Make enter a normal linefeed not linefeed + empty line.

[Richardus Raymaker]

In the begin of the new forum i pointed already on this bad implementation of using the enter key wrong. It's giving you enter + extra line instead of just go to the next line.

So somebody told me use SHIFT+ENTER that worked. But still not agree with this bad implementation that is wrong.

Now where back on the same problem. because SHIFT+ENTER does not work on my onscreen keyboard. it keeps adding a white line.

 

Please change this  ad enter implementation in the correct one. enter = next line.

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

In most word processors (MS Word and Apple's Pages, for example) Enter creates a new paragraph while Shift+Enter creates a new line. The SL forum simply continues this widely expected behavior. Apple's pages automatically capitalizes the first character typed after Enter, but not after Shift-Enter. Pages will also automatically insert a blank line if set to do so. Word, Pages, this forum and most of the text editors I know use Enter to terminate entries in bullet-lists and Shift-Enter to create new lines within an entry.

Many of the forums I frequent behave like the SL forum, especially those that support bullet lists. I understand your frustration, but think you should direct your ire Apple or Google, who created the virtual keyboards that don't seem to support Enter/Shift-Enter.

ETA: I keep a little note, accessible from all my iOS devices, that contains special characters like ™, π, etc. I also have a soft return there. It's cumbersome, but doable. You can also educate your spell checker so it replaces some phrase like "sr" with an actual soft return character.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Madelaine McMasters

[Richardus Raymaker]

Then if wordprocessors made this wring not known implementation. never seen it in libreoffice in 17 years ago in office. So i do not call it normal And because microsoft is doing it wrong. forums need todo it wrong to ?

Oh automatic uppercase does libreoffice to. it's the first annoying thing you need to turn off.

It's doing more bad then good. What's with press shift when you need uppercade ?

And i do not see a paragraph option to enable to.

Oh, lucky i do not use apple or google mobile disaster sty

Just a windows tablet in desktop mode is mobile enough.

It's just a global bad and wrong implementation on forums todo it the wrong way by add a linefeed when pressing enter. no text or notepad or program language i know or use is doing it.

 

[Coffee Pancake]

Breaking up lines makes the forum easier to read. It might not be wordprecessor perfect, but that's because this isn't a wordprocessor.

[Solar Legion]

Congrats - you have a personal opinion on how the "Enter" or "return" key should function.

Your personal experience is with Libre Office? That's lovely. Libre Office did not exist 17 years ago: Libre Office was first released January 25th, 2011 as a fork of Open Office. Open Office was first released on May 1st 2002, its final release coincides with the first release of Libre Office. Open Office was an open sourced variant of Star Office, first released in 1985 with a final release in 2010.

If you're going to pull such software suites out to try and back your viewpoint, try to be just a bit more accurate, hmm?

Enter vs. Shift+Enter is rather trivial - work around it.

[Coby Foden]

8 hours ago, Richardus Raymaker said:

Then if wordprocessors made this wring not known implementation. never seen it in libreoffice in 17 years ago in office.

You haven't looked well.

LibreOffice has also a setting to add spacing between paragraphs. The default is no spacing between paragraphs.
A new paragraph even in LibreOffice is created by pressing the Enter-key.
Shift+Enter combination creates new line but not new paragraph.

The setting to add spacing between paragraphs is in the Properties window. Spacing: "Below Paragraph Spacing".

Thus LibreOffice works just like any other word processor - the standard generally accepted way. Which is good way.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Coby Foden

[Richardus Raymaker]

We never will fit true the same door. in this time add enter + extra linefeed is weird. and it makes reading for sure not better. On mobile devices it must be a pain. So instead people now make long lines without using enter. That make things hard to read. But better then then the double linebreak. And shift+enter not seems to work correct, that makes it harder. It bad implementation someone did someday. And now people think it's good. nope..

I know staroffice, that i have used to.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Richardus Raymaker

[Rhonda Huntress]

7 minutes ago, Richardus Raymaker said:

in this time add enter + extra linefeed is weird.

I disagree.

[Lillith Hapmouche]

20 minutes ago, Richardus Raymaker said:

So instead people now make long lines without using enter. 

I have a certain feeling that a good deal of those posters are sophisticated enough to even know the difference.

20 minutes ago, Richardus Raymaker said:

But better then then the double linebreak.

Disagreed.

[Tari Landar]

6 hours ago, Richardus Raymaker said:

We never will fit true the same door. in this time add enter + extra linefeed is weird. and it makes reading for sure not better. 

I know staroffice, that i have used to.

