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18 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Nope. She only talked about using the first name that was created when the account was created, not choosing (changing) it.

From what she wrote, the only time a person can choose the first name is when the accfounbt is created, and it goes together with the 'Resident' last name. But it must exceedingly rare that someone can choose a "preferred" first name at that point because all the last names are the same - Resident.

Phil, the option to 'go premium' is right there at sign-up. Right now it happens after the name has been chosen, but that's not to say the sign-up process will remain the same if the naming options are going to change.

I expect (and speculate) that what Dakota is referring to is the possibility of change along those lines: that the sign-up process may be re-jigged so that the 'if you take out a premium account you can choose from a set of last names - do you want to go premium before choosing a name?' option is upfront, after choosing the avatar type, but before anything else.

Yes, that specific option would only be available to new users, but - as Patch stated elsewhere - existing users would be able to change both names for the same fee.

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From a May 15th  interview with Ebbe, posted here (https://modemworld.me/designing-worlds-in-conversation-with-ebbe-altberg/#audio1) "New accounts will continue to use “Resident”; Premium users w

Out of curiosity I went to look how is the username creation process now (June 3, 2018). Linden Lab forgot very important information from that window. This is missing: Please do create a meaningf

I have an alt called 4times Nitely. He was created many years ago but I no longer use him because I can't perform as well as that any more.

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I still, very strongly, believe that very few people, if any at all, will want to not only pay premium right out the gate(most don't do that now, they sure as hell aren't going to do that later, most that choose to go premium at all take their time doing so), but then ALSO another fee on top of that........for a friggen character name.

I mean, come on here, be reasonable and realistic, LL, do some research, don't just take whatever idea someone throws in a hat without forethought. How many games (save the "not a game" argument people...it's how sl is seen by many OUTSIDE of sl...), virtual environments, etc....utilize this kind of system? How many actually make you pay...solely for a name? How effective is such a practice? Now look at how many charge for a premium type subscription(there are actually a lot that do, or at leats offer such things). How many of them make that process as confusing and lacking information as the process for doing so in sl? I'm going to actually answer that question....very few, lol. There is a reason that other virtual environments, games, etc... can offer subscription type things which offer users an extended amount of benefits over "basic accounts". It, often, works out pretty decently for them. However, MOST of them, don't have such difficulty talking to, about, and with, their target audience and current members. LL does have this complication. This thread is actually a perfect example of such a complication. Before this idea was thrown around at LL headquarters, did LL even bother to look at ALL of the information, ALL of the discussions, ALL of the commentary from residents regarding last names and why they should have never been removed, as well as how to bring them back?   The idea of charging for a last name is a bit ridiculous in and of itself, regardless of how small said fee actually is.  But combining it with not only the need to pay for premium first but then another fee on top....come on now LL, you KNEW there would be backlash, lol. You're not incompetent people, you've very intelligent people, even if you choose to rarely ever listen to your customer base. You knew people would take issue with a DOUBLE fee. Anyone of sound mind would know this.

If you're going to make people go premium for this perk...then leave it at that..a perk for a premium account. Personally, I think it's actually a good perk, and I am NO fan of the existing premium perks, I've never hid that fact, lol. If you want to charge a fee for a name change, then leave it at that, a fee, not combined with premium, just a separate fee.  Make either option a choice, or hell, both...but do not combine them. Then, you can appease both crowds, those that have no issue(regardless of how small that crowd might be, lol) with paying twice for something as trivial as a NAME, and those who don't mind paying ONCE for said name. There...problem solved, everyone can be happy (except those who think you shouldn't have to pay for a name at all, lol, but..I doubt you're trying to appease them anyway-that much is clear). LL still gets those pennies, people still get the option to change their name, and folks can move forward to complain about the next blunder.

How hard is it to really think these things through? I mean, people have been discussing this topic since resident joined the crew, it's been years, there have been countless ideas, JIRAs, discussions. People...your target and current audience, is chock full of amazing ideas, sometimes it helps to listen to them now and again and not just yourselves or your staff. 

Oh, and change the friggen signup page to TELL people that their ACCOUNT name they create...IS their dang av's name. That is the most trivial thing in the entire ordeal to d, it would take you less than five minutes to change the text on a page to explain the process quickly and simply. There's no reason for such a lack of communication.

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4 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

Oh, and change the friggen signup page to TELL people that their ACCOUNT name they create...IS their dang av's name. That is the most trivial thing in the entire ordeal to d, it would take you less than five minutes to change the text on a page to explain the process quickly and simply. There's no reason for such a lack of communication.

