Orwar Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 I'm writing this post, not simply to whine and complain, but because I believe the arguments I've heard as to why creators don't think it's economically viable to sink time and effort into a minority of the community can easily be countered. I do not have the means to personally, directly change the situation - I'm not a skilled mesh designer, nor do I have the time it would require for me to train myself to that point. But if I did have the time, or indeed the skills in hand, there wouldn't be a moment of doubt which part of the market I'd try to tap - and not only because it would give myself more variety in my apparel. Six days ago I created an alt, because doing photography of your avatar when there are so few options that meet my aesthetic preferences and quality requirements simply gets old. I was kindly guided by some friends to various events and stores which offered a large quantity of clothes, hairs and accessories - for free - and after having hoarded it all and gone back home to purge it, that alt's wardrobe certainly had the numerical means to stand off against my main's. Soon thereafter I thought to myself that I'd like to at least play around with creating clothes, and since I already know how to navigate a photo editing program since I've been playing around with photography for a while now, I bought some full perm clothes and started playing around with it. When I looked at full perm clothing which suits my mesh body - which from I hear is the 'most popular mesh body for men' (Signature Gianni) - I could hardly find anything but tank tops, T-shirts, boxers and shorts. But if I changed the search to the most popular female mesh body, which I'd bought for my alt, well, there's page after page after page with dresses, lingerie, tops, trousers, shoes, period clothing, fetish apparel. Everything one could think of, and then some more. I doubt any of what I've said so far is news to anyone who has ever set foot on the marketplace. A search for 'Signature', with copy permissions ticked, says there are 21,134 items listed as men's clothing. For 'Maitreya' the result is 447,293. Sure, I guess much of that is, just like the products I've listed in that category, re-textured full perm clothing - but there's 21 times as many hits. So, the most common argument I've heard as to why creators don't bother making menswear is that the market is much smaller - and I'll admit I believe that to be true - but that should also mean that you're up against a stiffer competition, no? Put X amount of hours into creating a decent quality piece of apparel for women and you'll have to try to draw attention to that one item among the 447,293 items already out there, where a search sorted by 'newest' is flooded within hours by dozens of new items. Put X amount of hours into creating a decent quality piece of apparel for men and your item only has 21,134 items to stick out from - and the rate of new stuff being added won't be anywhere near as prominent. But men aren't as interested in buying stuff, they don't want to put anyΒ L$ into their appearance. Frankly, most of them don't appear to care what they look like. Over the past few days when I've been out and about, the majority of male avatars that I have seen are system avatars, many of them are still wearing full-bright bling as if it was 2010. But, the same guys have no trouble tossing hundreds of L$ at girls on dance poles - it could be that most men really, really don't care. If you can grab someone's attention by throwing some money at them, it doesn't matter what you look like, right? Of course - and this is not me calling myself pretty - but if I step into an average club, the IMs start to hail; I don't need to throw a single L$ at anyone to receive everything from compliments to lewd suggestions to people trying to tackle something they read in my profile to show interest in me. I don't think men in SL are afraid to spend L$, I think many of them simply do not see the point of going mesh because the 'I'll just look like everyone else' argument actually holds some validity in our case - there are only a handful of brands that create quality menswear, and once we've all plundered their stocks, wherever we go we'll see other guys wearing the exact same thing as we do.Β The shopping events for men don't help all that much - and don't get me wrong, I applaud the sentiment, but every event is basically the same as the other; mostly there's tattoos and poses, most of which are unisex, then there's T-shirts and tank tops, board shorts and swimwear, the most original items on most events are either fetish wear or just tight clothes that show off ridiculous genitalia shapes through them. And on occasion, there's an item or two (I actually bought -three- items at one event recently, which is a new personal record) items of moderate to genuine interest.Β I probably sound ridiculously picky - but if I had known what I know today, a year after getting my first mesh body, and I was still using a system body - would I invest in a mesh body, knowing how poor the diversity is, or would I stick to a system body and prim/sculpty/flexiprim/layer clothing? Probably not, I was quite happy with my wardrobe, and if it hadn't been for a picky ex who didn't mind that I didn't have much to wear I would probably still be rocking my old self, mohawk and all. /rant 10 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catrie Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 I agree with you.Β I go to a lot of shopping events and have noticed that men don't have a lot of options.Β There may be 10 mens' vendors, but half of them are different types of tank tops,Β 2 might be tattoos,Β 2 are board shorts and 1 is underwear.Β I'd LOVE to see guys in something OTHER than these items.Β I'd love to see men have even half of the variety that women do, clothing wise.Β I was talking to a friend earlier and he mentioned that out of the last 4 pictures he'd done, he was wearing the same outfit in all of them.Β I told him that it's not like he has a lot of choices.Β I sometimes change my outfit 4-5 times a day.Β I have 302 outfits saved and most of them I've worn once, and I STILL wear something different daily.