You must have absolutely zero visual impairments, congratulations, but, ftr, those without visual impairments of any sort(including minor) are the minority, which is why things are often(though not often enough) adapted in methods that are more inclusive rather than exclusive. There are reasons why people can't stand walls of text without proper line breaking-because it looks like crap, is difficult to follow, and can often make deciphering the thoughts of those whose language skills are lacking beyond difficult. The extra space helps to give pause, give the audience time to understand what was said, or ponder it. There is a reason it is WIDELY accepted by many, versus your own individual preferred method, lol.  

The extra space is, indeed, easier to read. White space is necessary, whether you desire to have it or not, lol. It's not only visually preferable for those with any impairment of any sort, but it is actually preferable from a design standpoint(hence why it is utilized, and even often required in all academic environments). 

Edited May 30, 2018 by Tari Landar

[Rhonda Huntress]

6 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

it is actually preferable from a design standpoint(hence why it is utilized, and even often required in all academic environments). 

If only they can make a period be automatically followed by a double space now.

[Tari Landar]

Just now, Rhonda Huntress said:

If only they can make a period be automatically followed by a double space now.

I agree, it would be absolutely lovely if programs did this by default. 

[LittleMe Jewell]

27 minutes ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

If only they can make a period be automatically followed by a double space now.

They keep telling me the double space after a period is the old way and that these days it should only be one.  Personally, I think whoever decided that is just lazy in their typing.

[Tari Landar]

4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

They keep telling me the double space after a period is the old way and that these days it should only be one.  Personally, I think whoever decided that is just lazy in their typing.

Most of my instructors take a "pick one and stick with it" stance, because there are so many that seem split on which way ought to be proper these days.  I was taught double spacing after a sentence, so I stick with it (minus the occasional flub, of course), at least in all of my courses.  Double spacing between lines/paragraphs(depending on circumstance), however, is non-negotiable, in all academic and even work environments I have seen. 

[Richardus Raymaker]

5 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

You must have absolutely zero visual impairments,

Wish that where true. You not want to know how many problems you get with larger font settings or higher dpi. And software that ignores it or not handle it correct

 

So in simple way. If this forum would get some configuration option, Where people could say if the forum need to add extra linefeed or not automatic solves all the problems i think. And then let then enter work just like it worked on typewriter and old computers. Just to the next line.

I feel now forced to not use the enter to keep readability better. While other people want lot's of extra white space between every line.

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by Richardus Raymaker

[Theresa Tennyson]

15 hours ago, Richardus Raymaker said:

We never will fit true the same door. in this time add enter + extra linefeed is weird. and it makes reading for sure not better. On mobile devices it must be a pain. So instead people now make long lines without using enter. That make things hard to read. But better then then the double linebreak. And shift+enter not seems to work correct, that makes it harder. It bad implementation someone did someday. And now people think it's good. nope..

I know staroffice, that i have used to.

There are two very different typesetting patterns that are commonly used.

One is the system used for most books and written reports, which uses indented paragraph starts, line spacing of 1 1/2 or 2, and no empty line between paragraphs. The indentation makes paragraph starts clear enough and the wider spacing makes reading a bit more comfortable, but it tends to make a written work take up more paper or screen space.

The other is the system typically used for business correspondence and web sites, which uses non-indented paragraphs, line spacing of 1 and an empty space between paragraphs. The single spacing and lack of indentation allows the overall writing to take up less space and therefore be a more efficient use of paper/screen space; the added line space is necessary to show where a paragraph ends and a new one begins. This is the format this forum and almost all text-heavy web content uses.

Removing the extra line feed without adding automatic indenting and wider line-spacing will produce walls of texts; adding the wider spacing and indents will make the amount of space/scrolling greatly increase.

So: Don't expect it to change. Sorry.

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by Theresa Tennyson

[Coby Foden]

16 hours ago, Richardus Raymaker said:

We never will fit true the same door. in this time add enter + extra linefeed is weird. and it makes reading for sure not better. On mobile devices it must be a pain. So instead people now make long lines without using enter. That make things hard to read. But better then then the double linebreak. And shift+enter not seems to work correct, that makes it harder. It bad implementation someone did someday. And now people think it's good. nope..

I know staroffice, that i have used to.

 

1 hour ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

There are two very different typesetting patterns that are commonly used.

One is the system used for most books and written reports, which uses indented paragraph starts, line spacing of 1 1/2 or 2, and no empty line between paragraphs. The indentation makes paragraph starts clear enough and the wider spacing makes reading a bit more comfortable, but it tends to make a written work take up more paper or screen space.

The other is the system typically used for business correspondence and web sites, which uses non-indented paragraphs, line spacing of 1 and an empty space between paragraphs. The single spacing and lack of indentation allows the overall writing to take up less space and therefore be a more efficient use of paper/screen space; the added line space is necessary to show where a paragraph ends and a new one begins. This is the format this forum and almost all text-heavy web content uses.