This is even more important with the introduction of a paid way to change your name. LL's first interaction with a potential future customer can now be boiled down to "hey I know we tricked you into signing up with the garbage username that you've been using since your first hotmail account, but you can now pay up to fix this!!1". What a perfect way to drive away players.

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1 minute ago, AyelaNewLife said:

This is even more important with the introduction of a paid way to change your name. LL's first interaction with a potential future customer can now be boiled down to "hey I know we tricked you into signing up with the garbage username that you've been using since your first hotmail account, but you can now pay up to fix this!!1". What a perfect way to drive away players.

Pretty much, lol. LL's terrible communication skills have already hurt them, and sl, in a myriad of different ways, including user retention(which is a huge sore spot, one would hope, for LL, to the point that they'd want to fix it...psssst LL, charging people double fees for a name change, ain't the droid you're looking for ;) ). So, now they're making a *choice* to scare more folks off, lol. Awesome idea  :D Because, yeah...let's ignore use retention, that's fantastic for the longevity of a virtual environment ;)  The signup process is the beginning step for proper user retention...why in the fudgecicle it's so...lackluster, lacking information..confusing even to many(we have seen people say such), in 2018... is beyond me.

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4 hours ago, Dakota Linden said:

1. ALL new accounts will be created with the Resident last name. Whether your personal choice in viewers allows that name to be hidden or not, ALL new accounts will have the last name of Resident. 

2. IF a user chooses to become a Premium Member, they will have an option to purchase a different last name. The available last names will be from a Pre-Approved, rotating, list. If you do not want to purchase the option for a different last name, then don't. No one is being FORCED to choose a last name other than Resident.

3. Will having the option to choose a last name change the gobbledy-***** first names? No. Why? Because some people will still choose to have weird or goofy first names that have no meaning at all, regardless of whether or not last names are available. 

4. Will using your preferred, chosen, first name be easier when last names are available? YES!  Why? Because you pick your own first name, then have an option from a pre-approved list of last names, to pick from.  This means you will ALWAYS be able to have your preferred, chosen, first name, even if someone else is also using that name. Provided you are a Premium Account member AND you have paid for the option to have a different last name.

This plan means that everybody who's creating new account hasn't much other choice than to create a crappy single name. Naturally they can spend ages trying to find a single name what wasn't so crappy. But most people would not spend long time in just creating an account. They won't. So the flood of crappy single names will continue.

Would people like to become premium members at the time of account creation (for example to be able to create name with last name at once)? I doubt that very much. They surely want to create free account first, then login and see what Second Life is all about. After spending good amount of time inworld, only then they have enough information to decide whether to go premium or not. Nobody wants to buy a pig in a bag.

From the users point of view the way Linden Lab intends to implement the lastnames and name change is no good at all.
First you waived a delicious candy under our noses and everybody jumped out of joy! And now you are about to offer us a half rotten carrot instead. :S

It's time to carefully re-think this name thing all over again. Do not make a big mistake (again) with lastnames.
Everybody making a new account should be able to have Firstname and selectable Last name - while creating the account.
Combining the name change possibility with premium account is really bad thing. It is, from user's point of view.

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1 hour ago, Coby Foden said:

It's time to carefully re-think this name thing all over again. Do not make a big mistake (again) with lastnames.
Everybody making a new account should be able to have Firstname and selectable Last name - while creating the account.
Combining the name change possibility with premium account is really bad thing. It is, from user's point of view.

For years people have been telling LL that the tier is too high, and it's always seemed to me both a dangerous business strategy and a distortion of the SL economy for the Lab to rely so heavily on land for its income.   

LL have recently started to do something about this, by reducing the cost of owning mainland and by increasing the Land Impact we get for our tier, and to my mind are to be applauded for it.   However, they need somehow to replace the income they would have derived from landowners.    They're using several methods -- increased fees for cashing out, for example (which primarily affects landowners and content creators) and they're planning to increase their revenue from marketplace transactions.    Another way to replace the lost income (and probably a more reliable one than some) is to encourage people to take out premium membership, and to do this they need to offer valuable incentives.  

The ability to change your name and, for many people, the ability for the first time  to have a first and last name, are clearly highly valued by many people, so it would be foolish of the Lab not to recognise this and offer the ability as a perk for  premium members.     Why give it away for free when they can easily sell it?

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37 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

The ability to change your name and, for many people, the ability for the first time  to have a first and last name, are clearly highly valued by many people, so it would be foolish of the Lab not to recognise this and offer the ability as a perk for  premium members.     Why give it away for free when they can easily sell it?

