Connect the Continents

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

One of the biggest problems with Sansara continent is that there is currently no way to move by boat from Sansara's north coast to south coast, or vice-versa. Why? There is no contiguous waterway and water levels are much higher/deeper in Sansara's southern interior lakes.

I've drawn some (hypothetical) plans below which create an east coast for the continent.

The first idea involves a relocation of a 16 region sized micro-continent called "Islandia North" (to the north-east of Sansara) and adding 38 new water regions for an entirely protected waterway along the east side of Sansara, creating a proper coastline for the first time in its long history.

The coastal route also utilises some existing water regions (between Sansara and Islandia South micro-continent) and connects at it's southern end to the north shore of Bellisseria, the new Linden Homes continent

 

A second alternative to moving Islandia North, is to dig a protected water channel through the current Pine Coast (1031,1008) region, or Torver (1030,1007) region which could also work - and reduce the new region count by two to "only" 36.

 

A third and the "cheapest" alternative would be to link only as north as Bleaberry Tarn (1030,1004), using a total of 33 new regions.

Edited May 31, 2021 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[Haiku Quan]

I couldn’t agree more. And I know you know the impassible north/south corridor on the eastern edge of Sansara is only one of many similar coastlines. And that doesn’t even raise this issue of continents like Heterocera that was clearly designed to permit folks to sail into the atoll and around the central caldera, or the landscaping that used to permit the interior circumambulation inside Sansara through its string of lakes.

I used to think SL could be persuaded to open up all those waterways by reminding them of the fabulous selling point for all of SL that touring the continents by sail provides. It could conceivably attract in lots of new residents and help retain many current residents by showing them how vast and diversified SL is.

But then I realized a couple things. One is that although I now sail through countless regions using countless servers, I don’t pay a nickel more to SL than I did when I was your basic SL “sim potato”. Two, any contest in SL between sailors and landowners would be like Bambi versus Godzilla. The outcome could cripple sailing into the future.

I think it could be really helpful if landowners could be persuaded or seduced into joining the effort, but I haven’t any idea how to do that.

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

This 33 region coastal route would be the shortest and cheapest option.

Bleaberry Tarn (north) to Omoo (south). In fact, I'm going to officially propose it to Linden Labs....

Edited June 1, 2021 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

I have filed a JIRA - a new feature request - for the creation of a Sansara East Coast. I urge like-minded people to read it.

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-230820

@Linden Lab @Linden.@lindenlab.com  @Alexa Linden  @Kyle Linden  @Derrick Linden @Patch Linden  @Abnor Mole

Fingers crossed....

Edited June 1, 2021 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[Sophieredwood]

This would be a very nice addition to Sansara, it would give the sailing community some nice water to sail on, as long as they where not sold and built on. thank you 

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

@Sophieredwood Not just to sail on, to live by, to use as a coastal route for visiting the continents to Sansara's north, south and further to the east. Which we currently can't do!

Edited June 1, 2021 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

I was curious about an alternative north-south route through or around Sansara. So I added some imaginary regions to the south of Sansara, around the Snowlands and Elements regions.

I was very surprised to discover this route is shorter than an east coast route (oops...!).

A full coastal route with touches land costs 29 regions, while a shorter more direct route costs 26 regions....

Anyone feel like writing another Jira?!

Edited June 1, 2021 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

Another coastline that needs an upgrade is Satori's west coast.

18 new regions would need to be created to allow boats to move between Bellisseria, Satori and beyond.

Edited June 2, 2021 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[Eowyn Southmoor]

You're probably jumping the gun a bit here, especially when it comes to the Satori add-on.

Bellisseria still has a minimum of 3 more themes to unveil and complete, plus a few current themes still need to be completed. If you logically look at how Bellisseria has expanded so far, it's reasonable to assume that north of the "Chalet" area will, at some point, be full of LL home regions. At that point, you can expect LL to fill in the blanks on the west coast of Satori and finally give sailors a full protected waterway  

Depending on just how many more regions LL determine they need, it's also quite possible for Bellisseria to expand north-west, to the point that it reaches the north-east corner of Sansara as per your plan.