Removing the extra line feed without adding automatic indenting and wider line-spacing will produce walls of texts; adding the wider spacing and indents will make the amount of space/scrolling greatly increase.

So: Don't expect it to change. Sorry.

Let's see how Theresa's text above would look in the way (as I suspect) Richardus would prefer to see it - "for easy reading":
- - - Quoting and changing - - -
There are two very different typesetting patterns that are commonly used.
One is the system used for most books and written reports, which uses indented paragraph starts, line spacing of 1 1/2 or 2, and no empty line between paragraphs. The indentation makes paragraph starts clear enough and the wider spacing makes reading a bit more comfortable, but it tends to make a written work take up more paper or screen space.
The other is the system typically used for business correspondence and web sites, which uses non-indented paragraphs, line spacing of 1 and an empty space between paragraphs. The single spacing and lack of indentation allows the overall writing to take up less space and therefore be a more efficient use of paper/screen space; the added line space is necessary to show where a paragraph ends and a new one begins. This is the format this forum and almost all text-heavy web content uses.
Removing the extra line feed without adding automatic indenting and wider line-spacing will produce walls of texts; adding the wider spacing and indents will make the amount of space/scrolling greatly increase.
So: Don't expect it to change. Sorry.
- - - End of quoting and changing - - -

Seriously Richardus, how could that be better for reading? 
To my eyes that looks like wall of text and hard to read - just because there is no space between paragraphs.
The more text there is, the harder it will be to read.

PS. Ancient Greek was written even without any spaces between words.
Maybeyouwouldlikethatstyletoowhatdoyouthink?

[Tari Landar]

9 hours ago, Richardus Raymaker said:

Wish that where true. You not want to know how many problems you get with larger font settings or higher dpi. And software that ignores it or not handle it correct

 

I know all about problems with larger fonts and making things readable/usable . 

You're barking up the wrong tree on that one, I'm not even going to delve into my work with not only legal compliance, but also simply the functionality as it pertains to those with visual impairments.  I am legally blind, and have been my entire life, quickly moving towards being completely blind.  I'm the last person you want to discuss readability with, I'm wiling to bet, it'll just be a pissing match and I have pretty damn good aim  

 

 

[Richardus Raymaker]

17 hours ago, Coby Foden said:

Let's see how Theresa's text above would look in the way (as I suspect) Richardus would prefer to see it - "for easy reading":

No, for me it would look like this on the forum if i would use the enter how you normal use it. To get to the next line. It looks terrible because jt automatic add extra unwanted blank line. i can add that myself by press enter again.

 

- - - Quoting and changing - - -
There are two very different typesetting patterns that are commonly used.

One is the system used for most books and written reports, which uses indented paragraph starts, line spacing of 1 1/2 or 2, and no empty line between paragraphs.

The indentation makes paragraph starts clear enough and the wider spacing makes reading a bit more comfortable, but it tends to make a written work take up more paper or screen space.

The other is the system typically used for business correspondence and web sites,

which uses non-indented paragraphs, line spacing of 1 and an empty space between paragraphs.

The single spacing and lack of indentation allows the overall writing to take up less

space and therefore be a more efficient use of paper/screen space; the added line space

is necessary to show where a paragraph ends and a new one begins. This is the format this forum and almost all text-heavy web content uses.

 

---and now how i like to have it, hope it works. my screen is mabye not width enough for the right view. i did edit in notepad++ ---

There are two very different typesetting patterns that are commonly used.

One is the system used for most books and written reports,
which uses indented paragraph starts, line spacing of 1 1/2 or 2,
and no empty line between paragraphs.

The indentation makes paragraph starts clear enough and the wider spacing makes reading a
bit more comfortable, but it tends to make a written work take up more paper or screen space.
The other is the system typically used for business correspondence and web sites,
which uses non-indented paragraphs, line spacing of 1 and an empty space between paragraphs.

The single spacing and lack of indentation allows the overall
writing to take up less space and therefore be a more efficient use of paper/screen space; the added line space is necessary to show where a paragraph ends and a new one begins.
This is the format this forum and almost all text-heavy web content uses.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Richardus Raymaker

[Richardus Raymaker]

It's the opposite i like to create sections. but cannot do it. I get the extra linefeed. So the solution is to avoid the enter key and CREATE a wall of text. While when enter would work correct you can do the text  layout better. So people that want a shift+enter for a normal next line. Instead of enter.

 

The are saying, create a wall of text. Because enter is not working correct.

[Tari Landar]

Uhhh, no

That extra white space is GOOD, not bad, mmmkay? 

