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So the bake on mesh could mean a return of all the system clothes with prim/sculpt parts?

Bare Rose has anything and everything I can imagine on their pre-mesh vendors. They still sell it? We will not get rigging and movement, but you don't really need rigged cuffs and cravats. Sadly it is harder to go back to sculpted parts for back/bottom of jackets and such.

 

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I'm writing this post, not simply to whine and complain, but because I believe the arguments I've heard as to why creators don't think it's economically viable to sink time and effort into a minority

Or how about the Balmain F/W 2018 collection? Not a sweatpant in sight.

And from a blog post that I wrote today:

Posted Images

This is my pain right now. I bought a Signature Geralt at the last sale, then I searched the MP. I swear to gods, it's nothing but T-shirts and board shorts as far as the eye can see. I'm hoping it's because of how new the body is, but I'm holding off on wearing it for awhile (that and I seem to crash more often when I wear it).

At least there's enough out there that a guy can get away with just mesh head, hands, and sometimes feet. It feels like the system female body is effectively extinct these days. And it don't help that there's one ladybody dominating the market right now.

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22 minutes ago, Magnek Fang said:

This is my pain right now. I bought a Signature Geralt at the last sale, then I searched the MP

the new bodies have mostly some supply of new clothes at events, it will take some time before those are in the mainstores and MP.

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29 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

So the bake on mesh could mean a return of all the system clothes with prim/sculpt parts?

Bare Rose has anything and everything I can imagine on their pre-mesh vendors. They still sell it? We will not get rigging and movement, but you don't really need rigged cuffs and cravats. Sadly it is harder to go back to sculpted parts for back/bottom of jackets and such.

It's true, with bake on mesh some old outfits will 'work' again - but prim/sculpty clothing was abandoned for mesh for a reason, it may have looked good back in the days, but it won't stand up to today's standards. Perhaps with system layers more people will get into it and make mesh components rather than prim/sculpty components of the past, we'll see.

1 minute ago, norajulian said:

If it means anything, Orwar, all these new mesh bodies and pretty skins have these shorts-clad menfolk showing off some yummy looking calves. 

If there's one thing I can console myself with when it comes to my appearance, it's that my calves look better than my avi's. =P

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I have yet to even make a male avatar, so any freebies I pick up for men get dumped into a folder labeled 'Men's Clothes' with the plan to someday make a boy to dress in them.  But I have noticed that the sharp divide between normal human SL and furry/anime SL is even more distinct in mens' fashion than in womens.  The Krankhaus Kuroo body might not be what you're looking for but the clothes for it look okay.  Some creators will make items fitted in both Kuroo and Kemono sizes, and the Kemono market is pretty big, so the potential is there for more clothing options if the Kuroo clothing creators see an increase in sales.  The downside is that it's not a fitted body so you can't make it buff.

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Most of this situation (lack of clothing and incompatibility of clothes between mesh bodies) could have been prevented if Linden Lab had upgraded the default body to be as good as the mesh bodies are.

The situation will turn even worse when there will be more and more new mesh bodies and mesh heads - again incompatible with anything else.
This is a bad path leading to chaos in avatar accessories. :(
Linden Lab wake up. It's never too late to turn the boat for better course.

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7 minutes ago, Coby Foden said:

Most of this situation (lack of clothing and incompatibility of clothes between mesh bodies) could have been prevented if Linden Lab had upgraded the default body to be as good as the mesh bodies are.

The situation will turn even worse when there will be more and more new mesh bodies and mesh heads - again incompatible with anything else.
This is a bad path leading to chaos in avatar accessories. :(
Linden Lab wake up. It's never too late to turn the boat for better course.

Yeah but It's not like the lab is gonna forbid people from creating new mesh bodies. People see what some creators demand for their mesh bodies, like back in the days of photorealistic system skins, and they are like: "I want a piece of that juicy pie too and too bad if i'm contributing to SL's compatibility issues, I'm not living in there, just plundering it."

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IF I were to make clothes (and that is SO not going to happen) I agree that menswear needs some more advocates. That section of the pie is likely not a big money maker, but still I know that guy stuff is in short supply and choices are limited. 

One thing that occurred to me when reading some of the earlier comments about full perm mesh for guys and such is that it "appears" like there are one or two VERY TALENTED "ghost" designers behind a lot of the lady's brands.  Some brands use a variety of creators for their mesh products (that is the owner of the brand doesn't do mesh but farms out the designs they want). OTHERS though have outfits that are very close to one another.

