Do you think people will continue buying Lindens with price change?

[Kyrah Abattoir]

3 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

This is off-topic, but may not warrant a separate thread: How do folks feel about openSpace regions getting discontinued?

They must have been wildly unpopular, I guess, but I thought they were a cool idea.

Same, but i'd put it down to the fact they where never finantially attractive.

[Qie Niangao]

14 minutes ago, MegaRose said:

Which would eventually lure more people into premium.

That's interesting. Even without further sweetening the Premium stipend, hiking the L$ purchase fee does improve the value proposition of Premium because of the existing stipend.

[Ceka Cianci]

I get anywhere from 10 to 20k at a time,so I doubt I'll notice any increase really..

I didn't even realize the last one until someone told me there was one..

hehehe

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, Callum Meriman said:

Many will have GF regions already and those are not reduced in price, so no, I doubt it.

and lots of them don't calculate grandfathered rents to their customers..... some did let renters buy down to grandfathered in those days, renters left and they keep the grandfathered regions for full prices.

So now everybody knows the prices are down, they will need to lower rentals.

[Phorumities]

5 hours ago, AmandaKeen said:

LL historically has a spotty record when they meddle in economics; for all the reasons listed in the preceding posts. If they based their revenue model on the # of transactions remaining the same as before the increase in the transaction fee; I suspect that cannibas or alcohol was involved :-)

When I was in my early 20’s, I learned not to balance my checkbook while well into a bottle of wine..........

 

its a common belief that if you raise the tax on something it will generate more income, when more often than not the opposite is true. It's a lesson the Democratic Party has never learned and probably never will.

*if only those horrible rich people can be forced to pay their fair share, everything would be perfect*

[Callum Meriman]

38 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

So now everybody knows the prices are down, they will need to lower rentals.

Price of a GF hasn't reduced. I can't speak for other landlords, but I can't reduce my prices - I already work pretty much on break even.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Callum Meriman

[Phorumities]

36 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

and lots of them don't calculate grandfathered rents to their customers..... some did let renters buy down to grandfathered in those days, renters left and they keep the grandfathered regions for full prices.

So now everybody knows the prices are down, they will need to lower rentals.

its not possible to price gouge people on parcel rents, the competition is too fierce. I suspect most sim owners operate on a very slim profit margin.

oh and the very best way to save money on parcel rents?

rent a smaller parcel.

Its a sad commentary on our modern world that too many people are unable to differentiate between wants and needs

[Alwin Alcott]

3 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

Price of a GF hasn't reduced. As such I can't reduce my prices - I already work on break even.

the line above

37 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

lots of them don't calculate grandfathered rents to their customers..... some did let renters buy down to grandfathered in those days, renters left and they keep the grandfathered regions for full prices.

 

[Kyrah Abattoir]

1 minute ago, Phorumities said:

its not possible to price gouge people on parcel rents, the competition is too fierce. I suspect most sim owners operate on a very slim profit margin.

oh and the very best way to save money on parcel rents?

rent a smaller parcel.

Its a sad commentary on our modern world that too many people are unable to differentiate between wants and needs

I rent to a couple friends but I make absolutely no profit on it, it just offsets some of the fees, I could have used a 15% off on grandfathered yes. But oh well

[Alwin Alcott]

1 minute ago, Phorumities said:

its not possible to price gouge people on parcel rents, the competition is too fierce. I suspect most sim owners operate on a very slim profit margin.

oh and the very best way to save money on parcel rents?

rent a smaller parcel.

Its a sad commentary on our modern world that too many people are unable to differentiate between wants and needs

read the post before you reply?

they do rent out at non grandfathered prices while they let previous renters pay the downbuy for it. So now they háve to lower it.

[Callum Meriman]

Just now, Alwin Alcott said:

the line above

Ah well, time will tell Alwin I know a lot of people renting homesteads would enjoy seeing the price drop down from 7500-ish a week

[Amanda Crisp]

1 hour ago, Phil Deakins said:

@AmandaKeen

So suggesting they made decisions when they were either drunk or high was you "having run a business", right?

I think I'm right in saying that LL have actually run a business, believe it or not, and quite possibly a slightly larger one than you have run.

