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Suella Ember

Avatar Physics - Recommended Settings.

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One last set of number that seem to be working right ....

Bounce:
25, 10, 45, 50

Cleavage:
25, 10, 45, 50

Sway
15, 10, 45, 50

 

I am getting a nice movement when walking, a small extra bounce when I stop (I want to get rid of that eventually) and no spastic flapping from standing around.

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Suella Ember wrote:

Thanks Jenni - just the sort of thing I was hoping for. I knew someone would have done some research:)

 

Jenni Darkwatch wrote:

I really wish some Torley...er... Linden lab employee would make a good guide on that one, explaining EXACTLY what the sliders do ~g~

I'm kinda hoping thats on Torley's ... er ... an LL employee's 'to do list'! 

 

 

This is a bit hard to read on a screenshot, but you can find it by clicking on the ? in the top right corner of the edit appearance window.

Editing Physics.jpeg

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Rhonda Huntress wrote:

Odder yet, as long as I have my mouse over the SL window, my boobs behave and sit still.  I click over here on the web browser and they start shaking like a couple of maracas.

That's a side effect of the client yielding CPU time. The physics code wigs out (only on your screen) if the client lags. Try a busy sim, you'll get the same issue (depending on your CPU and settings).

 

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Thanks for that :) I've either been too blonde to click on that, or I swear it wasn't there when I first (and last) experimented with that when it first came out.

~makes sure to stand under a grounded roof~ I think I'll pretend it wasn't there. :)

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Jenni Darkwatch wrote:

Thanks for that
:)
I've either been too blonde to click on that, or I swear it wasn't there when I first (and last) experimented with that when it first came out.

~makes sure to stand under a grounded roof~ I think I'll pretend it wasn't there.
:)

 

@ Jenni & Rhonda,

You;re very welcome, I must admit that even though it helped a bit to know what the sliders do, I still totally sucked at getting a good effect lol :D

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Actually you shouldn't rely on that description too much, because as I can see they wrote it rather rushedly and there some things it describes wrong, like the difference between having the slider low or high is in many places put in backwards from the actual results.

In order to make good results you also need to know which slider makes shake go in which direction and from moving in which direction it is activated.

And could that description get any more vague? "area of effect, modeled mass, air resistance"...

It must take some long time moving a posing stand around to figure what does what and in which combination the diferent effects work best.

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Bell,

Which sliders are you seeing reversed?  They all seemed to be accurate to me.

Area of effect:  this is a spell that affects more than one target; I don't see it in the description, but there is an "air effect."  That is part of the air resistance.  It will work the same as flexible prims.  There is a blowing wind in SL.  If you have your body parts air resistance turned up you will see them reacting to the air current.  Modeled mass is another way of saying how much this part weighs.

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Rhonda Huntress

"Which sliders are you seeing reversed?  They all seemed to be accurate to me."

For instance the mass. It says the higher the heavier. But when you make it low, it gives a quickier and jerkier animation, while setting to high makes it float around slowly like a baloon.

 

"Area of effect:  this is a spell that affects more than one target; I don't see it in the description, but there is an "air effect."  That is part of the air resistance.  It will work the same as flexible prims.  There is a blowing wind in SL.  If you have your body parts air resistance turned up you will see them reacting to the air current.  Modeled mass is another way of saying how much this part weighs."

I meant "size of effect". What does it mean?

I'm sure the physics don't react to wind, do they?

And indeed it says "modeled mass", but when seeing what it does is like Spring and Dumping mixed together, fast-forwards or slow-motions the effect, not looking like it has anything to do with weight.

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I have been playing with settings on beta and now 2.6.3
I have found that what pleases me one moment looks absurd the next
Also it looks as if there are some changes from beta to now in the strength of the settings

One thing is obvious:
When you instantly change pose you will get a huge unnatural effect whenever physics is on
I can live with that

It is sensible that unnatural moves causes unnatural bouncing of body parts

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Dora Gustafson wrote:

It is sensible that unnatural moves causes unnatural bouncing of body parts

Does that mean when Peewee bounces up and down like Tigger she should expect to poke her own eye out & possibly break her nose? Smiley - Robot.gif

 

/me moves certain Gestures into new "Dangerous" category lol :D

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Bell Lectar wrote:

For instance the mass. It says the higher the heavier. But when you make it low, it gives a quickier and jerkier animation, while setting to high makes it float around slowly like a baloon.

