The Latest on Last Names

[Theresa Tennyson]

13 minutes ago, Resi Pfeffer said:

Maybe i should point out the sarcasm in my last post.
Or take it as an advice for LL to gain even more money, or to make people finally wander off to Sansar ^^

You thought you were being sarcastic - as I said, what you proposed isn't uncommon. What is uncommon is the bizarre lust to have a name chosen from  a list, but within Second Life it's apparently widespread. Outside? Well, that's an interesting question.

(Oh, and if you do the math, the trip to Maitreya costs more than the least-cost-effective option for a month of premium membership.)

Edited June 8, 2018 by Theresa Tennyson

[Resi Pfeffer]

8 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

You thought you were being sarcastic - as I said, what you proposed isn't uncommon. What is uncommon is the bizarre lust to have a name chosen from  a list, but within Second Life it's apparently widespread. Outside? Well, that's an interesting question.

Probably you´re right. The reality is faster than my thoughts...
I also dont get it, why a list of names is better than a freely chosen name made out of 2 components. But lets keep grumble about it, to force Dakota to make another statement.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Resi Pfeffer
typo

[Spin Barbosa]

I'm totally opposed to bringing back last names. I have a real last name, and I LOVE lording it over the plebian Residents. Bow before me, For I am older than you! Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!!! Oh, the power of having a proper first, and last name, it rushes to my head and makes me giddy!

Shhh, let's just keep this among us here, though. I have a friend who is much older than me, and she'll beat me savagely if she hears I am swinging my Barabosa around again.

Also, I am an Alt. I kidnapped my main and buried him under a slab of concrete. So that makes me the main now, doesn't it?

 

[Callum Meriman]

10 hours ago, Resi Pfeffer said:

I also dont get it, why a list of names is better than a freely chosen name made out of 2 components. 

My guess...

The reason given in the past was to ensure no "bad" names snuck in. Masked swear words in other languages, clever word play that was X rated.

We know our UUID is fixed and based on name from previous threads. We know that changing a name is rather difficult and ends up meaning the change needs to be done in the world, in the marketplace, in the forums, maybe other places.

So what happens if people create a name that is a masked swear?

We know that the original design was butt-faced-stupid that such administrative name changes would have been impossible. There wasn't much solution outside of what we got thanks to the rigidity of choosing the name to generate the UUID and no mapping in the database to allow for administrative changes.

The result was a list of pre-vetted innocuous names that could reduce the problem.

Patch has said he was responsible for the list. It was also said the reason last names were stopped as it was a huge amount of work, finding safe names in all languages took a lot of time.

Bad design.

I welcome dakota and patch to correct any mistakes there. I doubt they will, they might get the idea the residents are not happy with this plan for double dipping, and also reinforcing the bad design choices, as it stands.

Time for open last names. Use an administrative change to get rid of the rude ones.

[Chic Aeon]

16 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

We know our UUID is fixed and based on name from previous threads. We know that changing a name is rather difficult and ends up meaning the change needs to be done in the world, in the marketplace, in the forums, maybe other places.

Note that it has been stated officially by Ebbe (once in Town Hall and again in Designing Worlds interview and maybe other places as it seems like I have heard it a lot, that scripts will no longer run on names at all. It was stressed that scripters needed to start using the UUID INSTEAD of names, so it seems like something is going to change there. 

Indeed content may get broken. It certainly sounded like it might.  Not being a script person (I can change but not make) I may have part of that wrong, but you get the idea.  

Hopefully the script folks know this!

 

[ellestones]

7 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

 It was stressed that scripters needed to start using the UUID INSTEAD of names

the script function llKey2Name will still be available. What we are urged to do is to not use the avatar name as an identifier as the person may change their name breaking our script.  A example of what not to do anymore:

list names = 
[
  "Some Avatar",
  "SomeOther Avatar",
  "AndSomeOther Avatar"
];


touch(int num)
{
   if llKey2Name(llDetectedKey(0)) is in list names then they can operate the device
}

if "Some Avatar" changes their name then they will no longer be able to operate the device

to prevent this breakage in new scripts going forward then:

list uuids = 
[
  x-x-x-x,    // Some Avatar
  y-y-y-y,    // SomeOther Avatar
  z-z-z-z     ///AndSomeOther Avatar
];


touch(int num)
{
   if llDetectedKey(0) is in list uuids then they can operate the device
}

 

[Phil Deakins]

9 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Note that it has been stated officially by Ebbe (once in Town Hall and again in Designing Worlds interview and maybe other places as it seems like I have heard it a lot, that scripts will no longer run on names at all. It was stressed that scripters needed to start using the UUID INSTEAD of names, so it seems like something is going to change there. 

