Are Free Accounts Throttled

[Prokofy Neva]

I do have hard data that you don't, Rolig Loon.

I have years and years of experience with land right next to infohubs where bots frequently land.

What's interesting is that some infohubs have evidently never been designated as "bot return to" infohubs because I never see any bots there.

It is indeed poor management and negligence not only if you don't set home but that YOU DON'T WONDER WHERE YOUR BOT IS FOR DAYS ON END. HELLO!

THAT is really the issue.

For THAT there is no excuse.

Some traffic-sucking store owner may not bother to learn that he should set his bot a home, but why doesn't he wonder where his bot is for 1-3-7 days or more until the next sim reset -- and perhaps not even then???

Come and look at the bots in Iris and you'll see what I mean.

Having an army of 50 bots and not noticing one missing or ten missing isn't an excuse, either.

There's a simple solution here. Bots -- and people, too -- should be sent offline when a sim is reset and they don't move.

That way the bots will only be logged back on when their owner wakes up.

 

 

[Rolig Loon]

3 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

There's a simple solution here. Bots -- and people, too -- should be sent offline when a sim is reset and they don't move.

That way the bots will only be logged back on when their owner wakes up.

That's a sensible idea, regardless of which interpretation you choose to accept. I like it. 

Personally, I have great faith in the power of ignorance. I have plenty of my own, and I know how often it has led me into a pothole. I have found that my life is less stressful if I always begin with the assumption that a screw-up is either due to ignorance or an honest mistake than if I leap to the conclusion that the world is populated with saboteurs.  I leave it up to the occasional real saboteur to prove me wrong.  

[Solar Legion]

Oh yes, normal users never congregate at hubs..... 

Some actually do spend a bit of time at the various hubs. 

Oh and Bot accounts are logged out of their home simulator same as normal accounts are if they stick around while the Sim is going down. 

They get sent to the closest info hub when they log back in, then start trying to return to their proper location. 

The world doesn't operate according to your whims, dearie. Get used to it. 

[Phorumities]

5 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I do have hard data that you don't, Rolig Loon.

I have years and years of experience with land right next to infohubs where bots frequently land.

What's interesting is that some infohubs have evidently never been designated as "bot return to" infohubs because I never see any bots there.

It is indeed poor management and negligence not only if you don't set home but that YOU DON'T WONDER WHERE YOUR BOT IS FOR DAYS ON END. HELLO!

THAT is really the issue.

For THAT there is no excuse.

Some traffic-sucking store owner may not bother to learn that he should set his bot a home, but why doesn't he wonder where his bot is for 1-3-7 days or more until the next sim reset -- and perhaps not even then???

Come and look at the bots in Iris and you'll see what I mean.

Having an army of 50 bots and not noticing one missing or ten missing isn't an excuse, either.

There's a simple solution here. Bots -- and people, too -- should be sent offline when a sim is reset and they don't move.

That way the bots will only be logged back on when their owner wakes up.

 

 

When a sim is reset and you don't tp out in time, you aren't sent someplace else, you are logged out. Try it sometime and see

[Prokofy Neva]

1 hour ago, Phorumities said:

When a sim is reset and you don't tp out in time, you aren't sent someplace else, you are logged out. Try it sometime and see

Yes, that's true of islands.

When the Lindens do rolling restarts on the Mainland, I notice that sometimes you are pitched not offline but on to an infohub.

OR, if you are logged off, your home sim or place where you were isn't available, and it tells you that it had to put you "nearby" although often it isn't and it's usually an adult "safe hub" in Zindra which is annoying.

If what you said was true, none of those bots would be sitting on the infohub, they'd be LOGGED OFF.

Unless the bot programs include the ability to log back on automatically and THEN be pitched to another sim (as their home sim isn't ready online yet), what you're saying wouldn't make sense.

[Solar Legion]

It was explained to you already - though it seems a bit more explanation is in order.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Solar Legion

[Wulfie Reanimator]

10 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Gosh golly gee, The Raven Maven is starting to get it!

It was explained to you already - not that you'd have seen it as you have this tendency to Ignore or brush off anyone that doesn't dance to your tune or sing your praises.

Dude(tte). Calm down. The insults are unnecessary. If you can't keep them to yourself, go post in another thread instead.