Phil, that was Humor...... it’s in the Wikipedia :-) Maybe look under “poor humor” as that’s my usual brand :-)

My experience with large corporations is that they only operate as astutely as their last Management change, and sometimes ideaology or groupthink can lead formerly sharp operations teams in strange directions. (Google Glass or coca-cola’s brief flirtation with “New Coke” anyone?)

My guess is that there is more of a funding plan involved here than simply “lower land prices and offset with increased L$ transaction fees” and it wasn’t communicated at this time. Marketing strategies rarely get totally verbalized to the customer being marketed-to :-)

In a minuscule sense, driving up the L$ transaction rate gives a small month-over-month advantage to landowners over renters. Renters must buy L$ to pay rent unless they have an inworld Gig. Land owners paying Tier are paying LL directly and therefore don’t HAVE to buy Lindens for that purpose. 

Thats not enough to really matter but it does differentiate “renter” from “landowner” a bit, and LL might prefer Landowners for the regularly scheduled income (altho both types come and go fairly fluidly).

Hopefully LL has a game plan to keep SL financially secure for many years to come :-)

[clivesteel]

LL should FORCE greedy landowners to reduce rent! It's the only way to ensure SL's survival.

Imagine how glorious it would be if all SL renters hit refund and then refused to pay...they could put these wannabe Trumps out of business in hours...how satisfying it would be to see the landowners come crawling back with timid apologies and reducing their fees...why not make it happen, today?

[Callum Meriman]

(Edit: just saying this in general, not to Clive's imbecilic statement above)

If we consider the lab know how many lindex purchases there are each month, and they know the change in human behavior when they listed it from $0,40 to $0,99  - so they likely have a fair idea of exactly how much money they expect.

They certainly know how many private regions are not grandfathered, so know to a cent how much is on the other side. There will be some very minor changes in increased region purchases, but I really don't see it stemming the slow decay we are used to.

They will have those two things balanced.

The biggest thing from this though, is that anyone selling their GF region will likely now get less for it if they sell. Initial setups are cut in half, and the benefit of a GF - especially at Homestead level - is also cut in half (95 vs 109 where it used to be 95 vs 125) -- if you are paying a premium of a few hundred for a GF homestead, then the time until you recover that is now x/$14 months where it used to be x/$30 months)

Really, with the higher transfer fee for GF, the lower setup for new, and only US$14/Month difference in tier, I am not sure that buying a second hand GF homestead is viable any more.

And I don't see this as the last drop.

 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Callum Meriman

[bigmoe Whitfield]

7 minutes ago, clivesteel said:

LL should FORCE greedy landowners to reduce rent! It's the only way to ensure SL's survival.

Imagine how glorious it would be if all SL renters hit refund and then refused to pay...they could put these wannabe Trumps out of business in hours...how satisfying it would be to see the landowners come crawling back with timid apologies and reducing their fees...why not make it happen, today?

How about ROFL! 

[Phorumities]

1 hour ago, Alwin Alcott said:

read the post before you reply?

they do rent out at non grandfathered prices while they let previous renters pay the downbuy for it. So now they háve to lower it.

yes i did read it. and i replied to it.

thank you for your concern

[Phorumities]

14 minutes ago, clivesteel said:

LL should FORCE greedy landowners to reduce rent! It's the only way to ensure SL's survival.

Imagine how glorious it would be if all SL renters hit refund and then refused to pay...they could put these wannabe Trumps out of business in hours...how satisfying it would be to see the landowners come crawling back with timid apologies and reducing their fees...why not make it happen, today?

you must be a socialist in rl.

id call you a communist but id probably be reprimanded

on the other hand your whole post might be in jest so....

lol good one 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Phorumities
spelling

[Love Zhaoying]

How many L$ do you have to buy for the L$ you bought to exceed the new transaction fee?

[Callum Meriman]

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

How many L$ do you have to buy for the L$ you bought to exceed the new transaction fee?

50 cents worth, so around 130ish lindens.