Because based on current user use of premium, and their lack of understanding of their audience....they cannot "easily" sell it.

There needs to be more to it than just that.

If it's a perk of premium, then yes, they could sell it, as easily as they sell premium now(which I am not convinced they have a whole lot of people sold on to begin with-the perks are sparingly accepted/desired, definitely not widely so). Since premium cost is going up, and they already struggle to get people to be premium, it stands to reason that the enticement of premium needs to go up too. Adding a name change as a perk, or in some cases the availability of a last name that isn't resident, COULD have the potential to increase the number of premium accounts, I doubt it ever would, but the possibility exists despite my doubt. Adding ANOTHER fee on top of it, however, will not....not just could not, but *will not* increase the number of premium accounts. It may, actually, have the opposite effect and cause far more people to second guess and choose not to go premium because..... "why would I pay for premium when the perk I want the most...aka, a name change...is going to cost me more on top of it...what is the point?". That's the consensus I see here, not "ooh a new premium perk, let me sign right up", but rather "there's no way in hell I am paying twice for a perk". 

There are countless other ways that LL can improve premium perks that will actually entice far more people to become premium and be willing to pay a hefty(to some, maybe not to all) fee to do so. We've all seen the suggestions, LL has seen the suggestions, the community has spoken on this in great detail.  A name change being a perk isn't really a great way to sell the idea of premium right out the gate to new users, let alone users that have been here for any length of time.  You WANT people to WANT to be premium, not give them a reason to say "wtf chuck....what good is premium to me now?".  That's good business sense, not cutting off your nose to spite your face, lol. Biting the hand that feeds is not a wise move for a company that needs, feels it needs to, or has told it's customer base it needs to(whether or not true) increase revenue. That's just a stupid business move from every single angle.

I'm no fan of it being a premium perk at all(for myself, I can see why it would be a good perk to others though-as I mentioned earlier in the thread, it *could be a good perk for some), it's a friggen name change and definitely NOT as enticing to most as it may be for a small portion. But if they are going that route, there is no reason to charge twice for it. There is no justification that makes it so...it's simply stupid. 


 

Edited by Tari Landar
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My suggestion would be to make two name change fees, the regular one only available for premium - but rename it a premium discount - and a much more expensive one available to all, people will then go "oh and if I go premium I will get all the premium benefits for a month on top of it for just 50 cents because of the premium discount" and will feel superwise to go premium, just as they do with the currently often recurring premium half prize offers...

But yeah those marketing mangers who make the decisions visited a business school ... LL will know what they pay them a hefty salary for.

Edited by Fionalein
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31 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

The ability to change your name and, for many people, the ability for the first time  to have a first and last name, are clearly highly valued by many people, so it would be foolish of the Lab not to recognise this and offer the ability as a perk for  premium members.     Why give it away for free when they can easily sell it?

They might find out later on to their surprise that their plan didn't bring any meaningful income after all.
Not providing good names for free at the account creation stage for virtual world seems really weird idea.
I can understand the fee for name change, that's ok, if it was available for all members, not specifically only for premium members.

There must be more inviting perks for premium members. Perks that really would have value and interest for the users. That would make people more interested to go premium.

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On 04/06/2018 at 6:30 PM, KanryDrago said:

Whether they are decent or not its a list of names that have little to no relation to me. How hard would it to have been to allow you to type a first and last name

You can do that already. Just make a username composed of a first and a last name and put them together without a space. Then, once inworld, change your display name to include the space, if you want.

Here's a few I tried, matched with my first name, paired with last names mainly borrowed from people at work

  • MattyHunter
  • MattyMorris
  • MattyRushton
  • MattyMackenzie
  • MattyFowler
  • MattyClark
  • MattyMitchell
  • MattyLogan
  • MattyBell
  • MattyRogers
  • MattyHeath
  • MattySpencer

I got bored. They were all available except MattySmith, which was presumably was claimed by a Doctor Who fan. All of them normal, ordinary, short names. 

Simples!

 

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2 minutes ago, Matty Luminos said:

You can do that already. Just make a username composed of a first and a last name and put them together without a space. Then, once inworld, change your display name to include the space, if you want.

Here's a few I tried, matched with my first name, paired with last names mainly borrowed from people at work

  • MattyHunter
  • MattyMorris
  • MattyRushton
  • MattyMackenzie
  • MattyFowler
  • MattyClark
  • MattyMitchell
  • MattyLogan
  • MattyBell
  • MattyRogers
  • MattyHeath
  • MattySpencer

I got bored. They were all available except MattySmith, which was presumably was claimed by a Doctor Who fan. All of them normal, ordinary, short names. 