But yes, almost any sort of bot (for anything, not just SL) runs independently of their login. When the avatar gets logged off, the actual bot program is still running on a computer somewhere. It will know it's not logged in, and it will try to log back in whenever it's configured to do so (probably immediately).

[Solar Legion]

Thanks but I am quite calm and not slinging any insults. I am unsure where you have been the last decade or so but all I did was describe the MO of that particular poster.

Though since only other posters here will actually see it, I suppose it is pointless. Meh. Whatever ..... I'll edit the post since most will find out in time anyway.

Have a nice evening.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Solar Legion

[Fionalein]

11 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

There's a simple solution here. Bots -- and people, too -- should be sent offline when a sim is reset and they don't move.

You should really log in more often ... guess what happens if you do not move on a restart?

4 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

If what you said was true, none of those bots would be sitting on the infohub, they'd be LOGGED OFF.

Yeah and then the bot's reconnect routine logs them back in and with sim unavailable they get dumped to the infohub... what do you win? 

PS: I wish it was more bots at the infohubs ... but usually it is folks with foul language on voice that hang around those places.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Fionalein

[Maitimo]

Avatars whose owners are 18 or over would get sent to a Zindra infohub, not one on old mainland. Just in case they're, you know, naked or something.  So it's my guess that those bots at the Iris infohub aren't there by accident or negligence, they're there intentionally, most likely for the purpose of sending spammy IMs to any other newbie who arrives there.

And now I'm amused by the thought of spam-bots endlessly spamming each other, and their messages never reaching a real human...

 

[Fionalein]

19 minutes ago, Matty Luminos said:

And now I'm amused by the thought of spam-bots endlessly spamming each other, and their messages never reaching a real human...

Well my approach to a bot would be a state machine that keeps quiet unless in legit deloyment state (which would require arriving at a destiny sim). But who knows what the kids program those days.

[Phil Deakins]

On 18/06/2018 at 4:31 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

Yes, that's true of islands.

When the Lindens do rolling restarts on the Mainland, I notice that sometimes you are pitched not offline but on to an infohub.

OR, if you are logged off, your home sim or place where you were isn't available, and it tells you that it had to put you "nearby" although often it isn't and it's usually an adult "safe hub" in Zindra which is annoying.

If what you said was true, none of those bots would be sitting on the infohub, they'd be LOGGED OFF.

Unless the bot programs include the ability to log back on automatically and THEN be pitched to another sim (as their home sim isn't ready online yet), what you're saying wouldn't make sense.

When the sim I'm in has gone down, for whatever reason, I've never been moved to another location. I've always been logged out. Always. That's why the warnings come up - so that you can get out of the sim before being logged off.  I'm sure you are mistaken about the SL system moving avatars to other places when a sim goes down.

Somebody suggested what actually happens that you may have mistaken for something else. When a bot is logged off by a sim going down, depending on its programming, it will alomst certainly try to log back in again to the same location, but, that place not being available, it ends up at an infohub. It would be easy to assume that the SL system had sent them there instead of logging them out, but it doesn't.

Another thing that you're mistaken about is that bots ought to have Homes set. They don't. Any bot worth its salt will check its location on login and, if it's not where it's designed to be, it will either go to where it's suppoed to be, or log out for another try. It doesn't need a Home to be set at all.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Paul Hexem]

Damn those bot owners for LL taking their locations offline.

Wait, what?

[Alwin Alcott]

On 18-6-2018 at 5:57 AM, Wulfie Reanimator said:

, go post in another thread instead

read the blog and posts of the one you defend .. you'll perhaps get a idea why people respond to him/her/it this way

before i forget.. don't forget the blog... with some luck you'l be the first in ages (ever?) that gets a friendly remark because of your post here, most people will get burned, staked and whatever more is possible.

[Fionalein]

28 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

read the blog and posts of the one you defend .. you'll perhaps get a idea why people respond to him/her/it this way

before i forget.. don't forget the blog... with some luck you'l be the first in ages (ever?) that gets a friendly remark because of your post here, most people will get burned, staked and whatever more is possible.

