Modern Sim Lag Times

[Parhelion Palou]

1 minute ago, CoffeeDujour said:

That hasn't been correct for a long time now. SL actual regions run on Linden servers. Assets and textures etc is via 3rd party cloud services. The goal is to have regions in the cloud at some point with the option to have regions you own hosted geographically close

I didn't want to get into too many details. The point was that Sansar and SL are not sharing the same computing resources. Even when eventually SL moves to the cloud SL and Sansar will still be separate. LL isn't stealing computing resources from SL to run Sansar.

[Sharie Criss]

On 8/7/2018 at 8:50 AM, NeoBokrug Elytis said:

This is the dumbest thing I've read this month.

 

I said resources. Do you know what resources are? Did you know that money is a resource? If LL cut their expenses on SL, that gives them money to run Sansar which has NO INCOME. Shutting down hundreds / thousands of servers would give LL a lot of cash to use to run Sansar. Prove me wrong. Or just continue to insult because you can't......

[Coffee Pancake]

Kinda hard to prove someone wrong when they cite conjecture and speculation as their argument.

[Sharie Criss]

On 8/12/2018 at 12:50 AM, Parhelion Palou said:

I didn't want to get into too many details. The point was that Sansar and SL are not sharing the same computing resources. Even when eventually SL moves to the cloud SL and Sansar will still be separate. LL isn't stealing computing resources from SL to run Sansar.

Genius, money is a resource. They are stealing money from SL to fund Sansar. Where do you think the money is coming from to fund Sansar? The VR fairy? 

[Sharie Criss]

4 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Kinda hard to prove someone wrong when they cite conjecture and speculation as their argument.

Then provide facts on Sansar's funding. Where is the money coming from?

[Sharie Criss]

Since nobody is going to be able to say where the money came from to fund Sansar, let me provide some additional information.

 

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/secondlife/funding_rounds/funding_rounds_list

 

Linden Labs has not had an outside influx of cash since 2006. The money for Sansar can only have come from one place - regular income. What is Linden Lab's source of income? Second Life. They don't have another source. 

 

Figure it out people. 1+1=2.

 

[Coffee Pancake]

The Lab are allowed, and expected, to diversify their portfolio. Sansar's existence doesn't mean Second Life automatically has to suffer in some way. Active development on SL has been pretty solid for a long while now, only a lot of that work has been put into infrastructure which while important, isn't sexy enough to get people excited, so the Lab haven't made a huge deal out of it.

30 minutes ago, Sharie Criss said:

Genius, money is a resource. They are stealing money from SL to fund Sansar. 

That's not how businesses work. Not even a little bit.

Blizzard didn't steal money from Warcraft to make Overwatch.

Edited August 22, 2018 by CoffeeDujour

[Sharie Criss]

Please exp

53 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

The Lab are allowed, and expected, to diversify their portfolio. Sansar's existence doesn't mean Second Life automatically has to suffer in some way. Active development on SL has been pretty solid for a long while now, only a lot of that work has been put into infrastructure which while important, isn't sexy enough to get people excited, so the Lab haven't made a huge deal out of it.

That's not how businesses work. Not even a little bit.

Blizzard didn't steal money from Warcraft to make Overwatch.

Please explain the cause of the dramatic overnight increase in lag where Mono benchmark performance dropped by 50%. Please explain the draining of development resources from SL that got transferred to Sansar (this was publicly announced.) Please explain the severe reduction of support to the point where we can't even get a crashed region restarted during non-business hours (which is really fun when it happens on a Friday night.) I could go on and on here. You can't rewrite history, these are facts. The bottom line is that Linden Labs has reduced their expenditures on SL dramatically. The new development being done is done at a snails pace  in an attempt to not cause a mass exodus ("We aren't abandoning SL, really!!!! Trust us!")   This is how business works. Linden Labs is seeing SL as an eventual dead end and and wants to be in VR badly - so much so that they are willing to sacrifice SL in the process, but is doing  it in a way that makes it not so obvious until you look under the covers. Seriously, you don't expect them to flat out say "SL is dead and we are moving on" do you? Their income would dry up to nothing and they would be out of business. But sure, keep kidding yourself thinking that the VR fairy dumped truckloads of cash on Linden Labs to do Sansar. Sansar is an ENORMOUSLY expensive undertaking. I'm not faulting LL for wanting to continue to live by investing in a new platform that they see is their future, but this comes at a cost. That cost is our ability to enjoy SL because of the sacrifices made. Spending the kind of cash that I do on SL (which has been a LOT over the years, it's my core hobby) it does bother me that LL is refusing to address the white elephant in the room that is increased lag. 