I probably notice this more as I am in events and blog and make mesh LOL. But it certainly seems like there are some creators that are doing a whopping business. And they do a GREAT job! The downside is that there are a lot of very nice clothes that are derivatives of one another.  Eventually it gets boring. 

So all the guys really need are one or two full perm (or for hire) creators that are willing to do guy stuff. THAT would make a huge difference in what is available. 

Full perm is hard. You take big chances along the way trusting in folks (sometimes when that doesn't work out so well). So I can see the reasoning behind NOT doing full perm menswear. BUT hopefully and eventually someone will decide to do work for hire for some of the brands that could use that service. 

Happily I am a gal and although I have a guy body or two I only don them for blog posts :D.

Still, I DO GET IT!!!!  So hard for guys. 

 

 

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I think it's truly just because they don't like to make male clothing. Even in other creative fields I know that the feminine style of things are very so much more preferred. I know plenty of successful artist who never painted/drew a male in their lives. It's their choice, but they are literally throwing away money not touching a market that is undersaturated. I draw, and I design (UI/UX/Web/Logos/Branding) but I have never touched 3d modeling, it's definitely something I would like to get into in the near future. 

I did notice that before mesh was popular that the more sophisticated style of dressing for males was a lot more popular than today. 

Then, there is the stigma that men in second life aren't that interested in fashion or investing much money into fashion. Hell, men in real life have that stigma attached to them. Designers just don't explore markets that seem unprofitable. We like clichés. But there are no cliché's for men's fashion on secondlife.

I even logged back into IMVU to compare the two men's fashion departments.

It seems that most of the sophistication disappeared from Imvu's catalog as well as they pander to younger generations. I see Gucci, Off-white, skinny jeans, and really nothing else. Young people love hype-beast fashion. However, in second life I realized the men here are much more mature, and then I also realized I have no Idea what the average mature man actually likes to wear. It seems that with age, most men have little concern for what they wear as long as it is clean.

Just my insight, it may be very well hard for fashion-savvy men here, but twice as hard for designers.

 

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In my humble opinion designing for men is very difficult because the context of what is acceptable for them to wear in public is a lot narrower than with women who culturally are somewhat expected to "tease the eye and flatter the senses", at least that's how it feels for me.

I've been asked a lot to make male  specific products but it's very difficult for me to wrap my head around menswear, I just don't think I have it in me really.

3 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

it "appears" like there are one or two VERY TALENTED "ghost" designers behind a lot of the lady's brands.

There is also a lot of Marvelous Designer users, and people who shop at asset stores, it's one thing prims had back in the days, you where sure that the item was produced in SL, for SL, by SL users.

If content wasn't made with SecondLife in mind, as good as it will look it's still bad content that makes the secondlife experience worse for everyone.

But hey that's nothing new in real life, craftmanship is routinely wrecked by superior marketing. As long as the shop pictures will look amazing, everything is fine right?

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15 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

So the bake on mesh could mean a return of all the system clothes with prim/sculpt parts?

Bare Rose has anything and everything I can imagine on their pre-mesh vendors. They still sell it? We will not get rigging and movement, but you don't really need rigged cuffs and cravats. Sadly it is harder to go back to sculpted parts for back/bottom of jackets and such.

 

Yes, Bare Rose still has all their old system + sculpt stuff in the store (though not on the MP)

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33 minutes ago, Matty Luminos said:

Yes, Bare Rose still has all their old system + sculpt stuff in the store (though not on the MP)

It's a shame they haven't really caught up with the mesh stuff, and everything I have tried of their newer stuff has put my avatar complexity through the roof.

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21 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:
On 27/05/2018 at 12:30 AM, Skell Dagger said:

Stealthic, Vango, and VoltHair and find great hair that's not laggy or female hair sized up for guys

I'm genuinely sorry to disagree, but at least Vango is notorious for adding the drawing weight of a full blown outfit just by wearing one of their styles. For my liking, there is no justification for that in their style and quality.

Yes. "Quality" is not an attribute earned by these three. They sell NO-MOD hair. Can you imagine?

HAIR that's NO-MOD.