LL have already demonstrated (with the Jeogeot NW coast) that they are quite happy to "fill in" little gaps between mainland and Bellisseria, so I think we can expect to see that trend continue. However, I think they are unlikely to add water regions to any mainland area that has nothing to do with Bellisseria, simply because there isn't a financial incentive to do so. 

[Sybille Winkler]

....snip...

However, I think they are unlikely to add water regions to any mainland area that has nothing to do with Bellisseria, simply because there isn't a financial incentive to do so

....snap....

NO!

I think, of course there should be a strong even financial interest!

Remember, Belli is full of marinas or water homes. So the new inhabitants should be have a very own strong interest to find sailing targets for themselve. And that not only inside Bellisaria, but also over the complete grid's areas, that are reachable by protected waterways!  The Linden homes so only could be more attractive then ever, or?

 

Greetings from a dreaming sailers girl, that like to sail one day from Gaeta to Bay City in one turn....

Edited June 3, 2021 by Sybille Winkler

[Qie Niangao]

6 hours ago, Sybille Winkler said:

However, I think they are unlikely to add water regions to any mainland area that has nothing to do with Bellisseria, simply because there isn't a financial incentive to do so

I'm curious: Why would there be more financial incentive for Bellisseria than for other Mainland coasts? 

[EDIT: I realize I "snipped" the wrong poster here, who was actually asking much the same question in response to @Eowyn Southmoor's post.]

Edited June 3, 2021 by Qie Niangao

[Jazzimus Maxwell]

On 5/28/2021 at 6:06 PM, SarahKB7 Koskinen said:

I've had another link up idea.

Transform a useless 4 region protected waterway "lake" into a useful east coast for Sansara, by adding 5 new regions to the sea between Sansara and Bellisserria. The water level in the "lake" is already at the standard 20m height.

The block of 30 regions to the east are "Islandia South", which are all named after artists and is owned by Anshe Chung. However, she does not own the protected waterway's 4 regions.

Then the route could theoretically continue northwards to further expand Sansara's coastline.

Sarah, Just FYI they are no longer owned by Anche Chung circa a 2006 LL auction. She developed them after Sansara was developed and later sold back to LL. They are LL mainland now. (I used to live there, adjacent to the waterway). 🙂

[4lice Cerise]

It was suggested to me that people watching this thread might be interested in this comment I posted elsewhere:

Tl;dr: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-231165

[Pussycat Catnap]

On 6/3/2021 at 8:10 AM, Qie Niangao said:

I'm curious: Why would there be more financial incentive for Bellisseria than for other Mainland coasts? 

[EDIT: I realize I "snipped" the wrong poster here, who was actually asking much the same question in response to @Eowyn Southmoor's post.]

'long as folks are replying to old stuff...

My guess here is that because each Belliseria plot sold is one premium account, whereas huge chunks of mainland are either abandoned or held by land barons that do nothing with them and get discounts due to the amount of tier held.

Belliseria represents an actual metric of active user engagement. The better they make it, the more engaged those users get.

The payoff for fixing mainland is a lot less clear, and would require a lot more fixing before efforts were notable enough for a sizeable enough number of residents to see it as something worthy of causing them to increase their engagement... (sorry that sentence reads like a marketing power-point presentation slide...)

 

[Feorie Frimon]

On 9/6/2021 at 3:20 PM, Pussycat Catnap said:

'long as folks are replying to old stuff...

My guess here is that because each Belliseria plot sold is one premium account, whereas huge chunks of mainland are either abandoned or held by land barons that do nothing with them and get discounts due to the amount of tier held.

Belliseria represents an actual metric of active user engagement. The better they make it, the more engaged those users get.

The payoff for fixing mainland is a lot less clear, and would require a lot more fixing before efforts were notable enough for a sizeable enough number of residents to see it as something worthy of causing them to increase their engagement... (sorry that sentence reads like a marketing power-point presentation slide...)

 

This is a really good explanation - the Operation Mainland project that I’m working on… it’s entire goal is show help show that the Mainland is def a think that can make Linden Labs money and help show how to do that. 
 

I definitely think that adding a few sailable water regions could be possible to connect continents if there appears to be a financial incentive. 

[BJoyful]

Every Region that a Resident or a Land Group pays for is a Region which is no longer pure expense for LL (which Residents ‘pay’ for indirectly in fees for tier, services and even just by buying L$ to shop in SL).