Edit: Well, that is extra on top of the old US$0,99 fee. As a total US$1,50 is L$390-ish

Edited June 21, 2018 by Callum Meriman

[Alwin Alcott]

38 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

The biggest thing from this though, is that anyone selling their GF region will likely now get less for it if they sell. Initial setups are cut in half, and the benefit of a GF - especially at Homestead level - is also cut in half (95 vs 109 where it used to be 95 vs 125) -- if you are paying a premium of a few hundred for a GF homestead, then the time until you recover that is now x/$14 months where it used to be x/$30 months)

worst thing is it will only seriously effect the smaller businesses and private owners.

The big ones are in the Atlas program, or like the Chung's on their own servers

[Qie Niangao]

It always puzzled me that they didn't continue the offer to buy-down to grandfathered tier. If they had, though, and then announced this change, folks who bought down just before the announcement might justly feel misused.

[Pamela Galli]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

It always puzzled me that they didn't continue the offer to buy-down to grandfathered tier. If they had, though, and then announced this change, folks who bought down just before the announcement might justly feel misused.

Yes we might. (It cost me $2400 usd to buy down my four regions.)

[ellestones]

9 hours ago, Phorumities said:

its a common belief that if you raise the tax on something it will generate more income, when more often than not the opposite is true.

even a supply-side economist like Laffer would raise his eyebrows at this statement

Laffer argues that increasing the tax rate when the current rate is below T* (Revenue Maximising Tax Rate) increases revenue. When the rate is above T* only then does it decrease revenue

using Laffer as the measure, then the questions for LL were: Was the old rate of 0.99 above or below T* ?  Was the previous tiers regime above or below T* ?

from their actions we can surmise that LL calculated 0.99 was below T* and tiers were above T*

[Callum Meriman]

Just now, Qie Niangao said:

It always puzzled me that they didn't continue the offer to buy-down to grandfathered tier. If they had, though, and then announced this change, folks who bought down just before the announcement might justly feel misused.

There was still a roaring business in buydown regions. What we see on the forums is maybe 10% of what happens in a few well known groups.

But it's going to be shot now, taking the transfer of full GF region sold by someone for US$2000 (look in the forums to see that price) vs buying new:

New Price                                                                                                   $2000 GF

349 (Including first month teir) then $249 a month                           $195 a month

So, GF over new is now only US$55 a month cheaper. That makes buying old GF regions less attractive. As the first month is free in the US$349 the cost of a new setup is US$100. So, US$1900 needs to be amortised if it's a resale...

1900/55 = 34 months before you break even.

Is it really worth buying a GF Full region for 2K now if it takes three years before you break even?

On the other hand, if you want to sell and get your US$600 setup back and forget the $600 you paid for GF, then it's going to be a US$1200 sale (600 back and 600 transfer) Amortisation is 1100/55 = 20 months.

Even 20 months is too much in today's climate - we will see more price drops before then.

 

By not reducing GF prices the lab have erased resale value for all those small time people who helped Ebbe fund Sansar.

 

[Phorumities]

2 hours ago, ellestones said:

even a supply-side economist like Laffer would raise his eyebrows at this statement

Laffer argues that increasing the tax rate when the current rate is below T* (Revenue Maximising Tax Rate) increases revenue. When the rate is above T* only then does it decrease revenue

using Laffer as the measure, then the questions for LL were: Was the old rate of 0.99 above or below T* ?  Was the previous tiers regime above or below T* ?

from their actions we can surmise that LL calculated 0.99 was below T* and tiers were above T*

They don't consider that since the fee is a flat rate instead of a percentage of lindens sold, that people will make fewer but larger purchases of Lindens. As so many people do, they assume people's actions will not change after a fee increase.

Old fee: 99 cents times 1 purchase of  10,000 L per week generates $3.97  every 4 weeks

new fee: $1.49  times 1 purchase of 40,000 L once every 4 weeks generates $1.49 every 4 weeks

If enough people do this LL will make less money regardless of what Laffer says. 

If they want to increase revenue by raising the rate, they need to make the fee a percentage of Lindens bought, NOT a flat rate increase. THEN Laffer's effect will happen. Because, buy once a week, or once a month, the total fee after 4 weeks will be the same

Edited June 22, 2018 by Phorumities
deleted a duplicate word