When Linden Labs does not have another source of income, it's naive in the extreme to refuse to believe that the money to fund Sansar is not at the expense of SL infrastructure, support, and development. I have a bridge I'd like to sell if you are interested....

Regarding Blizzard, since you wanted to bring something totally not relevant into the discussion, Blizzard was making a TON of money on Warcraft and had enough left over to do Overwatch. This is NOT the same case with LL - LL had to make a choice - SL or Sansar because they did NOT have a heaping big pile of profit lying around. They were barely making ends meet and laid off 30% of their staff to cut costs. The remaining staff had to be split - the Sansar Future and the small team to just keep SL alive long enough to get them there.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Sharie Criss

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 hours ago, Sharie Criss said:

Genius, money is a resource. They are stealing money from SL to fund Sansar. Where do you think the money is coming from to fund Sansar? The VR fairy? 

https://venturebeat.com/2018/07/23/sansar-and-intel-remake-the-smithsonian-art-of-burning-man-exhibit-in-vr/

[Coffee Pancake]

3 hours ago, Sharie Criss said:

Please explain the cause of the dramatic overnight increase in lag where Mono benchmark performance dropped by 50%.

Citation needed, especially as there is no established way to benchmark mono performance in SL.

3 hours ago, Sharie Criss said:

Please explain the draining of development resources from SL that got transferred to Sansar (this was publicly announced.)

How LL manages there developers is there business. It is routine for developers to move from project to project, problem to problem.

3 hours ago, Sharie Criss said:

Please explain the severe reduction of support to the point where we can't even get a crashed region restarted during non-business hours (which is really fun when it happens on a Friday night.) I could go on and on here. You can't rewrite history, these are facts.

These are you assertions, I've had regions restarted within minutes over a weekend, requested one very recently.

3 hours ago, Sharie Criss said:

The bottom line is that Linden Labs has reduced their expenditures on SL dramatically. The new development being done is done at a snails pace  in an attempt to not cause a mass exodus ("We aren't abandoning SL, really!!!! Trust us!")   

The slow pace of development on projects such as Animesh and BoM are for our benefit. It takes a significant amount of time to work with residents to develop a well thought out and well tested solution. It often takes significant time for us to get up to speed and product test content or fully express what we would like from a feature. This slow pace is a good thing.

Back-end projects continue at much faster pace, there are easily half a dozen public facing viewer projects, many things require server changes and getting them though the RC process and QC takes time, LL do not just randomly bang on things anymore.

3 hours ago, Sharie Criss said:

This is how business works. Linden Labs is seeing SL as an eventual dead end and and wants to be in VR badly - so much so that they are willing to sacrifice SL in the process, but is doing  it in a way that makes it not so obvious until you look under the covers. Seriously, you don't expect them to flat out say "SL is dead and we are moving on" do you? Their income would dry up to nothing and they would be out of business. But sure, keep kidding yourself thinking that the VR fairy dumped truckloads of cash on Linden Labs to do Sansar. Sansar is an ENORMOUSLY expensive undertaking. I'm not faulting LL for wanting to continue to live by investing in a new platform that they see is their future, but this comes at a cost. That cost is our ability to enjoy SL because of the sacrifices made. Spending the kind of cash that I do on SL (which has been a LOT over the years, it's my core hobby) it does bother me that LL is refusing to address the white elephant in the room that is increased lag. 