Β Β I would love to see a consortium of mens' designers come up with some stylish clothes that fit more than the "bro" aesthetic.Β I'd like to see more suits, in general.Β I'd also like to see more Victorian, Edwardian, Gothic, Steampunk items for men, as that's what I like personally for guys. lolΒ Β They can't say that guys don't buy that stuff, when it's not available for purchase.Β Give them the option for it. Have the items shown at the many shopping events.Β What's that saying " If you build it, they will come"?Β This may seem like a niche group,but it's one that is sadly not being catered to.Β Hell, men in general, if they have a clothing preference other than tank tops and board shorts, are not being catered to.Β Menswear needs to be expanded, greatly, to give them more choices.Β I'd love to see it and would more than likely buy some of it for friends, if it of good quality and something I thought they would want to wear.Β Β Β Β 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skell Dagger Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 And from a blog post that I wrote today: 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skell Dagger Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Hey, designers! Need some inspiration? I've got some right here for you, from Rebels Market. How about starting with some of these? Plenty more where that came from... 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skell Dagger Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Or how about the Balmain F/W 2018 collection? Not a sweatpant in sight. 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Meriman Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 If people were to make such lovely things, I would buy all of those at least 2 times each, possibly more. (3 geralt altsΒ now and they all need stylish clothing!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 I'd love to see more professional, modern style clothes. Shirts that are tucked in, cargo pants that fit/aren't baggy, casual business attire. Right now there's none of that in SL. It's t-shirt and jeans or full suit, no middle. Men in SL aren't bald and shirtless because they think it looks good, it's because they can't find a shirt worth wearing. I have no hair, because men's hair is all laggy or "unisex" (made for women but scaled up). Β The argument that men don't buy anything is circular, because there's nothing to buy. Β Β 20 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said: Hey, designers! Need some inspiration? I've got some right here for you, from Rebels Market. How about starting with some of these? Plenty more where that came from... Β 16 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said: Or how about the Balmain F/W 2018 collection? Not a sweatpant in sight. Not gonna lie, I wouldn't buy anything in any of those pictures. I'm pretty sure I even saw a woman's dress in there. I suspect if a creator created some of it for men though, it'd sell, just due to the fact that there's nothing else to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Orwar said: I probably sound ridiculously picky - but if I had known what I know today, a year after getting my first mesh body, and I was still using a system body - would I invest in a mesh body, knowing how poor the diversity is, or would I stick to a system body and prim/sculpty/flexiprim/layer clothing? Probably not, I was quite happy with my wardrobe, and if it hadn't been for a picky ex who didn't mind that I didn't have much to wear I would probably still be rocking my old self, mohawk and all. Also, I can echo this sentiment. I was pressured into getting a mesh body as well. I was still wearing a system one up until very recently, due to lack of options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skell Dagger Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Gadget Portal said: Not gonna lie, I wouldn't buy anything in any of those pictures. It's great how we're all different and we all have different tastes, though, isn't it? I can go to Cold Ash, Ascend, ::K::, and Kalback and find great shirts, fitted pants, and business casual. I can go to Stealthic, Vango, and VoltHair and find great hair that's not laggy or female hair sized up for guys. What I'm looking for is the kind of thing in the pictures I posted, and what you're looking for is entirely different. What you're looking for does exist out there, albeit in small doses. What I'm looking for doesn't exist at all. Not in non-clothing-layer-n-flexiprims anyway... Edited May 27, 2018 by Skell Dagger 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said: It's great how we're all different and we all have different tastes, though, isn't it? I can go to Cold Ash and Ascend and find great shirts, fitted pants, and business casual. I can go to Stealthic, Vango, and VoltHair and find great hair that's not laggy or female hair sized up for guys. What I'm looking for is the kind of thing in the pictures I posted, and what you're looking for is entirely different. What you're looking for does exist out there, albeit in small doses. What I'm looking for doesn't exist at all. Not in non-clothing-layer-n-flexiprims anyway... Small doses is right. There's maybe 2 shirts in all of SL that fit that description.Β Unless you count Cold Ash selling the same one 15 times for each color... That one crappy store sells stuff like your pictures, though. So there's that, I guess? Either way, we can agree that SL isn't made for men. Edited May 27, 2018 by Gadget Portal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skell Dagger Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, Gadget Portal said: That one crappy store sells stuff like your pictures, though. So there's that, I guess? Do you see me slagging off the kind of clothing you want to wear? I'll leave you and Orwar to it here. Clearly I don't belong in a thread about male fashion. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Skell Dagger said: Β Clearly I don't belong in a thread about male fashion. /me grabs his belt and pulls him back 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementia Obviate Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Skell Dagger said: Do you see me slagging off the kind of clothing you want to wear? I'll leave you and Orwar to it here. Clearly I don't belong in a thread about male fashion. For the record, I love your sense of style. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Nova Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 If I had a man I wouldn't let him wear clothes..... 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy Evanier Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 23 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said: /me grabs his belt and pulls him back /me helps.Β IMHOΒ Skell is the first person who belongs in a thread about male fashionΒ Β 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syo Emerald Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 I'm thinking about making a male alt and agree, they need more clothing options. On the other hand, thats going to to be beneficial to the price of getting that alt started... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephanie Misfit Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Nobody here has tried Gabriel? My male alt has a very pale skin, almost gothic look and I get most of his stuff there. There is definitely a lot more there than boardshorts and tank tops. Suits, gothic looking stuff, there was even a vintage / Victorian looking suitΒ at one stage. Some of it is in gachas but you can just search for what you want on the marketplace if you don't want to play them. Shi has some unconventional stuff for men as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 18 minutes ago, Stephanie Misfit said: Nobody here has tried Gabriel? My male alt has a very pale skin, almost gothic look and I get most of his stuff there. There is definitely a lot more there than boardshorts and tank tops. Suits, gothic looking stuff, there was even a vintage / Victorian looking suitΒ at one stage. Some of it is in gachas but you can just search for what you want on the marketplace if you don't want to play them. Shi has some unconventional stuff for men as well. /me whispers... gabriel has lot of transfer clothes... in special very usefull when your alt has another body.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 23 minutes ago, Stephanie Misfit said: Nobody here has tried Gabriel? My male alt has a very pale skin, almost gothic look and I get most of his stuff there. There is definitely a lot more there than boardshorts and tank tops. Suits, gothic looking stuff, there was even a vintage / Victorian looking suitΒ at one stage. Some of it is in gachas but you can just search for what you want on the marketplace if you don't want to play them. Shi has some unconventional stuff for men as well. That's the crappy place I was thinking of. I couldn't remember the name. Compared to the others, it's not good at all. I wouldn't seriously send anyone there. Not even easily offended people.Β Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwar Posted May 27, 2018 Author Share Posted May 27, 2018 5 hours ago, Skell Dagger said: Do you see me slagging off the kind of clothing you want to wear? I'll leave you and Orwar to it here. Clearly I don't belong in a thread about male fashion. Personally, I'd wear 90% of those clothes - I'd kill to see that kind of fashion on the grid. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeny Howlett Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 6 hours ago, Skell Dagger said: Hey, designers! Need some inspiration? I've got some right here for you, from Rebels Market. How about starting with some of these? Plenty more where that came from... I would make a male alt just for this ! 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillith Hapmouche Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 The irony is that we used to have such choices like the pictured ones way before mesh hit the clothing industry. Just thinking of AVid and their couture... or even simple, everyday casual stuff like DoppelgΓ€nger and Cold Logic or more military themed items like Deco.Β Or hard to fit, but none the less extravaganza pieces like Aoharu or exotic flavours by Zaara, who does have one or two mesh styles, but waaay too few choices for current male mesh bodies.Β Last, but not least,Β Bare@Rose, who resorted to a very limited mesh support with barely no demos to try. The bitterness is that the better half of the current male fashion creators have at least one or two extreme flaws in their creations... this has been brought up not too long ago in similar themed thread about shopping events. Flaws ranging from simply bad texturing to pointlessly annoying time limited demos to ill fitting rigging for just a tiny minority of all available bodies. 6 hours ago, Skell Dagger said: Stealthic, Vango, and VoltHair and find great hair that's not laggy or female hair sized up for guys I'm genuinely sorry to disagree, but at least Vango is notorious for adding the drawing weight of a full blown outfit just by wearing one of their styles. For my liking, there is no justification for that in their style and quality. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Orwar said: Personally, I'd wear 90% of those clothes - I'd kill to see that kind of fashion on the grid. To be honest, I'd kill to see more options, no matter what style, just to show that men will actually buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maitimo Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 8 hours ago, Skell Dagger said: Hey, designers! Need some inspiration? I've got some right here for you, from Rebels Market. How about starting with some of these? Plenty more where that came from... I'd wear everything from that set. Especially if there were a few more colours besides black (sorry Skell!)Β Actually the high lace-up boots in the last pic, A:S:S does boots almost exactly like that (I have two pairs, in black and red). Really nice boots too. Β 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Matty Luminos said: Especially if there were a few more colours besides black (sorry Skell!)Β He did manage to put in 2 pics with red jackets.Β Β 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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