Connect the Continents

[MeesterP]

Examples of hypothetical channels (for sake of argument):

1) Sailable channel from Atanua sim (Satori)  to Odezia sim (Heterocera): about 80 to 90 sims

2) Flyable channel from Graybar sim (South tip of Satori) to Nordica sim (NE Sansara): about 65 to 70 sims

[MeesterP]

@Jazzystaples:  how would region portals work?  I thought LL had disabled object teleporting a long time ago

 

[MeesterP]

18 hours ago, Jazzystaples said:

You simply sail or fly through this normal region crossing and you're there!

This could be done in a lot of locations to allow access.

 

PROS:
- No need to move land
- Faster than a water bridge (doesn't use up any regions either)
- Works like a normal region crossing
CONS:
- LL would have to actually program this into the game and I have no clue how difficult something like this is to do on a technical scale.

And that's pretty much my proposal.

@Jazzystaples:  Not a bad idea, but how would region portals work?  I thought LL had disabled object teleporting a long time ago

Based on your map, if you use Euxoa sim as Heterocera entry point for sailing, you can't go any further. It's a cul-de-sac, because in the sims west of Euxoa, the narrow canals are excessively shallow, narrow and not pervious, basically. So there is no way to sail through and reach Calleta City + ANWR Channel to Sansara, from Euxoa.

Unless you fly, of course, then, yes, you can continue beyond Euxoa sim.

To be able to sail to Calleta City and then Sansara, the first useful entry sim in Heterocera would be Columbia ( http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Columbia/39/17/20 )

 

Edited June 11, 2018 by MeesterP

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, MeesterP said:

 

@Jazzystaples:  Not a bad idea, but how would region portals work?  I thought LL had disabled object teleporting a long time ago

 

 

Right now you can cross between regions because one region knows that another region is directly on the other side of one of its edges. It would be a matter of telling two regions that they're neighbors despite their not showing up next to each other on a map. It's the same idea of having a list that loops back to the beginning after you reach the end instead of stopping.

[Trista Banx]

2 hours ago, Jazzystaples said:

Hi. I had an idea for something, but it would require a bit of work on LL's end to make it happen.

Region portals. In plain terms, this is simply a region crossing that will send you directly to another continent. There are no giant ocean-bridges to worry about, and no land to move.

OK......  more importantly than a reply to this post is the important function or the goal of this forum ..... to put it simply, the people that post ideas about teleport ideas to get from point A to B in a more creative way than just teleporting are defeating the purpose of connecting the continents and are genuinely or accidentally missing the point. Posting about clever ways to teleport from A to B is about the equivalent of people pushing the flat earth idea in RL. It's not productive, and serves no purpose. This is about long, time consuming channel(s) to the other unconnected continents on the grid for the purpose of spending time traveling as well as other undiscovered or explored advantages. Not sure how much more simply i can say that ..... so teleport ideas have nothing to to with the task at hand here. This isn't Start Trek ... we're trying to improve the grid with real sim channels for better travel experiences and a lot more for grid wide realistic enthusiasts.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Trista Banx

[Fionalein]

13 hours ago, Trista Banx said:

OK......  more importantly than a reply to this post is the important function or the goal of this forum ..... to put it simply, the people that post ideas about teleport ideas to get from point A to B in a more creative way than just teleporting are defeating the purpose of connecting the continents and are genuinely or accidentally missing the point.

You know that region crossings are just a specialized form of TPs as well, right? The supposed channels will cost a lot of maintenance - even moving the continents closer together could actually be cheaper than this undertaking. And as I stated above this idea is not even new, we have discussed it in the past (see link above). Actually I see a simple way for your channels to start existing. Instead of pulling the entitlement card: pay for them. Say "Here LindenLab, we - the SL sailing community - will pay you this Gazillion Dollaroos yearly if you in return open up the supposed continental channels" I doubt they would refuse it if the offer is fair. Your proposal however asks the Lab to open hundreds of regions with the "benefit" of increasing interest in mainland. Sorry to burst your bubble, but what is the Lab's benefit of this whole endeavour? The increase in rent income has to outweigh the cost to run all the new regions and that is something I will never see happening in your scenario.