All products have a life span, SL is no exception. It is a good thing that LL are exploring other spaces, even if those spaces to not pan out immediately. It is good business sense to make hay while the sun shines, and while it might be a little late in SL's day to continue the metaphor, the sun is still up.

SL lives and dies by it's users.

There is no code LL can write that will divert SL from it's current course.

Sure, we could have nicer tools, but the end user experience depends more on us than it does LL, we we're the ones who make and do all the things that make SL what it is.

Just like it's wrong to pin the decline of your personal SL on the Lab. They aren't to blame.

3 hours ago, Sharie Criss said:

This is NOT the same case with LL - LL had to make a choice - SL or Sansar because they did NOT have a heaping big pile of profit lying around. They were barely making ends meet and laid off 30% of their staff to cut costs. The remaining staff had to be split - the Sansar Future and the small team to just keep SL alive long enough to get them there.

Citation needed....

[Qie Niangao]

I'd be very interested to know what is meant by "Mono benchmark performance dropped by 50%." For one thing, it would be cool to have such benchmarks, but also: In recent months I do subjectively observe more regions with script lag (no Spare Time and substantially less than 100% scripts executed each frame).

Snooping around, I've almost always found breedables to explain the occurrence of script lag. I've attributed my increased observation of the lag more to my own increased dependence on timely scripts: it's super obvious that scripts are lagging each other when it takes a minute to open an avatar HUD's alpha-cuts panel, even though the sim is running perfectly fine except for scripts. And of course it's no surprise at all that crowded regions script-lag more now that everybody has an avatar HUD plus a Bento mesh head to animate by HUD, (etc., etc.) all competing for scheduler slots.

But I've had this nagging thought: maybe it's not merely subjective and artifactual. Maybe sims' script-handling capacity has diminished. I doubt it, but I can't disprove it.

[Phil Deakins]

9 hours ago, Sharie Criss said:

Genius, money is a resource. They are stealing money from SL to fund Sansar. Where do you think the money is coming from to fund Sansar? The VR fairy? 

Stealing from SL? SL doesn't have any money to steal. Perhaps you mean that Linden Lab is stealing from Linden Lab to fund Sansar. Oh wait! Linden Lab already owns the money, so they can't steal it. The best they can do is divert it, but divert it from what? From funding SL? You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Linden Lab's statement that profits from SL will be ploughed back into SL. The reason I don't recall it is because they never said it.

Is that proof enough for you? Or do you prefer Fantasyland?

Of course LL is using SL profits to fund Sansar. That goes without saying. But it's not stealing, and it's not contrary to expectations - that businesses use profits to fund expansion, diversions, etc. We don't have any right at all to expect all SL profits to be ploughed back into SL. You are baying at the moon if you think it should be any different.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[NeoBokrug Elytis]

13 hours ago, Sharie Criss said:

I said resources.

For the future, I guess maybe you should clarify then.  The subject of the sentence I quoted was the performance of servers and regions.  In that same sentence you said "resources to Sansar".  Any competent person would follow that sentence and come to the conclusion the resources you speak of are servers or regions.  There is not one single mention of money.  You should have said just said money instead of resources.

In an online forum where the written word is everything to convey your argument, it's very important you convey your message correctly.

[NeoBokrug Elytis]

4 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

But I've had this nagging thought: maybe it's not merely subjective and artifactual. Maybe sims' script-handling capacity has diminished. I doubt it, but I can't disprove it.

Just for the record, I've noticed the same thing over the past two years... maybe?

I think it has to do with all the logging of region "things" that LL has been adding over the years.  If you look at region release notes for the past two years, it's pretty much all "more internal logging".

Scripts Executed is my go to stat now in determining region health.  Time Dilation and Physics usually say everything is just fine.  But when Scripts Executed gets below a certain threshold (65%), things that rely on scripts (pretty much everything), start to break down.

[Coffee Pancake]

5 hours ago, NeoBokrug Elytis said:

I think it has to do with all the logging of region "things" that LL has been adding over the years.  If you look at region release notes for the past two years, it's pretty much all "more internal logging".

