. it just gets fixed.

54 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

Having a FLAT inventory structure, with thousands of items in a single folder (or thousands of folders directly in inventory root), CAN affect loading, during login, it's a known cause of login failure, and one that generally can only be fixed by filling a ticket for a Linden to unflatten your inv for you.

That would be exactly how Kitty's inventory was 'sorted' prior to the recent shopping related auto sorting ... (and incidentally why you can search inventory with regular expressions) ..

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Actually. 

I have a ton of stuff I "don't use anymore", but don't want to delete because I paid good money for it.

Something like this would be of benefit to people like me.

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22 hours ago, lucagrabacr said:

Just thought about this yesterday, why don't we have a separate "locker" inventory that doesn't get loaded up or indexed when we login? (which creates login delay, and inventory loading delay if you got many stuff in your inventory) so people don't have to "clean up" their inventory to reduce the lag, and possibly lose some important items (like one of my friends did)

I mean we can kinda do that by backing up things inside objects / prims, but that takes away prims and is kinda an inefficient workaround I guess.

What do you guys think? :)

 

Premium account perk maybe?

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