No possible excuse exists for no-mod hair. Those creators are just being willfully customer-hostile, foisting clumsy scripted menu controls absurdly unfit to purpose. No-mod permissions are generally a burden, but for hair it's pure torture. There's a reason the Build Tool operates in the viewer 99% of the time before that lag-inducing round-trip to the server.

Creators of no-mod hair, male or female, simply should go away. That special kind of stupid is just not needed in Second Life.

(Also, yes, laggy. Another one of these creators is notorious for a particularly dopey mesh-swapping gimmick that adds at least twice the visible complexity and extra script weight. So special.)

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Trying to be positive about it, I've discovered a couple particularly good (IMHO) creators of modifiable men's hair: Lock&Tuft and Taketomi. I'm not sure either of them have a wide selection, but because the products are modifiable, I've been able to make from a single product a variety of very personalized custom versions for myself.

I'm sure there are many other mod-perm hair creators, so maybe we should make a list of responsible sources. All the large creators used to be exclusively mod-perm, in fact, but I've noticed at least one (Dura) introduce a no-mod line now, which is just sad.

Something needs to reverse this stupidity before it gets out of hand.

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7 hours ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

It's a shame they haven't really caught up with the mesh stuff, and everything I have tried of their newer stuff has put my avatar complexity through the roof.

They have quite a bit of mesh outfits now.. both male and female. The problem is they are made for a femboi shape not any specific mesh bodies. I have slink, Aesthetic, Jake, Psi-corp, and a few others and they all need serious alphaing to work. Kind of pointless to wear a mesh body if you have to alpha 90% of it. 

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5 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

... Lock&Tuft and Taketomi. I'm not sure either of them have a wide selection,

Lock & Tuft is quite new on the market, I believe. They sometimes participate in the Fifty Lindens Friday sale round. Their style might not be everyone's choice, but well.

Taketomi is / is related to Burley, another brand. I wasn't actually aware that their styles are full mod, either an oversight on my behalf or they did sell no mod items before. Plus, the creator gained a reputation among the drama mongers because of a "Hitlerjugend" style cut.

Plus, both are unisex.

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This is kinda related to the topic, in that suppliers of quality menswear are hard to come by: sadly**, Kauna is closing down and all prices have been set to L$0.

I've just been to pick some things up for an alt - it's mostly formal/ traditional wear, but with enough variety/ huge range of colours and accessories to put together some unique/ stylish outfits. Also, no brand-rigged items* but it is all mesh (and reputed to be good quality).

Creator's Flickr

User Group Flickr

Inworld store.

 

*Correction: I've come across at least some Slink & TMP versions while unpacking so far.

**Having unpacked a few items, the closing of Kuana is a real loss to the man-persons of SL. Everything is so thoughtfully packaged and well made - creator Ross Myhre is clearly a talented and hardworking business owner, and I sincerely hope he isn't leaving SL for good.

Edited by LexxiXhan
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2 hours ago, LexxiXhan said:

This is kinda related to the topic, in that suppliers of quality menswear are hard to come by: sadly, Kauna is closing down and all prices have been set to L$0.

I've just been to pick some things up for an alt - it's mostly formal/ traditional wear, but with enough variety/ huge range of colours and accessories to put together some unique/ stylish outfits. Also, no brand-rigged items but it is all mesh (and reputed to be good quality).

Creator's Flickr

User Group Flickr

Inworld store.

Thanks!!! I just took my (my sons) avie and he now has more than one outfit!! lol!

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5 hours ago, LexxiXhan said:

This is kinda related to the topic, in that suppliers of quality menswear are hard to come by: sadly**, Kauna is closing down and all prices have been set to L$0.

I've just been to pick some things up for an alt - it's mostly formal/ traditional wear, but with enough variety/ huge range of colours and accessories to put together some unique/ stylish outfits. Also, no brand-rigged items* but it is all mesh (and reputed to be good quality).

Creator's Flickr
User Group Flickr
Inworld store
.

I went there and grabbed this "Military Retro Jacket Female (XS)". It comes in standard avatar XS size only. However I'm wearing it on Maitreya body and it works great.
Beautiful jacket. It has also a HUD to colour some parts of the jacket.

2018-05-28_Military-jacket.thumb.jpg.c42547113e2145fda7b262d66eb8dba2.jpg

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36 minutes ago, Coby Foden said:

I went there and grabbed this "Military Retro Jacket Female"

I'm looking forward to trying that one with a few outfits myself <3

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