 

Think of it like putting a soccer ball (low mass) and a bowling ball (high mass) in the back of a van and go driving around.  The soccer ball will react faster and move quicker but the bowling ball is harder to stop once it gets moving.

 

I need to play with the air resistance some and see just how it works.  Tatas flowing in the breeze does sound strange. 

 

Size of effect, as far as I can tell, is just how far off area will move.  For breasts, that means how high up and down they will bounce.  What I really have not got a handle on is the difference between cleavage and sway.

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I think air resistance in the Drag means how or big the motion has to be to trigger the shaking.

Little drag makes it so there is almost never any shake and it takes a really far and sudden movement to shake any. So it shakes rarely.

High drag means the shaknig starts at the slightest tremble. So it shakes often.

 

 

Rhonda Huntress:

~~~~"What I really have not got a handle on is the difference between cleavage and sway.."~~~~

Three breast physics adjust sections separate moving the avatar in which direction make the breasts shake in which direction.

Bounce makes upside-down shake from being moved vertically

Cleavage makes side to side shaking which is pointed rather towards the cleavage than the outside, triggered from the avatar being moved forwards and backwards.

Sway is making breasts shake side to side, rather towards the sides than towards the cleavage, from the avatar veing moved to the side.

Rhonda Huntress:

~~~~"Size of effect, as far as I can tell, is just how far off area will move.  For breasts, that means how high up and down they will bounce."~~~~

 

That's what reading the help description makes you think, that the Gain with its "size of effect" and the Max effect with its "maximum range of movement" are two sliders that do one and the same thing.

But if you actually compare the effects having them maxed and minimized, you see that it's the Max Effect that follows the description, and Gain changes nothing.

Either that "size of effect" description is wrong or we are both getting it wrong.

What exactly does Gain do?

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Jenni Darkwatch wrote:

The trick to realistic physics settings seems to be in understanding what the sliders actually _do_. It took me a while, and I'm not sure I figured it out correctly (I'm not usually in human shape).

 

This is what I gathered on what they do:

Changes in timing and velocity are what determines if enough G-force has been reached (through body movement) to justify a physics effect. If there's enough then the effect is triggered and it runs 1 iteration (one time through), although it's possible through your settings to have many REtriggered effects play back to back for a single movement (think jiggle).

Max Effect: The maximum relative distance that a triggered physics effect can move that body part.

Spring: How fast the triggered physics effect takes to complete a single bounce/jiggle/flop (1 iteration). Functions the same as "rebound" does in Phoenix.

Gain: Determines the balance of the triggered physics effects. 0 = off. Low = nearly all effects for that body part will be small, subtle movements. Medium = balanced, half of the triggered effects will be small, half will be big. 100 = all triggered effects will produce 'Max Effect' level bounces.

Dampening: (deadening, falloff) The amount of resistance against the effect once it has been triggered. Set low to allow for more Retriggers (more jiggles to each wiggle). Set high to stifle a really big flop and prevent it from REtriggering again.

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Rhonda Huntress:

~~~~"Gain is how quickly it will move.    Compaired to dampening, gain is how fast it will start up and dampening is how fast it will settle down."~~~~

What do you mean, qucik to start up? An avatar movement has to be quick to cause a jerk, naturally moving slowly wouldn't cause any effect. And after the avatar is shaken once, the very first bounce will be the strongest and the next will be weaker as it stops.

What does it mean, "Gain makes for a quicker start"?

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Dana Hickman:

~~~~"Gain: Determines the balance of the triggered physics effects. 0 = off. Low = nearly all effects for that body part will be small, subtle movements. Medium = balanced, half of the triggered effects will be small, half will be big. 100 = all triggered effects will produce 'Max Effect' level bounces."~~~~

Again, what do you mean by "balance of triggered effects"? Every single effect is separated into different sections in the edit window, and every separate effect section has it's own Gain slider that controls it.

It is Max Effect that controls how far it will move, and the first movement is always the biggest with following ones being smaller.

And if you check it, and compare the difference between a 0 Gain and 100 Gain, it changes nothing.

Or is there something you see it actually doing and I just don't notice it? Can you tell what exactly, not in a vague "size and balance of effects"?