Indeed content may get broken. It certainly sounded like it might.  Not being a script person (I can change but not make) I may have part of that wrong, but you get the idea.  

Hopefully the script folks know this!

Scripts don't actually "run on names".

It's only scripts that need to identify avatars that won't work as well as they did. A security device that stores only names, for instance, won't recognise an avatar if the avatar has changed its name.

At first, it won't make any difference to anything, because name-changes aren't suddenly going to sweep through the population. I'd hazzard a guess that it will be quite some time before anything is even slightly noticed.

[Theresa Tennyson]

13 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

My guess...

The reason given in the past was to ensure no "bad" names snuck in. Masked swear words in other languages, clever word play that was X rated.

We know our UUID is fixed and based on name from previous threads. We know that changing a name is rather difficult and ends up meaning the change needs to be done in the world, in the marketplace, in the forums, maybe other places.

So what happens if people create a name that is a masked swear?

We know that the original design was butt-faced-stupid that such administrative name changes would have been impossible. There wasn't much solution outside of what we got thanks to the rigidity of choosing the name to generate the UUID and no mapping in the database to allow for administrative changes.

The result was a list of pre-vetted innocuous names that could reduce the problem.

Patch has said he was responsible for the list. It was also said the reason last names were stopped as it was a huge amount of work, finding safe names in all languages took a lot of time.

Bad design.

I welcome dakota and patch to correct any mistakes there. I doubt they will, they might get the idea the residents are not happy with this plan for double dipping, and also reinforcing the bad design choices, as it stands.

Time for open last names. Use an administrative change to get rid of the rude ones.

Last names aren't coded as a string of letters in your avatar information like your "first" name is; they're a numeric value that is looked up from a database. This means that either the name system would have to be completely re-written or the last name database would balloon. System described in these minutes starting at about [15:42]:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Server_Office_Hours/Minutes/2012-03-08

 

[KanryDrago]

1 hour ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Last names aren't coded as a string of letters in your avatar information like your "first" name is; they're a numeric value that is looked up from a database. This means that either the name system would have to be completely re-written or the last name database would balloon. System described in these minutes starting at about [15:42]:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Server_Office_Hours/Minutes/2012-03-08

 

assuming a varchar[50] for the surname field and an int id field in the last name table and further assuming 50 million customers flocking to create a last name we are talking of a database expansion of something in the order of 2.5 gb of data. Its really a trivial amount frankly and not an excuse

[Theresa Tennyson]

15 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

assuming a varchar[50] for the surname field and an int id field in the last name table and further assuming 50 million customers flocking to create a last name we are talking of a database expansion of something in the order of 2.5 gb of data. Its really a trivial amount frankly and not an excuse

Are you going to download all that information to everyone's viewers on login (and upon additional names being added, of course) or are you going to have everyone request lookups from it every time someone with a last name appears? The database crashed when Oskar was poking at it during that meeting.

Of course, you'll need to check it for redundancy every time someone creates a last name because you don't want to deal with Bob 437865(Johnson) having an apparently identical name to Bob 567354(Johnson.) You also should have some way of preventing lookalike last names (i.e. spoofing a lowercase L with an uppercase I or vice versa.)

Edited June 9, 2018 by Theresa Tennyson

[KanryDrago]

7 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Are you going to download all that information to everyone's viewers on login (and upon additional names being added, of course) or are you going to have everyone request lookups from it every time someone with a last name appears? The database crashed when Oskar was poking at it during that meeting.