I'm sure Wulfie does not want to defend anyone but only wants the thread to stay on topic - however I fear Wulfie is a hopeless optimist in that respect just look at what kind of behavior Wulfie defended in the past (like siding with people who did not want to be reminded of their lack of manners when asking a technical question in a very rude way)

Edited June 19, 2018 by Fionalein

[Phorumities]

On 6/17/2018 at 11:31 PM, Prokofy Neva said:

Yes, that's true of islands.

When the Lindens do rolling restarts on the Mainland, I notice that sometimes you are pitched not offline but on to an infohub.

OR, if you are logged off, your home sim or place where you were isn't available, and it tells you that it had to put you "nearby" although often it isn't and it's usually an adult "safe hub" in Zindra which is annoying.

If what you said was true, none of those bots would be sitting on the infohub, they'd be LOGGED OFF.

Unless the bot programs include the ability to log back on automatically and THEN be pitched to another sim (as their home sim isn't ready online yet), what you're saying wouldn't make sense.

ok if they are programmed to log back immediatly after being logged out on a restart i can see them being sent to the nearest info/safe hub. so yes they would congregate at hubs

[Prokofy Neva]

On 6/19/2018 at 9:22 AM, Phorumities said:

ok if they are programmed to log back immediatly after being logged out on a restart i can see them being sent to the nearest info/safe hub. so yes they would congregate at hubs

We haven't confirmed THAT they are programmed that way or that they can even BE programmed that way, but if so, why not then program them to GO HOME. Because the restart might shake them off a home sim, but that sim would be back up by the time they are able to log back in. Surely it should work that way. Bottom line: they should NOT congregate at hubs. Hubs are for people. Having all those dumb bots there lags the sims, confuses newbies, and they add nothing, they only subtract. 

[Paul Hexem]

2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

We haven't confirmed THAT they are programmed that way or that they can even BE programmed that way

Incorrect. The most basic of viewers try to send you home on login, including bot viewers. Most, as you've been told, even keep trying after they log in.

2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Because the restart might shake them off a home sim, but that sim would be back up by the time they are able to log back in.

Incorrect. I've seen sims offline for up to 15 minutes during restarts. Even a minute or two is longer than it takes to log back in for anyone on a decent computer, and bots tend to be faster.

2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Bottom line: they should NOT congregate at hubs. Hubs are for people. Having all those dumb bots there lags the sims, confuses newbies, and they add nothing, they only subtract. 

That's where LL sends them. Don't like it, make a JIRA.

[Prokofy Neva]

14 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:

Incorrect. The most basic of viewers try to send you home on login, including bot viewers. Most, as you've been told, even keep trying after they log in.

Incorrect. I've seen sims offline for up to 15 minutes during restarts. Even a minute or two is longer than it takes to log back in for anyone on a decent computer, and bots tend to be faster.

That's where LL sends them. Don't like it, make a JIRA.

A conscious human has a choice of either logging on to "home" or "last location". I don't know if bots can't relog on to SL after being logged out. That would require more than just LSL obviously.I'd like a second opinion on whether bots can log back in, and log in faster than humans.

If so, why can't they be set to log on to home? And why can't the owner set their home positions? Not everything can be decided in a virtual world by "code-as-law," some things -- indeed, perhaps the most important things -- may be decided by organic law and by both common sense and decency. It's ok to expect that people set bots to home and they go back there. That should be the norm.

Most sims come back up after resets, all you have to do is watch the weekly rolling restarts to see that. There's no need to cater to the worst case scenario.

No, I don't "make JIRAs." There  is no reason why posts can't be made on the forums to clarify this and encourage better behavior.

Yesterday, I IM'd all the bots and told them to go home. One woke up who was in a robot outfit with a name that sounded like a bot, but turned out to be a human, and really could not explain why he was slumped half the day at an infohub, and left. To be sure, people have the right and indeed are encouraged to set infohubs as homes. That would be fine, if they actually came here and did more than just slump at the landing point making others pile on their head.

Bots need to go home in the worst way.

 

[Solar Legion]

SSDD for that one. 

[Paul Hexem]

3 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

SSDD for that one. 

It's like talking to my pet turtle. 