They always make a not of when logging is added, but they don't mention when logging has been removed. It's pretty normal to add some logging when testing or developing or debugging a feature and we have to assume the lab do some clean up simply to keep logs readable.

9 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

I'd be very interested to know what is meant by "Mono benchmark performance dropped by 50%." For one thing, it would be cool to have such benchmarks, but also: In recent months I do subjectively observe more regions with script lag (no Spare Time and substantially less than 100% scripts executed each frame).

From our own testing, a single pathfinding object can significantly change the spread of timings on a region. I cant say I've noticed any scripts running noticeably slower so long as there is spare time, but then I'm not in the habit of writing script that does anything meaningfully complex.

 

I think an open source script benchmark would be a great idea. I'm made a thread just for that - 

 

[Parhelion Palou]

On 8/22/2018 at 7:19 PM, Sharie Criss said:

Regarding Blizzard, since you wanted to bring something totally not relevant into the discussion, Blizzard was making a TON of money on Warcraft and had enough left over to do Overwatch. This is NOT the same case with LL - LL had to make a choice - SL or Sansar because they did NOT have a heaping big pile of profit lying around. They were barely making ends meet and laid off 30% of their staff to cut costs. The remaining staff had to be split - the Sansar Future and the small team to just keep SL alive long enough to get them there.

SL has been profitable (very profitable) for LL for several years. The era you're referring to was years ago. Some SL developers may have gone to Sansar, but most were hired for the job. For that matter, lately a few Sansar developers have moved to the SL team, possibly to work on the project to move SL to the cloud. The SL developers are doing much more new development work on SL than they have in past years, and Linden Lab has been much more responsive.

[Sharie Criss]

On 8/23/2018 at 3:33 AM, Phil Deakins said:

Stealing from SL? SL doesn't have any money to steal. Perhaps you mean that Linden Lab is stealing from Linden Lab to fund Sansar. Oh wait! Linden Lab already owns the money, so they can't steal it. The best they can do is divert it, but divert it from what? From funding SL? You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Linden Lab's statement that profits from SL will be ploughed back into SL. The reason I don't recall it is because they never said it.

Is that proof enough for you? Or do you prefer Fantasyland?

Of course LL is using SL profits to fund Sansar. That goes without saying. But it's not stealing, and it's not contrary to expectations - that businesses use profits to fund expansion, diversions, etc. We don't have any right at all to expect all SL profits to be ploughed back into SL. You are baying at the moon if you think it should be any different.

I realize it's a difficult concept to grasp, but when I'm paying for a region, and LL does "something" which causes the region I'm paying for to now perform horribly basically destroying the usability of my venue, I think I have a right to be upset that they are taking the operating revenue from SL and using it for something else. These aren't profits. SL doesn't have any.

[Sharie Criss]

On 8/22/2018 at 11:29 PM, CoffeeDujour said:

 

Citation needed....

 https://www.google.com/search?q=linden+labs+layoffs

There are other rather simple searches you can do too. While LL is a private company and most of the data is not public, you can find enough searching various data sources and news outlets to get a pretty clear picture of what's happening internally. 

Performance benchmarks were from my own mono torture test script that takes about 10 -20 minutes to run. The experienced / connected people in SL who have been here a long time can see the changes - feel the changes. No, there's not a lot of hard data especially when LL is so tight lipped about the infrastructure, but when you spend a lot of time day in and day out over many many years, it's painfully obvious that systems are no longer performing well.

Why am I writing this and responding? Because I care and it bothers me that this is happening.  I want LL to succeed really, but I would not be making the same choices they are. For example, I would look at server balancing strategies that put consistently busy regions on servers that only have very lightly loaded regions. or giving the option of doubling RAM / CPU for busy venues. I would investigate the possibility of putting empty regions into a "light sleep" mode where they only use a fraction of regular resources until someone enters the region. SL is a social platform. You can't size your systems for empty regions. You have to accommodate the fact that maybe, just maybe, people in a social platform may - gee, I don't know - be together in the same place. There's lot of room for performance improvements but nothing will get better unless you are willing to admit that a problem exists and are willing to actually address existing problems. Or you can be a defeatist - "SL is dead. Move on."