So if there’s land owned by Land Barons with 0 objects rezzed… we should thank them very much! 🧐🤓 I don’t understand why anyone would pay for Regions just to get a discount for purchasing more?

As a land developer who uses a Land Group to purchase land, I calculate the m2  (and LI)  per Region (sometimes you don’t get the whole Region) and divide those figures by the number of parcels my Landscaper/Builder/decorator/designer feels would look the best.  Set rental meters or sell-for-tier donation the amount you wish to charge for each parcel to cover the tier cost and make a profit if you wish.

In regard to my own taste and desire for Public use of trails/roads/paths I like to keep a 4096 m2 as a community space at Ground level and stack rentals in skyboxes (up at least 1500 m to stay out of sight at ground level)

I’ve found that a Private Group and Group Inviter bot with Group-Only Build and everyone Object Entry and Run Scripts, and No fly on the Skybox/community use parcel only… works best with very little attention and/or interruption.  The CasperLet system and Web Kiosk Expansion pack will even give you a Webpage of Available Rentals (also the embed code for embedding the frame into your own website) is the best there is and a single deeded 1 LI prim counter per Region will keep track of each tenants rezzed items in that Region.

We can cover the tier and revitalization and beautify Mainland and eventually reduce Tier costs for everyone one as this pure expense for LL returns to each parcel owner as their personal expense.

Kindly follow the guidelines on the Good Neighbor Commandments obelisk made by Abnor Mole and Enjoy SL ❤️

[BJoyful]

@SarahKB7 Koskinen I have a feeling that a JIRA asking for more open water around any continent may not be needed.  It would be wonderful fun to have this right now but such things as this do affect land prices and draw more ppl to the coastal areas (hopefully not from the scantily populated interiors, creating even more cluttered water parcels covered with ‘fake islands’ and high value.

I think LL has a plan or is working on a plan to connect everything.  At present, if we Residents work on revitalizing the interiors with more roads and access and developments and give LL a chance to get things like the Group chat working better and also many tidy-ups we are not privy to which will be necessary for the   projected and anticipated increase in New Resident accounts in the next 5 years we will all benefit faster successfully.

When I complained about needing more Group slots than 70 (because I need about 80 minimum now and have to juggle dumping and joining those 10 with no join fee to meet my needs) Simon Linden pointed out that first LL must get Group chat working or we will simply have 80 Group slots that don’t work reliably.  That just results in more complaints or frustration in our User Experience.

We don’t always get what we want when we want it and an unaccepted JIRA is disheartening after such a diligent and thoughtful proposal is submitted.  If the East Side was an outright No, maybe you could ask the Linden who didn’t accept the feature request if that No means Never or could it possibly be a Maybe Later or a Possibly, We’ll See verdict?  Idk if the Lindens can elaborate or even give a response they may be held accountable for,  but it may be reassuring for the Requester to know the message that this IS important has been received and will be given due consideration. 🥰

In the meantime, we can help prepare for the future by staking claim to a chunk of Abandoned Land, making it look like the good investment it is 🌏 ✔️

Edited September 30, 2021 by BJoyful
Grammar, clarification

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

Today I decided to attempt a coastal circumnavigation of the south/east Chalet Homes continent.

I started at the Buffalo Springs rez zone at the top of the continent (close to Satori) and travelled clockwise around the "lower" south/east half of the Chalet Homes continent, using the new coastal regions as well as the existing main boat channel.

I arrived back at the Buffalo Springs rez zone exactly 56 minutes and 33 seconds later, passing through a total of 74 sim regions at a speed of 15 knots (27.7 kph or 17.2 mph), covering a distance of 17.9 km (11.1 miles).

In all, quite an easy challenge to accomplish, without any obstacles or difficulty.

A bit later, I noticed something that I'd never noticed before. The south/east "lower" half of the Chalet Homes continent are actually two separate land masses, split by a narrow water channel, and are linked together by a single railway bridge and a series of seven low humpback road bridges between Poplar Springs and Citadel Lake.

This "hidden" water channel between Poplar Springs and Citadel Lake means its possible to travel between the main boat channel and the new coastline - without sailing around the north or south geographic extremities of the whole continent! 