My pet turtle died 16 years ago.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

On 6/21/2018 at 7:25 PM, Prokofy Neva said:

A conscious human has a choice of either logging on to "home" or "last location". I don't know if bots can't relog on to SL after being logged out. That would require more than just LSL obviously.I'd like a second opinion on whether bots can log back in, and log in faster than humans.

If so, why can't they be set to log on to home? And why can't the owner set their home positions? Not everything can be decided in a virtual world by "code-as-law," some things -- indeed, perhaps the most important things -- may be decided by organic law and by both common sense and decency. It's ok to expect that people set bots to home and they go back there. That should be the norm.

Most sims come back up after resets, all you have to do is watch the weekly rolling restarts to see that. There's no need to cater to the worst case scenario.

No, I don't "make JIRAs." There  is no reason why posts can't be made on the forums to clarify this and encourage better behavior.

Yesterday, I IM'd all the bots and told them to go home. One woke up who was in a robot outfit with a name that sounded like a bot, but turned out to be a human, and really could not explain why he was slumped half the day at an infohub, and left. To be sure, people have the right and indeed are encouraged to set infohubs as homes. That would be fine, if they actually came here and did more than just slump at the landing point making others pile on their head.

Bots need to go home in the worst way.

 

No bot runs on LSL, period.

Even if you were to bring up bots with RLV, RLV is not LSL.

[Prokofy Neva]

3 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

No bot runs on LSL, period.

Even if you were to bring up bots with RLV, RLV is not LSL.

Well that's funny! I didn't know that. And it's esoterically useful to know. But it's not the point. The point is, logging on to SL doesn't seem to me to be something that can be an automatic function because you can't paste the password, you have to type it. Of course, many things are possible with coding and computers. But I'd like to hear this from someone with inworld experience.

Once again: there is no objective need to have bots land on infohubs and clog them up, take avatar slots away from them, and lag them. None at all. In fact it's a nuisance and takes resources from others. In fact, that might be a way to AR them, that they take resources.  So remedies both organic and coded are needed.

[Fionalein]

I doubt bots are written in LSLs, I guess more something like Python running in specialiced viewers that allow scripted input.

[Klytyna]

47 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

The point is, logging on to SL doesn't seem to me to be something that can be an automatic function because you can't paste the password, you have to type it. Of course, many things are possible with coding and computers. But I'd like to hear this from someone with inworld experience.

I NEVER have to manually type my pasword in, when logging into SL, becausze...

I use the "remember me" option, in the viewr, that little tick box right under the name and password boxes.

My viewer stores my user name and password in a config file, When I log in, it sends this data to the SL servers.

Bot programs can also store the bots name and password in their config files, and send it to the servers, NOBODY needs to type in a password for a bot to automatically relog. They also don't have to have a home location set, as when they log in, the config file tells it what slurl to enter in the data sent to SL's login server.

Believe it or not, you can do a direct login to a specific slurl in normal SL viewers, bot programs do this a lot faster though. They are NOT limited to "last location or Home", no more than you or I are

Bot programs are NOT just a copy of the SL Inferiority Viewer that you use so badly, they are radically different concepts, many have NO rendering abilities at all, for example.

...

Sims do not automatically pop back online instantly during rolling restarts, it can take 10/15/20 mins, depending on how weird things are getting at LL, or if the reset also involves a new server code rollout on that channel.

Bots get kicked offline when the sim restarts, they try to automatically relog, some bots will have a delay programmed in to allow the sim to come back online, because it's not time critical to what the bot is for, mapping bots etc., are in no rush.

Since a logout could have been a restart or simply a dropped connection, some try relogging instantly, and if it is a restart and a slow one, on relogging they get shunted to an Info Hub. What they do then depends on what they are programmed to do, and how well.

Remember, not all bots are "traffic scams", there are many uses for bots, some stationary on one sim, others, wander continuously, like SL's famous chat bot, Hal Titanium (though I'm guessing you havn't seen Hal, because if you speak to him, he wont go away.

On 21 June 2018 at 5:25 PM, Prokofy Neva said:

Yesterday, I IM'd all the bots and told them to go home. One woke up who was in a robot outfit with a name that sounded like a bot, but turned out to be a human, and really could not explain why he was slumped half the day at an infohub, and left.

Why should they HAVE to explain to YOU. You're nobody special, not an "authority over the Info Hub".