Simples!

 

points at name exactly what I did. The point I was making is the surname I wanted may well have not been on that linden list. I am quite happy for people to have surnames as I have said over and over but all I said is for those who dont want one from the list to make it optional . My fear was LL would listen to all the we want surnames back crowd and decide to do some pr and give us all a choice of surname. Nothing more nothing less

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3 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

points at name exactly what I did. The point I was making is the surname I wanted may well have not been on that linden list. I am quite happy for people to have surnames as I have said over and over but all I said is for those who dont want one from the list to make it optional . My fear was LL would listen to all the we want surnames back crowd and decide to do some pr and give us all a choice of surname. Nothing more nothing less

They have already said it won't be forced on everyone, it will be a paid premium perk and thus, optional and only for those who value the idea enough to pay for it. Personally, I probably will; I never liked my last name that much. 

I wonder if they will let us view the lists before committing to pay? If the lists are going to change every couple of months I'd like to see the options before deciding whether to buy one or wait for the next list.

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Some history:
It's good to remember that Linden Lab made the big mistake by removing the ability from new users to get lastnames. It was not liked at all by the users, nobody wanted that change. But nevertheless the Lab just ignored everything what the users said. Creation of lastnames was removed (with some excuses why it was "necessary"). At the same same time display names were introduced with glorious words how they can be used "to enhance your experience". As we know it didn't work as advertised and intended. Most display names are just unreadable garbage as people started to 'decorate' their display names with most weird Unicode characters. Users are very 'inventive', if something can be misused, then it will be eventually.

Present:
Now Linden Lab plans to start 'milking' money from the innocent;) users so that Linden Lab can correct their own mistake. :/ Hmm..
Linden Lab is still the same company, even though some who were responsible for the removal of lastnames have left the company.
One would expect that the company would listen to the wishes of the users and act towards reasonable wishes.
And I think most wishes in this thread have been reasonable. (Maybe we are just banging our heads against a brick wall?)

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On 03/06/2018 at 6:43 PM, Coby Foden said:

So, the flood of crazy single names will continue. Very bad decision. :(

Some examples what names people have created:
allnamesarealreadytake
AllNamesAreBeingUsed
ALLNAMESARETAKENADAMMIT
Allnamesaretakenareyouserious
AllNamesAreTakenButImHotB1tch
allnamesaretakenincludingthis1
ALLNAMESARETAKENPLZKILLMEEEEE

etc, etc, etc...

@Ebbe Linden
Doesn't look like pleasant account creation process. ¬¬

My question is, why do you care. I see you keep pushing this issue and these comments over and over in this thread but iv been around since 2007, been part of many different communities and for the most part I see people who have reasonable usernames. There is the occasional person that has something like "PeterPetter1991" or "myusernamesucks" but who honestly cares, most stupid names are just trolls and they will always be a part of SL no matter what. Number names and stupid usernames have been around since SL opened its doors, what would you rather...being forced to choose your first name from a pre built list also?. I welcome back last names, worst mistake linden labs ever made was removing them. Its been so long since I have seen another ling in world. It was once like being part of a larger family. If anything, removing last names caused an increase in number names and stupid names. At least with last names if you wanted say "Coby Fuzzlebutt" but annoyingly it was taken yet "Coby Fizzlebits" wasn't, there are at least other options to choose from. Having said that I have a few resident alts and I have yet to HAVE to use numbers or pick a stupid name, it just takes a bit of creativity.

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6 minutes ago, chibiusa Ling said:

My question is, why do you care.
- - - - -
I welcome back last names, worst mistake linden labs ever made was removing them.

Ok, I care because I liked the last names feature available for everybody at account creation.
And now Linden Lab is going to bring them in back the way they like, but apparently the users are not excited at all about that way.

My question to you is, why do you care?

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14 minutes ago, Coby Foden said:

Ok, I care because I liked the last names feature available for everybody at account creation.
And now Linden Lab is going to bring them in back the way they like, but apparently the users are not excited at all about that way.

My question to you is, why do you care?

It will be available at account creation. At the linden Q&A last month it was stated by ebbe somewhere that new accounts will be able to create with a last name and current resident accounts will be able to change theirs, for a fee

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10 minutes ago, chibiusa Ling said:

It will be available at account creation. At the linden Q&A last month it was stated by ebbe somewhere that new accounts will be able to create with a last name and current resident accounts will be able to change theirs, for a fee

Lindens changed their mind. See Dakota Linden's post about halfway down the previous page. All new accounts will still have the Resident last name. Premium accounts will be able to pay some unspecified amount to choose a last name from a list of possible names.