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Bell Lectar wrote:

~~~~"Gain: Determines the balance of the triggered physics effects. 0 = off. Low = nearly all effects for that body part will be small, subtle movements. Medium = balanced, half of the triggered effects will be small, half will be big. 100 = all triggered effects will produce 'Max Effect' level bounces."~~~~

Again, what do you mean by "balance of triggered effects"? Every single effect is separated into different sections in the edit window, and every separate effect section has it's own Gain slider that controls it.

It is Max Effect that controls how far it will move, and the first movement is always the biggest with following ones being smaller.

And if you check it, and compare the difference between a 0 Gain and 100 Gain, it changes nothing.

Or is there something you see it actually doing and I just don't notice it? Can you tell what exactly, not in a vague "size and balance of effects"?

 

Sorry for the confusion.. I shouldn't have had "effects" plural in that name. For each effect category, like you say, it's the max effect that controls the LIMIT to how how far each effect CAN move.. but if you look closely (with gain set to 50) you'll see that not every effect that happens (as a first effect, not a retriggered jiggle) is as large as what you have set for max effect (upper limit). It is the gain slider that adjusts the intensity of all those smaller movements that fall in between effect level 1 and max effect level. For each category like bounce, sway, and cleavage, you have a gain to set how large you want the majority of bounces to be, and a max effect to set a limit to the biggest impact and prevent black eyes. Gain seems to function very much like a threshold slider.

The reason you weren't seeing any difference between gain 0 and gain 100 is you were either telling it to ignore anything less than a max effect jolt (gain 0), or telling it to make everything that's less than a max effect jolt BE a max effect jolt (gain 100). They look identical as far as motion, but you'll see a lot more of them with gain 100 because it's also giving max effect impacts for all the little bounces as well. One of the other things that make all the nice subtleties of gain hard to adjust (or even see) is having too much set on Advanced-->Mass and/or Gravity. Those 2 settings seems to counteract gain and eat up the lower end of its adjustments, so if they're too high you actually lose smaller effect movements that normally would've shown.

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Thank you so much for opening this thread, as it helps so much with finding that ideal physics effects for my avatar and making it look as realistic as how I wanted it to be. Before, I had most of my slider way below 10 since I don't want to have too much jiggle and since I'm an almost flat-chested person and have a flat butt too (literally a log (^ ^)). However, the boobies still moves a lot when I'm idle and on my standing animation. I don't want a lot of jiggle but a tiny weeny movement when I jump or dance just so make it look a bit real.

So thank you all for making me understand the use of Damping and so far, putting it in the middle of the slider helps with making it not jiggle when not doing much movement.

I will continue experimenting until I get my desired physics effects. Again, thank you all (^_^)/

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Any use of AV-physics, and in fact use of V2.6.3, should keep this Jirra in mind:

 

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25479?

 

At this point in time the only reasonable solution is to either no longer associate with anyone who does not use V2.6.3 (yeah right), or 'revert-grade' back to v2.6.1 or earlier:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Release/2.6.1

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Peewee Musytari wrote:

 Jenni Darkwatch wrote:

I really wish some Torley...er... Linden lab employee would make a good guide on that one, explaining EXACTLY what the sliders do ~g~

I'm kinda hoping thats on Torley's ... er ... an LL employee's 'to do list'! 

 

 

This is a bit hard to read on a screenshot, but you can find it by clicking on the ? in the top right corner of the edit appearance window.

Editing Physics.jpeg


The fine folks at Phoenix have a description that I find a little more helpful at http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/doku.php?id=phoenix_avatar_physics#what_does_each_slider_do .  Like everyone else, my alt and I have been having fun playing with the numbers.  We've decided that there is no perfect set of parameters.  It all depends on what you are wearing and what you're doing.  For general, I'm-not-going-to-mess-with-this-any-more purposes, though, I like

Breast Bounce: 28 30 28 50

Breast Cleavage: 10 19 12 50

Breast Sway: 10 20 14 50

for a breast mass of 7, gravity of 6, and drag of 10.  ( I don't do belly and butt. :smileytongue: )

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

Any use of AV-physics, and in fact use of V2.6.3, should keep this Jirra in mind:

 

 

At this point in time the only reasonable solution is to either no longer associate with anyone who does not use V2.6.3 (yeah right), or 'revert-grade' back to v2.6.1 or earlier:


The patch in Phoenix seems to work fine as a workaround for VWR-25479.

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