I then "discovered" a second water channel that also splits the "upper" north/west half of the Chalet Homes continent, from the main boat channel at Brookside which ends up at Phloom's northern edge. As of yet, Phloom and the surrounding "upper" Chalet Homes regions have no coastline.... yet.

Edited October 9, 2021 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

On Sunday 31st October 2021, I decided to attempt to sail from the Blake Sea regions to the Mole's Island at Meauxle Bureaux region.  I had not attempted this route properly before, as I had assumed from looking at the map that the route was blocked by Montbard and Terric regions. However, they were relatively simple to navigate through, with Terric having a 15 minute "traverse through" time allowance which was refreshingly generous and considerate.

After reaching Meauxle Bureaux , I paused momentarily and wondered how far south I could go in my boat before the journey became impassable. So sticking to protected waterways and not straying into private parcels, I sailed all the way south down Satori's east coast and to my surprise, got just over halfway down Satori's length but could get no further than Ptesanwi region. This was due to no protected water channel in the next region, Afanasyev.

I plotted my route on this map:

It would seem to me that with a few modifications to existing parcels or some additional regions placed between Ptesanwi and the southern tip of Satori, it would be possible to create a full-length north to south coastal route between the Blake Sea and the Linden Homes Bellisseria continent.

I have also created a new map which shows theoretical coastal sim regions added to both of Satori's coasts, this illustrates that full navigation would require 18 regions on the west, with 21 on the east. With both of these coastlines added, it would then be possible to fully circumnavigate the entire Satori continent by boat.

FAO: @Patch Linden@Derrick Linden@Abnor Mole

Edited November 1, 2021 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[Eowyn Southmoor]

LL have been clearing out all the private regions to the west of Satori about two-thirds the way up over the past few weeks. As I said in another thread, i'm reasonably sure that's where Bellisseria will expand, up the west side of Satori - not the east. 

There is too much work for too little financial reward to go up the east coast. As you discovered yourself, even the areas on the east coast that can be currently used, are little more than very narrow waterways. Usable yes, but hardly enjoyable.

As all Bellisseria themes have (or will have) coastlines, it's far easier to simply extend Bellisseria north of the Chalet regions, have a nice coastline there that can be navigated and enjoyed, then simply add in 2 or 3 water regions at the very tip - around Atanua region.

That will "connect the continents" for sailors, give them a clear route with enjoyable scenery and enough space to manoeuvre , plus of course generate income for LL through all the LL homes there - a win-win for everyone  

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

 

The Fantasseria continent (part of Bellisseria) has been expanded this week with both southern and eastern coastlines.

 

The 8 south coast regions were added on Tuesday 9th November 2021.

 

The first stage (10 regions) of an east coast were added on Friday 12th November 2021.

 

Only 18 more coastal regions are required to complete a full coast around the whole of Fantasseria. :)

Edited November 13, 2021 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[Lloyd Overland]

On 11/1/2021 at 10:17 AM, SarahKB7 Koskinen said:

On Sunday 31st October 2021, I decided to attempt to sail from the Blake Sea regions to the Mole's Island at Meauxle Bureaux region.  I had not attempted this route properly before, as I had assumed from looking at the map that the route was blocked by Montbard and Terric regions. However, they were relatively simple to navigate through, with Terric having a 15 minute "traverse through" time allowance which was refreshingly generous and considerate.

After reaching Meauxle Bureaux , I paused momentarily and wondered how far south I could go in my boat before the journey became impassable. So sticking to protected waterways and not straying into private parcels, I sailed all the way south down Satori's east coast and to my surprise, got just over halfway down Satori's length but could get no further than Ptesanwi region. This was due to no protected water channel in the next region, Afanasyev.

I plotted my route on this map:

It would seem to me that with a few modifications to existing parcels or some additional regions placed between Ptesanwi and the southern tip of Satori, it would be possible to create a full-length north to south coastal route between the Blake Sea and the Linden Homes Bellisseria continent.

I have also created a new map which shows theoretical coastal sim regions added to both of Satori's coasts, this illustrates that full navigation would require 18 regions on the west, with 21 on the east. With both of these coastlines added, it would then be possible to fully circumnavigate the entire Satori continent by boat.