Sigh you really think they download everyones first name now when you log in or just load the names of the people in the region you are in. The time difference to join the two tables in the query of names of people in my vicinity is nano seconds if its even measurable

[Wulfie Reanimator]

17 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

assuming a varchar[50] for the surname field and an int id field in the last name table and further assuming 50 million customers flocking to create a last name we are talking of a database expansion of something in the order of 2.5 gb of data. Its really a trivial amount frankly and not an excuse

You can't assume it would be that simple to change how the database is operated on or how anything outside of it might be connected. Development (especially for systems this old) is rarely even remotely easy. 

7 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Are you going to download all that information to everyone's viewers on login (and upon additional names being added, of course) or are you going to have everyone request lookups from it every time someone with a last name appears? The database crashed when Oskar was poking at it during that meeting.

You don't need the viewer to download anything related to names. The avatar name inworld is just a string that's sent to you just the same it always has been. 

[KanryDrago]

1 minute ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

You can't assume it would be that simple to change how the database is operated on or how anything outside of it might be connected. Development (especially for systems this old) is rarely even remotely easy. 

You don't need the viewer to download anything related to names. The avatar name inworld is just a string that's sent to you just the same it always has been. 

No you are right I can't assume for definite but from what Theresa linked it implies the account/avatar table has a foreignkey Id for linking to a LastName table which is used to append a textualised last name to the account. Given that as long as the progammers didnt do anything too silly such as making the foreign key contraint an 8 bit integer then we can assume all the last name lookups would likely still work or at most need minor tweaking. Is is supposition yes and it could be vastly more complex from the linked information however it sounds like it shouldn't be too difficult

[BobbyGeorge]

On ‎08‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 11:55 PM, Callum Meriman said:

My guess...

The reason given in the past was to ensure no "bad" names snuck in. Masked swear words in other languages, clever word play that was X rated.

 

Bit off-topic, but I never really understood this. You can find inworld clubs dedicated to tentacle sex and prison rape fantasies, and typical infohub mic chat sounded like a bunch of drunken sailors with Tourettes . Would it really shock the average SL user if someone had a bit of a rude name?

[Phorumities]

7 minutes ago, BobbyGeorge said:

Bit off-topic, but I never really understood this. You can find inworld clubs dedicated to tentacle sex and prison rape fantasies, and typical infohub mic chat sounded like a bunch of drunken sailors with Tourettes . Would it really shock the average SL user if someone had a bit of a rude name?

Perhaps not the average user but most certainly the hypersensitive see offence in everything user. And those are the ones that file abuse reports.

[Cindy Evanier]

56 minutes ago, BobbyGeorge said:

Would it really shock the average SL user if someone had a bit of a rude name?

As far as i know profiles are supposed to be PG or General or whatever the term is these days;  I guess that goes for a name too

[steeljane42]

57 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

As far as i know profiles are supposed to be PG or General or whatever the term is these days;  I guess that goes for a name too

I know there's some old info about that, but if you put certain keywords into your profile, they become M or A in websearch, depending on words. I'd imagine LL wouldn't add such functionality if PG only profiles were a thing. Either way, there are hundreds of thousands of M and A rated profiles, so it's safe to say LL is fine with that.

Edited June 13, 2018 by steeljane42

[Whirly Fizzle]

AS far as I'm aware, you can have mature/adult content in the text of your profile - there is a script that runs (not sure how often) that will set your profile to M or A if there are any M/A words in it.
All images in the profile must be PG however.

[Blush Bravin]

On 6/5/2018 at 10:56 AM, Dakota Linden said:

It is wise not to speculate about what "might" happen at some time in the future regarding anything related to Second Life, or life in general for that matter. 

 

I'm making a sign in big bold letters with this on it and hanging it in my office. Hopefully if I read it once or twice a day I will stop speculating.

[Rhonda Huntress]

On 6/5/2018 at 10:56 AM, Dakota Linden said:

It is wise not to speculate about what "might" happen at some time in the future regarding anything related to Second Life,

 

1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

I'm making a sign in big bold letters with this on it and hanging it in my office. Hopefully if I read it once or twice a day I will stop speculating.

Where's then fun in that?

Don't stop thinking about the possibilities; just keep in mind that it is only speculation, wild what-ifs and fanciful dreams.  Anticipation before the reveal has its own appeal.  Just don't make plans based on fairy tales.