So please at least listen if people come up with more realistic ideas instead of waving them away.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Fionalein

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 hours ago, Trista Banx said:

OK......  more importantly than a reply to this post is the important function or the goal of this forum ..... to put it simply, the people that post ideas about teleport ideas to get from point A to B in a more creative way than just teleporting are defeating the purpose of connecting the continents and are genuinely or accidentally missing the point. Posting about clever ways to teleport from A to B is about the equivalent of people pushing the flat earth idea in RL. It's not productive, and serves no purpose. This is about long, time consuming channel(s) to the other unconnected continents on the grid for the purpose of spending time traveling as well as other undiscovered or explored advantages. Not sure how much more simply i can say that ..... so teleport ideas have nothing to to with the task at hand here. This isn't Start Trek ... we're trying to improve the grid with real sim channels for better travel experiences and a lot more for grid wide realistic enthusiasts.

But Second Life is flat. That's the problem. Using conventional regions you'll never be able to "circumnavigate" Second Life; however, if you make creative use of non-adjacent region crossings you could.

[IceCold Skytower]

4 hours ago, Jazzystaples said:

Hi. I had an idea for something, but it would require a bit of work on LL's end to make it happen.

Region portals. In plain terms, this is simply a region crossing that will send you directly to another continent. There are no giant ocean-bridges to worry about, and no land to move.

In my "expertly-crafted" examples, here's what I mean:

 

This is the coast of Satori. We need to get to Heterocera. So, we have a portal right over here marked by this purple arrow.

You simply sail or fly through this normal region crossing and you're there!

This could be done in a lot of locations to allow access.

 

PROS:
- No need to move land
- Faster than a water bridge (doesn't use up any regions either)
- Works like a normal region crossing
CONS:
- LL would have to actually program this into the game and I have no clue how difficult something like this is to do on a technical scale.

And that's pretty much my proposal.

Actually, region crossings like that are possible but imagine the hell of it. You can simcross to regions that arent adjacent technically, that means you go off the edge, cross, and then your camera snaps to the new region thats elsewhere.

However, adjacent regions you cross into have to "load" as in you connect to it as 'CHILD_AGENT' which means you see the sim but you arent in it. If you arent connected like that to the sim you are crossing into, you will fall out of grid, which you have probably experienced once or twice if you travel on mainland.

So a crossing to like 50km away, good luck seeing that sim, it would have to run with the teleport code instead of simcrossings, and yes teleports and simcrossings are actually two different things. Even so Simcrossings existed before teleports were a thing in early SL.

Glorified teleports and object teleports are more insane job to work into SL than making a path of regions, or even moving the continents, and i believe LL wont move the continents, that does damage alot of content, and needs alot of reshuffling of private sims in the way.

and as to who pays for it, that can go both ways, community can fork out thousands of dollars, or LL can do it as an investment, thats about it.

[foneco Zuzu]

I really simply would prefer that LL would enforce a more strict policy to disable ban lines on regions that can affect the normal access to their protected places.

Sometimes is not the lack of regions but the fact that some owners use ban lines at will without realizing or on purpose to screw others.

Edited June 10, 2018 by foneco Zuzu

[Fionalein]

16 hours ago, IceCold Skytower said:

Actually, region crossings like that are possible but imagine the hell of it. You can simcross to regions that arent adjacent technically, that means you go off the edge, cross, and then your camera snaps to the new region thats elsewhere.

That's the whole trick - while they might be elsewhere in coordinates they are "adjacent technically" I bet you could even declare a region adjacent to itself on all 4 sides - that would only need very little change in code and you would be able to run out west only to enter from the east. Equally your view would preload as normal - the computer would not know it's elsewhere on the map.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Fionalein

[Geneer Gynoid]

16 hours ago, MeesterP said:

1) Sailable channel from Atanua sim (Satori)  to Odezia sim (Heterocera): about 80 to 90 sims

Not bad... one of the more effortless additions to not need and mainland editing to open any access channels to get to...
 

16 hours ago, MeesterP said:

2) Flyable channel from Graybar sim (South tip of Satori) to Nordica sim (NE Sansara): about 65 to 70 sims

This could be done for both flying and sailing if they extend some form of sail-able access to continue down the West side of Satori, something past Stromberg on down to the tip.

we really dont have any ideal scenarios, unless we get something that is not a straight line.... instead of looking for a straight shot, its something that leaves Atuana, and incorporates the Atoll rent-able sims, then shoots down/over to a more open area, such as connecting in Tikva or Bevel.

Maybe its 6 in one hand, half dozen in the other depending on down the coast then straight over, which would be better, I think... the southern tip of Satori, if the west coast sims were opened.