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Sharie Criss said:

Why am I writing this and responding? Because I care and it bothers me that this is happening.  I want LL to succeed really, but I would not be making the same choices they are. For example, I would look at server balancing strategies that put consistently busy regions on servers that only have very lightly loaded regions. or giving the option of doubling RAM / CPU for busy venues. I would investigate the possibility of putting empty regions into a "light sleep" mode where they only use a fraction of regular resources until someone enters the region. SL is a social platform. You can't size your systems for empty regions. You have to accommodate the fact that maybe, just maybe, people in a social platform may - gee, I don't know - be together in the same place. There's lot of room for performance improvements but nothing will get better unless you are willing to admit that a problem exists and are willing to actually address existing problems. Or you can be a defeatist - "SL is dead. Move on."

Like they did over six years ago?

 

[ChinRey]

On 8/23/2018 at 12:05 AM, CoffeeDujour said:

Kinda hard to prove someone wrong when they cite conjecture and speculation as their argument.

Good point. I didn't notice this thread until somebody mentioned it to me a minute ago and I'm not quite up to date with what has been said already so maybe I'm repeating things already said.

What I've noticed are sudden peaks in ping time lasting a second or two followed by a huge peak in the server's frame time. This happens regularly every few minutes and it happens at all sims I've been to and also the sims people I've discussed it with have visitied. What obviously happens is that the server is overloaded and stalled for a second or three. It's hard to pinpoint exactly what causes it though. In the detailed frame time list, it usually shows up as Net Time but not always, sometimes it's Simulation Time, sometimes Agent Time and it may well be others I haven't noticed too. On one occasion Coniston's Agent Time peaked at well over 40 ms while I was alone in the sim and standing still.

Another peculiarity I've seen at Coniston only (I don't have statistics for other sims about this), is that earlier this year script time increased to about four times what it used to be even though there hadn't been any significant changes in the scripts the sim was running. Today it has dropped to half of that - twice of what it used to be with no changes in the actual scripts running at all.

Edited September 8, 2018 by ChinRey

[Macrocosm Draegonne]

Many fine points made here I will try and keep in mind when scripting & dealing with land.

I have noticed additional script lag in places too, and I wondered if something has changed making them more taxing, perhaps they're doing an internal logging and audit to more fully observe all the things?  Adding a bunch of extra load would be expected if such a thing is ongoing.  Perhaps there are LSL changes in the works.  IMO it would be great to add some additional scripting languages to the mix, any that are better suited to particular aspects, especially in regard to their potential performance gains & optimization.

On the Avatar TP thing, it may be that some are of such high complexity its a major strain?  I have seen avatars scoring in the millions on complexity, even if they're jelly dolls that still must be a strain on the system.  Perhaps a rule on max complexity to TP out of your property to another, like drunk driving rules ya know? ...so 2mill avatars aren't sim hopping lol.  Would that even help? 

Ive seen the arguments about complexity score, but its the best we've got, and I will be installing drones to boot people who have too many scripts or too high complexity if im running a whole sim.  The landing zone will sort the wheat from the chaff as best as I can configure.  it'd be nice if this could be done as a pre-entry lobby or handshake somehow, but AFAICT they have to actually land before I can detect their complexity and script load & give them a warning.  An avatar with millions complexity score is like a whole complex build with legs lol, some so high even a whole sim wouldn't have that many tri's at the ground level. XD  Hopefully bakes on mesh is going to be a boon for lowering complexity.

Edit:
To the other points on Sansar vs SL, I think its great to diversify, but, lets be real, they're two really different things that are mutually beneficial, we've already gotten some goodies back from the Sansar side to the SL Mothership, its a symbiotic relationship, like Kombucha, 100% a good thing. ?