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@Dakota Linden But what about the huge number of residents who in the absence of last names, made combined FirstLast names? All we want is a space!

Free form last names as an option would be very welcome and shouldn't pose any greater issues than the existing free form first name ?

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12 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

2. Your old names don't become available again once you change your name. This also means you couldn't change your name to one you've had before.

^ this

a capability to revert would be a good thing

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On 6/5/2018 at 12:30 PM, KanryDrago said:

Then I obviously have it off even though I have never bothered turning it off. Same when I downloaded the sl viewer just now and logged on without changing anything

i agree with your main point which kinda got swallowed up in the subsequent chatter

that when actual Last Names do come back then LL in the official viewer codebase continue to not display Resident, as thats the current and expected behaviour

that a TPV put code back into their viewer to enable display of the Resident lastname placeholder after LL removed it from the official codebase falls into the vanity feature set. Vanity features are options that are not necessary in a functional sense. They address the psychologicals of how a person feels. And if people feel that displaying Resident on their own screen through the use of a third-party add-on helps them to deal with their feelings then I am not going to advocate that they can't

 

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10 hours ago, Dakota Linden said:

Greetings all!

It is wise not to speculate about what "might" happen at some time in the future regarding anything related to Second Life, or life in general for that matter. 

1. ALL new accounts will be created with the Resident last name. Whether your personal choice in viewers allows that name to be hidden or not, ALL new accounts will have the last name of Resident. 

2. IF a user chooses to become a Premium Member, they will have an option to purchase a different last name. The available last names will be from a Pre-Approved, rotating, list. If you do not want to purchase the option for a different last name, then don't. No one is being FORCED to choose a last name other than Resident.

3. Will having the option to choose a last name change the gobbledy-***** first names? No. Why? Because some people will still choose to have weird or goofy first names that have no meaning at all, regardless of whether or not last names are available. 

4. Will using your preferred, chosen, first name be easier when last names are available? YES!  Why? Because you pick your own first name, then have an option from a pre-approved list of last names, to pick from.  This means you will ALWAYS be able to have your preferred, chosen, first name, even if someone else is also using that name. Provided you are a Premium Account member AND you have paid for the option to have a different last name. 

 

Seriously, guys come on. If your bringing back first names bring them back for all residents including new accounts. I get you want to milk more money out of the community but seriously. If your bringing them back then do it properly. Give them a choice on creating an account whether they want to pick a last name or stick with resident. I feel like you guys at linden labs go one step forward two steps back sometimes

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30 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

@Dakota Linden But what about the huge number of residents who in the absence of last names, made combined FirstLast names? All we want is a space!

agree with the sentiment

I would suggest that the single most important thing LL could do in all of this, is enable a person such as yourself to be able to rephrase their own existing name. By allowing you to split your name into First and Lastname.  Coffee your first, Dejour your Last for exaample.

LL have said that they will take suggestions for Last Names from the community. So you should be able to suggest Dejour for that list. You might have to wait a while for it to appear on the current list but I think LL should accept that your suggestion will appear at some time on the list

Tte issue with this is that LL have said we won't be able to take a name already in use. Its a fail point if we cant rephrase our own name. As I don't think you would want to be left with an only option like: CoffeeDujour Dujour

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7 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

I mean, come on here, be reasonable and realistic, LL, do some research, don't just take whatever idea someone throws in a hat without forethought. How many games (save the "not a game" argument people...it's how sl is seen by many OUTSIDE of sl...), virtual environments, etc....utilize this kind of system? How many actually make you pay...solely for a name? How effective is such a practice?

  • Blizzard (BattleNet) account - I changed once.
  • League of Legends - I've changed 3-4 times across 2 accounts (different servers).
  • Warframe - Changed once.
  • Almost every MMORPG (which I think SL could be put under):
    • Final Fantasy XIV - Changed my race once (and plan to do it again, but you can pay for name change too).
      • Also has a mandatory monthly subscription fee to play.
    • World of Warcraft
    • Elder Scrolls Online
    • Guild Wars 2
    • ArcheAge
    • TERA
    • Vindictus
    • Maplestory
    • Everquest
    • ...
Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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@Wulfie - can add Club Penguin to the list. To get your own name you had to get a payfor account. Yesterdays children are todays adults who don't see this as a big deal. Paying for a inworld name is pretty common. Inworld names are like a asset property to many online people. In the same way as other inworld/game assets that enhance our sense of well-being

 

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