Personally, I don't want sliver channel LL access-ways, OK if it s ALL we get, but. How many times do we try and sail those channels, and 1/2 of the way is some clown with banlines on it and inevitably off sim objects, which, YES i know are phantom, but, its ridiculous. I have had those offsim junk w/physics literally throw me into the banlines and eject me. So, as few of these routs as possible are ideal, but... its tough no matter if we find a 80 or 100 sim solution. Its still up to LL as to whether they want to improve sailing experience in SL, or if its just down to how many AFK sex sims they can rent and cash in on high profit per sim.

 

[MeesterP]

 

15 hours ago, Trista Banx said:

OK......  more importantly than a reply to this post is the important function or the goal of this forum ..... to put it simply, the people that post ideas about teleport ideas to get from point A to B in a more creative way than just teleporting are defeating the purpose of connecting the continents and are genuinely or accidentally missing the point. Posting about clever ways to teleport from A to B is about the equivalent of people pushing the flat earth idea in RL. It's not productive, and serves no purpose. This is about long, time consuming channel(s) to the other unconnected continents on the grid for the purpose of spending time traveling as well as other undiscovered or explored advantages. Not sure how much more simply i can say that ..... so teleport ideas have nothing to to with the task at hand here. This isn't Start Trek ... we're trying to improve the grid with real sim channels for better travel experiences and a lot more for grid wide realistic enthusiasts.

 

Yes, the most logical option is for us to buy sims, (or groups of sim) that connect the continents. I would assume that would be the simplest, most welcome solution for Linden Lab too. It is non-developmental, no need to develop new "region portals". I'm not against new technologies of course, but I'm trying and reason based on what's available now and here.

Maintenance could be funded through regular tier payment, as in any other cluster of sims.

Examples of hypothetical channels (for sake of argument):

1) Sailable channel from Atanua sim (Satori)  to Odezia sim (Heterocera): about 80 to 90 sims

2) Flyable channel from Graybar sim (South tip of Satori) to Nordica sim (NE Sansara): about 65 to 70 sims

That's not difficult to do. There are many examples of private estates connecting continents. To give you an example, the nice Tuarua Fiji estate connects Nautilus to Corsica and is 72 sims. Nothing strange about it.

I could put some money on the table myself, I know several other people would like to as well.

 

Edited June 11, 2018 by MeesterP

[Geneer Gynoid]

And as for the TP folks, I appreciate the ideas, but, this idea is for a sail-able 'sea' for planes, boats, etc to use for SEVERAL RP scenarios. I can TP now!

And for the folks saying WHY should LL do this??? well, I am simply proposing a suggestion as a paying customer, along with my fellow paying customers to make an improvement in the sailing and flying construct so its enjoyed by even more paying customers. It a suggestion... I dont use the sex sims, i have no use for them... I am simply trying to improve the SL areas I DO use and think these are FINE ideas. They will be enjoyed by all SL craft residents... Even those that want to nay-say this proposal, well, we want YOU to enjoy this as well...

Good ideas and wonderful things have always begun with dreamers and followed by constructive planning... We are dreaming, and we are now compiling our plan.

[Geneer Gynoid]

7 minutes ago, MeesterP said:

Yes, the most logical option is for us to buy sims, (or groups of sim) that connect the continents. I would assume that would be the simplest, most welcome solution for Linden Lab too. It is non-developmental, no need to develop new "region portals". I'm not against new technologies of course, but I'm trying and reason based on what's available now and here.

Maintenance could be funded through regular tier payment, as in any other cluster of sims.

Maybe this is how we do it, WE build it one sim at a time!!!! This thought HAS occurred to me as well....

[MeesterP]

12 minutes ago, Geneer Gynoid said:

And as for the TP folks, I appreciate the ideas, but, this idea is for a sail-able 'sea' for planes, boats, etc to use for SEVERAL RP scenarios. I can TP now!

And for the folks saying WHY should LL do this??? well, I am simply proposing a suggestion as a paying customer, along with my fellow paying customers to make an improvement in the sailing and flying construct so its enjoyed by even more paying customers. It a suggestion... I dont use the sex sims, i have no use for them... I am simply trying to improve the SL areas I DO use and think these are FINE ideas. They will be enjoyed by all SL craft residents... Even those that want to nay-say this proposal, well, we want YOU to enjoy this as well...

Good ideas and wonderful things have always begun with dreamers and followed by constructive planning... We are dreaming, and we are now compiling our plan.