Edited September 22, 2018 by Macrocosm Draegonne

[Ana Stubbs]

1 hour ago, Macrocosm Draegonne said:

Ive seen the arguments about complexity score, but its the best we've got, and I will be installing drones to boot people who have too many scripts or too high complexity if im running a whole sim.

The sim's already done the heavy lifting once they teleport in. If you kick them out, it's got it all to do again when they come back.

[Macrocosm Draegonne]

6 minutes ago, Ana Stubbs said:

The sim's already done the heavy lifting once they teleport in. If you kick them out, it's got it all to do again when they come back.

Yeah, thats why in extreme need situations (gaming sim, event, etc) a pre-lobby or pre accept TP check would be best, I suppose the simplest way (using current stuff) would be a pre-entry landing zone on another sim lol, but really thats probably not needed if you just warn people usually they will remove some things and lower their complexity before they get booted, that benefits everyone in the SIM either way.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Macrocosm Draegonne

[Klytyna]

8 hours ago, Macrocosm Draegonne said:

IMO it would be great to add some additional scripting languages to the mix, any that are better suited to particular aspects, especially in regard to their potential performance gains & optimization.

No...

Adding "additional scripting languages" would simply add complication to the system, while doing absolutely nothing to reduce server load or "optimise performance".

An utterly useless idea.

8 hours ago, Macrocosm Draegonne said:

On the Avatar TP thing, it may be that some are of such high complexity its a major strain?

RCI (Render Complexity Index) is an ESTIMATE of how difficult it is to render an avatar on YOUR computer... It has almost NOTHING to do with simulation server performance, as the sim servers do NOT render any of your avatar at all, nothing.

8 hours ago, Macrocosm Draegonne said:

Perhaps a rule on max complexity to TP out of your property to another, like drunk driving rules ya know? ...so 2mill avatars aren't sim hopping lol.  Would that even help?

No. Completely and utterly bloody useless...

8 hours ago, Macrocosm Draegonne said:

and I will be installing drones to boot people who have too many scripts or too high complexity if im running a whole sim.  The landing zone will sort the wheat from the chaff as best as I can configure.

People's RCI has almost nothing to do with the performance of a region it's self, it's a measure of estimated CLIENT side performance hits, NOT server side, so booting people for having "high complexity" to reduce sim lag is...

Yup you guessed it, completely and utterly bloody useless.

It's just an arbitary excuse for insta-booting randomly selected visitors based on YOUR assumptions of what constitutes "excessive complexity".

You might as well script an auto booter to eject people for having user names with a "Z" in them, it would make as much sense.

As for "too many scripts", how many is too many?. Script memory, that favorite of the tech-illiterate SL-Fossil brigade is also less than useful, we have this stuff now called "mono compiled script", which ALWAYS reports memory usage as 64k, even when in fact it's a lot less.

Script cpu time is a better measure, but it's the one that seems to be least used.

8 hours ago, Macrocosm Draegonne said:

it'd be nice if this could be done as a pre-entry lobby or handshake somehow

"If wish were dishes, we'd all eat like Kings..."

But installing a "pre tp lobby, would basically mean creating some insanely complicated segregated mini sim system, with a double TP setup, you tp into the "Scripter Fossils of 2006" mini sim, get booted from that for some pointless reason and never actually tp to The Sim that Brains Forgot" at all...

8 hours ago, Macrocosm Draegonne said:

An avatar with millions complexity score is like a whole complex build with legs lol, some so high even a whole sim wouldn't have that many tri's at the ground level. XD

Actually, it tends to be the other way round... Tech-illiterate people, Ancient ARC Bigots for example, whine and moan about somebody who TP's in with an RCI over 50k, while they have built their sim's landing area so badly that it would, if it was attached to an avatar, have an RCI of 20-30 MILLION...

8 hours ago, Macrocosm Draegonne said:

Hopefully bakes on mesh is going to be a boon for lowering complexity.

Dream on... BakeFail on Mesh is almost worthless in the age of mesh clothing, mesh hair, mesh jewelery etc...