[Drayke Newall]

I must be the only one that seems to think the whole last name idea to be a stupid one that just complicates everything for the new user experience and a step backwards, especially given that display names are a thing. Why cant the whole process be like any other gaming (yes we all know SL isn't a game) account creation process.

For example:

• You have an account/login name which must be unique (User453* or whatever) and is chosen at account creation. The account name is hidden in all aspects of SL, so wont show in profile, search, MP, forums etc (makes the account more secure as people can't see any aspect of your login details at all anywhere).
• You also have a Display name which works as it does now. You also choose your display name at account creation for your avatar with a clause under stating that this Display Name is what your avatar will be shown as in all aspects of SL, however, can be changed at a minimal fee of L$20 (or whatever) at any time or make it so that you have to be in the first tier of premium to change your display name.
• Any legacy name either last name or resident, upon login when the system is implemented, is given a dialog requiring the user to enter a new display name (for free) explaining the above as a reason. Their last name or resident name is automatically defaulted as their account/login name and then hidden in all areas of SL.

The above allows LL a general income of X (similar to how partnerships work now), makes the naming system simpler, allows for people to see only one name to an avatar (instead of having to tick boxes in options to display both user and display names) and makes the account a little more secure.

There are only a few downsides to this method that I can see. Those serial name change people that seemingly like to spam people in chat every week with X is now known as Y. If this is an issue make second tier of premium to give the user 1 or 2 free name changes per month. Another will be the older script issues unless the script calls for the avatar UUID (which I would assume to be the better method anyway) but in all honesty half the problem with SL now is the fear of breaking old legacy scripts/Objects (most of which are sold by people who haven't been in SL for years with no update to current/better standards) which has impacted on SL moving forward.

Additionally (and I think better) using the above method could also allow for a handle instead of a username and provide the ability for multiple avatars per account (with the cap of how many avatars per account being tied to which premium tier you choose). This once again simplifying the new user experience as firstly they are used to it through other programs and games and secondly means not having to remember multiple passwords and usernames for one game/program.

Considering the whole last name thing is in the process of being implemented anyway, it is probably to much hassle to rework it.Also given how the resident naming was implemented years ago perhaps the current code just doesn't allow for drastic changes..

Edited June 18, 2018 by Drayke Newall
typo's

[ThorinII]

I think the Lastnames should be available at Account creation, to chose from a list - just the same procedure like before their demise.

That said, I think all with the placeholder Resident instead of a Lastname should have a one time chance to get a Lastname for free, every other name change (also for all the other "Lastnamers", as Klytyna calls them) should be for Premium accounts only, plus a good fee (in USD).

Edited June 18, 2018 by ThorinII

[Fionalein]

They just decided to keep Resident and charge for name changes, let's be realistic, I doubt we will be able to talk them out of that one anymore, no matter how good the arguments are.

[Phil Deakins]

1 hour ago, ThorinII said:

I think the Lastnames should be available at Account creation, to chose from a list - just the same procedure like before their demise.

That said, I think all with the placeholder Resident instead of a Lastname should have a one time chance to get a Lastname for free, every other name change (also for all the other "Lastnamers", as Klytyna calls them) should be for Premium accounts only, plus a good fee (in USD).

Last names at account creation, and 'Residents' getting a free change, would be the most desirable things to happen, but LL isn't looking at it from the users' perspective. In fact, they aren't doing it for the users. They are doing it for money - to be a part of rebalancing where the company's income comes from. If that's the case, one might think that they'd be better off if paid name-changes were for all and not just for Premiums. And that might be right, but they seem to think that the number of additional Premiums they'll get, due to the perk of being able to change the name, will generate more money.

I've no idea which is likely to generate the most income. What I do know, from what LL has said so far, is that new accounts will continue to be surnamed 'Resident', and name changes will only be for Premiums - at least some Premiums, because we don't know anything about the planned Premium levels yet.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Phil Deakins]

One important thing that has come out of this thread is that it is important to tell new sign-ups that the account name they choose will be their avatar's name, as they move around in SL. I do hope that that's got back to whoever decides these things.

Or maybe they already knew that, and won't make it obvious on sign-up, so that those who are disappointed at finding that their account's name turned out to be their avatar's name will be tempted to go Premium just for the name-change.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Phil Deakins