Yes, I would imagine that the people supporting this project are eager SL aviators and sailors who like to fly and sail over long distances (that is probably the main thing I do in SL anyway). Those are the very people that led to the remarkable development of both the sailing and aviation communities in Second Life in the last 8 years, by the way.

Edited June 11, 2018 by MeesterP

[MeesterP]

If I could choose, personally, I would prefer Satori to be linked to northeast Sansara, rather than Heterocera, even just by air route. That's because northeast Sansara gives direct access to the East River scenic sailing regions and thus the East River to Bay City, or East River to Snowlands, interesting routes.   

By the way, the Lindens in the recent past have made remarkable improvements to the waterways (and airways) to sail and fly within Sansara. We should credit them for that.

Edited June 11, 2018 by MeesterP

[Trista Banx]

On 6/10/2018 at 7:03 AM, Fionalein said:

You know that region crossings are just a specialized form of TPs as well, right? The supposed channels will cost a lot of maintenance - even moving the continents closer together could actually be cheaper than this undertaking. And as I stated above this idea is not even new, we have discussed it in the past (see link above). Actually I see a simple way for your channels to start existing. Instead of pulling the entitlement card: pay for them. Say "Here LindenLab, we - the SL sailing community - will pay you this Gazillion Dollaroos yearly if you in return open up the supposed continental channels" I doubt they would refuse it if the offer is fair. Your proposal however asks the Lab to open hundreds of regions with the "benefit" of increasing interest in mainland. Sorry to burst your bubble, but what is the Lab's benefit of this whole endeavour? The increase in rent income has to outweigh the cost to run all the new regions and that is something I will never see happening in your scenario.

So please at least listen if people come up with more realistic ideas instead of waving them away.

1. Unless you work for LL with access to privileged information, how do know what maintenance costs on what ?

2. Nobody is playing an entitlement card. I've invested 1000's of dollars into SL to reach the success level I currently have, which is humble compared to other members of this discussion.

3. If you read every post in this forum you would see the possible benefits for LL, which have been suggested by myself and others.

4. You speak as if this is my idea alone, which it is not. It's an idea I share with many others, and have for a long time supported. If you don't support the idea, then I wonder why you're a part of the conversation to begin with. If you think it's a bad idea, just ignore the forum. It won't personally affect you either way

Edited June 12, 2018 by Trista Banx

[Trista Banx]

17 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Using conventional regions you'll never be able to "circumnavigate" Second Life; however, if you make creative use of non-adjacent region crossings you could.

 

 

verb: circumnavigate; 3rd person present: circumnavigates; past tense: circumnavigated; past participle: circumnavigated; gerund or present participle: circumnavigating

1. sail or travel all the way around (something, especially the world).

   • go around or avoid (an obstacle).

     "he helped her to circumnavigate a frozen puddle"
   • avoid dealing with (something difficult or unpleasant).

     "they circumnavigated the issue"

So which are you suggesting? That we try to sail or travel all around SL, or that we should try to avoid SL ?

Maybe you're trying to circumnavigate the goal of the forum LOL

Edited June 11, 2018 by Trista Banx

[Trista Banx]

5 hours ago, MeesterP said:

 

 

Yes, the most logical option is for us to buy sims, (or groups of sim) that connect the continents. I would assume that would be the simplest, most welcome solution for Linden Lab too. It is non-developmental, no need to develop new "region portals". I'm not against new technologies of course, but I'm trying and reason based on what's available now and here.

Maintenance could be funded through regular tier payment, as in any other cluster of sims.

Examples of hypothetical channels (for sake of argument):

1) Sailable channel from Atanua sim (Satori)  to Odezia sim (Heterocera): about 80 to 90 sims

2) Flyable channel from Graybar sim (South tip of Satori) to Nordica sim (NE Sansara): about 65 to 70 sims

That's not difficult to do. There are many examples of private estates connecting continents. To give you an example, the nice Tuarua Fiji estate connects Nautilus to Corsica and is 72 sims. Nothing strange about it.

I could put some money on the table myself, I know several other people would like to as well.

 

Not sure who you're agreeing with, but I think LL maintaining a channel of Open Space sims serving as protected water regions is the best option. I think renting them all out would be very difficult, time consuming to accomplish, and harder to maintain given that tier payments mean people have to keep paying the tier on every sim in the channel. What if someone stops paying? Is the channel blocked indefinitely ? What if they rent that sim so a sub tenant that blocks everyone with a security orb? ...... the channels themselves can't be owned / payed for / rented by multiple people or groups ..... it just opens up a big can of worms that nobody wants to complain about later.