The majority of the people clamouring for BFoM, are ancient system only skin & clothing makers who think it will revive the businesses that basically stopped selling significant amounts of product, 5 years ago.

8 hours ago, Macrocosm Draegonne said:

To the other points on Sansar vs SL, I think its great to diversify, but, lets be real, they're two really different things that are mutually beneficial, we've already gotten some goodies back from the Sansar side to the SL Mothership, its a symbiotic relationship, like Kombucha, 100% a good thing. ?

Goodies back from Project Stupid? Name one?

7 hours ago, Macrocosm Draegonne said:

I suppose the simplest way (using current stuff) would be a pre-entry landing zone on another sim lol,

LOL indeed... People TP to an event but instead arrive on a different sim, where a lag tech ARC Bigot device destroys sim performance by spamming and booting people over things that have little or no effect on sim performance, then the lucky few to make it past the guantlet, lag the "customs inpection sim" AND the actual event sim with a second set of TP's or sim crossings...

One of the biggest performance hits on a busy sim with "heavy avatars" is their arrival and departure, scripts starting up and shutting down, because both events involve heavy server to server activity between the sim servers and the asset servers.

When an avatar LEAVES a sim, the current state of every script in every prim of every linkset in it's inventory, and every parameter of those prims, the colour and texture on all faces, the float text, particles, EVERYTHING gets updated on the asset servers, and when the avatar arrives on the destination sim, that data gets sucked down off the asset servers, at least in part...

Sim servers do not keep a "change log" of your inventory, what you rezzed, edited and picked up again while there, or what you put on or took off, they just update the lot, the more TP stages you add in moving from one place to another, the more Sim Sever lag you create.

7 hours ago, Macrocosm Draegonne said:

but really thats probably not needed if you just warn people usually they will remove some things and lower their complexity before they get booted

Actually what often happens is this...

"Morons of SL Inc... LagTech... ARC Bigot... Spambooter... 2006 Edition... *chug whir creak* Has Detected... That an...

*chug whir laaaaaag* Arbitary Number... *chug whir* With Almost NO... *chug whir* Effect on sim lag... is... higher... than *chug whir* a random arbitary number... *creak groan* chosen by a tech-illiterate... idiot... *creak chug whir*

You have... *creak* 10 seconds to reduce your arbitary number of ... be booted, your time starts... *chug whir* 15 seconds ago...

You have been ejected from the Region "Clueless SL Fossils of 2006" kThxBai"

7 hours ago, Macrocosm Draegonne said:

that benefits everyone in the SIM either way.

No, not really...

HINT:

If you intend to "fight server side lag", MAYBE you should take the trouble to find out what CAUSES server side lag first...

HINT:

Learing how to delag your builds for example, by eliminating as much of the alpha blended textures from it, avoiding physical set prims or linksets, avoiding pathfinding scripted wandering npc's ( Animesh will no doubt see an explosion of such horrors ) etc.

Eliminating damn awful llSensor scripted "detectors" from the "Olden Times" before the existence of people called "[something] Resident" , such as ancient ARC kickers, script counters, greeter spammers, security orbs etc., also helps.
 

[Theresa Tennyson]

3 hours ago, Klytyna said:

If you intend to "fight server side lag", MAYBE you should take the trouble to find out what CAUSES server side lag first...

HINT:

Learing how to delag your builds for example, by eliminating as much of the alpha blended textures from it, avoiding physical set prims or linksets, avoiding pathfinding scripted wandering npc's ( Animesh will no doubt see an explosion of such horrors ) etc.

Eliminating damn awful llSensor scripted "detectors" from the "Olden Times" before the existence of people called "[something] Resident" , such as ancient ARC kickers, script counters, greeter spammers, security orbs etc., also helps.
 

1) How would alpha blended textures have any influence on the server? Rendering is entirely viewer-side.

2) The additional physics time that pathfinding characters use comes out of script time instead of general frame time and someone has piffled very authoritatively that scripts don't cause server lag because the time per frame scripts can use is capped.