I have no idea why someone would pitch such a fit over something so trivial that exists everywhere, lol. Personally, I LIKE being able to read what people have to say. Whodathunkit? 

[Theresa Tennyson]

3 hours ago, Richardus Raymaker said:

No, for me it would look like this on the forum if i would use the enter how you normal use it. To get to the next line. It looks terrible because jt automatic add extra unwanted blank line. i can add that myself by press enter again.

 

- - - Quoting and changing - - -
There are two very different typesetting patterns that are commonly used.

One is the system used for most books and written reports, which uses indented paragraph starts, line spacing of 1 1/2 or 2, and no empty line between paragraphs.

The indentation makes paragraph starts clear enough and the wider spacing makes reading a bit more comfortable, but it tends to make a written work take up more paper or screen space.

The other is the system typically used for business correspondence and web sites,

which uses non-indented paragraphs, line spacing of 1 and an empty space between paragraphs.

The single spacing and lack of indentation allows the overall writing to take up less

space and therefore be a more efficient use of paper/screen space; the added line space

is necessary to show where a paragraph ends and a new one begins. This is the format this forum and almost all text-heavy web content uses.

 

---and now how i like to have it, hope it works. my screen is mabye not width enough for the right view. i did edit in notepad++ ---

There are two very different typesetting patterns that are commonly used.

One is the system used for most books and written reports,
which uses indented paragraph starts, line spacing of 1 1/2 or 2,
and no empty line between paragraphs.

The indentation makes paragraph starts clear enough and the wider spacing makes reading a
bit more comfortable, but it tends to make a written work take up more paper or screen space.
The other is the system typically used for business correspondence and web sites,
which uses non-indented paragraphs, line spacing of 1 and an empty space between paragraphs.

The single spacing and lack of indentation allows the overall
writing to take up less space and therefore be a more efficient use of paper/screen space; the added line space is necessary to show where a paragraph ends and a new one begins.
This is the format this forum and almost all text-heavy web content uses.

This is what your "correct" format looks like on my screen -- I honestly have no idea how you're doing your typing, but it sure looks like you're doing something different from literally everyone else in the world. Do you hit "return" after every sentence? Do you not use word-wrap and return at the margin? I learned to type on a manual typewriter that you had to whack the carriage return lever after every line but I don't do that.

 

 

Edited May 31, 2018 by Theresa Tennyson

[Madelaine McMasters]

When I read the OP, I understood Richard's reference to "onscreen keyboard" to mean that he was typing on a tablet, either Android or iOS. Neither of those systems provide any way to type "shift+enter". For that reason, I can't create bullet lists in the forum using my iPhone or iPad, nor can I write Haiku or other poetry without double spacing, unless I paste the key sequence from a note or type "sr" and let the spell checker fix it. It now appears that Richard's complaint doesn't actually stem from that limitation.

Regarding Rhonda's suggestion about the automatic insertion of two spaces after a period, that would mess up attempts to write decimal numbers. How about adding a space whenever a period is followed by a space? iOS gets halfway to a solution by replacing two consecutive spaces typed in rapid succession with a period and a space. There could be a system setting to make that a period and two spaces, but the world is converging on a single space to break lines. On virtual keyboards, there's virtue in reducing the need to move your fingers (thumbs in particular), hence Apple's method for terminating lines with two spaces.

I don't understand why neither Apple nor Google support accepting a tap on the shift key followed by a tap on the return key as "shift+enter". Plenty of people have complained about that over the years.

[Solar Legion]

On 5/31/2018 at 9:46 AM, Madelaine McMasters said:

When I read the OP, I understood Richard's reference to "onscreen keyboard" to mean that he was typing on a tablet, either Android or iOS. Neither of those systems provide any way to type "shift+enter". For that reason, I can't create bullet lists in the forum using my iPhone or iPad, nor can I write Haiku or other poetry without double spacing, unless I paste the key sequence from a note or type "sr" and let the spell checker fix it. It now appears that Richard's complaint doesn't actually stem from that limitation.

Regarding Rhonda's suggestion about the automatic insertion of two spaces after a period, that would mess up attempts to write decimal numbers. How about adding a space whenever a period is followed by a space? iOS gets halfway to a solution by replacing two consecutive spaces typed in rapid succession with a period and a space. There could be a system setting to make that a period and two spaces, but the world is converging on a single space to break lines. On virtual keyboards, there's virtue in reducing the need to move your fingers (thumbs in particular), hence Apple's method for terminating lines with two spaces.

I don't understand why neither Apple nor Google support accepting a tap on the shift key followed by a tap on the return key as "shift+enter". Plenty of people have complained about that over the years.

Android: Hacker's Keyboard. Problem solved.

No idea about iOS.