[MeesterP]

3 hours ago, Trista Banx said:

Not sure who you're agreeing with, but I think LL maintaining a channel of Open Space sims serving as protected water regions is the best option. I think renting them all out would be very difficult, time consuming to accomplish, and harder to maintain given that tier payments mean people have to keep paying the tier on every sim in the channel. What if someone stops paying? Is the channel blocked indefinitely ? What if they rent that sim so a sub tenant that blocks everyone with a security orb? ...... the channels themselves can't be owned / payed for / rented by multiple people or groups ..... it just opens up a big can of worms that nobody wants to complain about later.

Yes I agree that the Open Space sims would be the best option.

We can regard the other option (=rental sims, all region or 50% of it) as a "Plan B" in case the Open Space sim channel doesn't work out. But I would not be that "pessimistic" about renting flyable/sailable regions, it's not that difficult. Keep in mind the example of the Tuarua Fji or Fairchang or Blake Sea estates. They enforce a covenant for which tenants cannot use orbs, and if they stop paying, they get evicted but regions remain flyable/sailable nevertheless. We have to line up all the realistic options.  But, as I said, I agree that the Open Space sims would be the best option, of course.

[Alwin Alcott]

2 hours ago, MeesterP said:

 We have to line up all the realistic options.

stop thinking you will get it for free ..

Start a group, collect tier donations, and see how many you really are able to maintain and keep with the fangroup.

[chibiusa Ling]

On 09/06/2018 at 1:48 PM, IceCold Skytower said:

LL puts multiple sims on one server core, even if they use homestead, they could easily put around 25 of them on one core, so a single server machine could run 100 sims easily, and the surge of new mainland residents would make up for it. Lucrative business move, with some risks involved. Why are they not doing it? They can afford risks i think.

Also, I actually dreamed of this continent connection since many years, my home base is on Heterocera, and I feel like all the party is over at east, with Corsia/Blake/Nautilus/Satori landmass, I'd be a frequent user of such connection, so i wouldnt need to TP over during RPs, or pretend a boat ride by going to a specific spot then teleporting to another specific spot.

I see no down sides to this business move except for the maintenance price of the extra regions.

A single machine couldn't run 100 sims easily. Not full regions. The core to sim setup works as follows : 

1 x Full 20k/30k region  = 1 whole core

4 x Homstead regions = 1 whole core

16 x Openspace regions = 1 whole core

to assign 25 full regions to a single core considering its setup so that 1 core = 1 full region would be all kinds of catastrophic. The performance would be utterly awful. Even if you used a 16 core processor you could only run 16 full sims. Imagine the fury of the residents if LL divided the region resources they have right now by 25 or even 100 as you stated, it would be ridiculously laggy and slow

Edited June 11, 2018 by chibiusa Ling

[ChinRey]

On 10.6.2018 at 8:32 AM, Trista Banx said:

The shorter routes can be easily used since private sims in the way can be easily relocated without substantial consequence to the sim owners, which they really don't own.

If relocating private sims is an option, the shortest route is still in the north - from Nordica to Baltazar.

But Bevel to Atanua can be done without relocating existing regions and it's still the route that would take the fewest sims to connect the waterways. Any route that hit either continent further south would need additional water sims along that continent.

[Aethelwine]

Moving the continents together you could fit a landbridge between Atenua and Exeuxoa in probably less than 10 homesteads without any disruption additional to that caused by relocating the continent sims and those in the way.

This would seem to be the most obvious low impact low cost way for them to do it, and with benefits far out weighing the inconvenience. 

Hopefully while they are at it they could add a few more sims around Satori and Heterocera to make them circumnavigable, it would be a huge benefit to everyone on both continents and everyone that likes to sail and fly.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Aethelwine

[Aethelwine]

7 hours ago, ChinRey said:

If relocating private sims is an option, the shortest route is still in the north - from Nordica to Baltazar.

But Bevel to Atanua can be done without relocating existing regions and it's still the route that would take the fewest sims to connect the waterways. Any route that hit either continent further south would need additional water sims along that continent.

Bevel would be good but the route through from there to East River Community and then on to Bay City and Heterocera has a couple of bottlenecks with inconsiderate landowners and banlines.. linking to Bevel would be good but I think the route through from East Heterocera would be a little easier with perhaps a couple of additional sims along the south edge to avoid similar problems