FAO: @Patch Linden@Derrick Linden@Abnor Mole

Thanks so much for you post and the maps @SarahKB7 Koskinen as you encouraged me to do the same voyage in one of my small boats. I am not sure now that I've ever sailed the east coast of Satori thinking wrongly it was inaccessible so the journey was an absolute delight. Every time I see new places I'm reminded how unique and wonderous SL can be and it reminds me why I spend time here.

I'd love to see more sailing regions but I suspect the south west of Satori will happen a long time before the south east. We can dream though can't we!

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

 @Aethelwine @Patch Linden@Derrick Linden @Abnor Mole

Re: Heterocera Atoll "Tiger-Togata" coast fix.

There is a very obvious (to me anyway), easy fix to the age-old single missing coastal region sim on Heterocera Atoll continent, between Tiger and Togata regions.

Things there are complicated, as in the neighbouring Moma region, the water level there is higher at 35m, while the nearby coastal regions of Tiger and Togata are at the standard 20m height.  On the border of Moma and Togata is an attractive waterfall, with water "falling" from Moma into Togata.

But the coast is missing in this odd little corner of SL and prevents a full coastal circumnavigtion of Heterocera by boat.

Adding in a new water region between Tiger and Togata as it is now won't work either, because the nearby private island Regalis region needs to have a specific gap wide enough to seperate it from intrusion from the continent and any water regions near to it.

However, I have a cunning plan which should fix this issue!

It involves moving the private Regalis region from it's usual grid position 993,1030 slightly north and west to an unused grid position of 991,1032  so that it does not interfere with other private island regions and is fully clear of Heterocera's coastline.

When the move is done, Regalis' old 993,1030 position can now become an empty sea void.  It will not be needed and will act as a separation buffer between Heterocera and the nearest private island regions. It also allows space for a new coastal region sim to be created on the coast.

With the new void at 993,1030 in place, one new water region (with 20m surface water) can be created and placed (at grid position 994,1029) to the west of Tiger region, which completes the full navigable coast Heterocera continent.

And best of all, there's no need to edit the unusual 35m high water level or the waterfalls in Moma, for which it was created. Or the road tunnel, which passes from Tiger, through Moma (its flooded!) and into Togata, which can stay as it is and remain as a charming oddity of SL.

So there you go, a solution is found.  You're welcome.

So please DO IT! 😜

Edited November 14, 2021 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[Prokofy Neva]

I'd rather have more navigable water in old Sansara and things like moving Regalis as SarahKB7 suggested than the "connect the Mainland to Bellisseria. There is such a drive to do this, and I always though it must be about the coast across from Belli making bank. There's a furious amount of activity there around Snafu and nearby sims. For a time I had a parcel in Snafu I was going to hang on to when Belli grew much further thinking perhaps I could boat to it some day, but with the ban lines there, and the no-access on parcels that some claimed originally were "preserves" -- it made no sense. I realized why the water I had got was so cheap -- oops, I should know better, it had water in front of it that didn't stay a preserve. But ultimately, I'm not much of a sailer and I can TP or fly?

But recently the BBB newsletter made very explicit what the concept is.

So just as with the Blake Sea, which was originally about "sailing" and the need to have races uninterrupted by the masses, and gradually grew into a bonanza of land sale and rental opportunities, so, too, Mainland across from Bellisseria:

We now have 1,024 square metre plots of land on each of SL's mainland continents on which to build permanent Bellisserian Embassies. As a Bellisserian institution, we want to reach out to the rest of SL. Bellisseria is gradually expanding to connect the mainland continents in new ways and we believe that all parts of SL have an important role to play. The strictly non-commercial /residential-only covenant in Belli should give rise to commercial opportunities on the lengthening border with mainland for example.

So just as with the Blake Sea, which was originally about "sailing" and the need to have races uninterrupted by the masses, and gradually grew into a bonanza of land sale and rental opportunities, so, too, Mainland across from Bellisseria.

I'm all for business. I think it should be on a level playing field without some groups getting an advantage with Linden help.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Prokofy Neva

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

I've filed a new Jira proposal to get Heterocera's coastline fixed, specifically the "Tiger-Moma-Togata" corner.

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-231433

Please leave a supportive comment if you agree. Thanks   

Edited November 15, 2021 by SarahKB7 Koskinen