Racism in player profiles

[Paul Hexem]

4 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Only the names are the same - one is about supremacy the other about equality - different beasts alltogether, Gadget.

Sure, I wasn't disagreeing. It is a complex issue. I was just saying...

3 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Because this issue is bigger and more complicated than satisfying your simple pedantry.

... that when you dismiss a valid point as just a minor detail, it makes you look as bad as they're saying.

Gotta be careful not to fall into that trap.

[Destiny Marques]

You people do realize that the majority of those "black bulls" and the groups associated with fetishizing them aren't really "black" at all don't you?  As much as it has been debated on this forum, I mean that should be common knowledge by now, which it apparently isn't given the comments.

Not only that, those groups and all associated with them are a point of contention within the actual black SL community, but of course, you wouldn't know about that. People choose to remain willfully ignorant of such things.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Kristen Beornssen

[Janet Voxel]

The black supremacy thing is a play on the old "Black brute" trope. There's a difference between "Wakanda Forever" and "Black Bull" stuff.

 

And you see a lot less  "Wakanda Forever" type stuff than...well anything.

Edited June 10, 2018 by janetosilio
forgot some stuff

[Destiny Marques]

How in the hell did black people even get mixed into this conversation? As I recall, the post was started by Matty asking about something racist he saw in a profile. Sigh...

[Janet Voxel]

Just now, Kristen Beornssen said:

How in the hell did black people even get mixed into this conversation? As I recall, the post was started by Matty asking about something racist he saw in a profile. Sigh...

Because somehow, someone wanted "White Pride" to be ok when, "Black Supremacy" on SL does not mean what he thinks it means.

[Destiny Marques]

4 minutes ago, janetosilio said:

Because somehow, someone wanted "White Pride" to be ok when, "Black Supremacy" on SL does not mean what he thinks it means.

"Whataboutisms" strikes again.... SMH.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Kristen Beornssen

[Theresa Tennyson]

25 minutes ago, Gadget Portal said:

Sure, I wasn't disagreeing. It is a complex issue. I was just saying...

... that when you dismiss a valid point as just a minor detail, it makes you look as bad as they're saying.

Gotta be careful not to fall into that trap.

It may also be a trap to consider it simply a matter of not being ashamed of the race of one's birth when someone quotes lines from a band formerly called Endlösung ("Final Solution") that does songs like a remake of a German World War II propaganda military song with lyrics changed to "Bomben auf Israel" -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landser_(band)

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, Gadget Portal said:

Sure, I wasn't disagreeing. It is a complex issue. I was just saying...

... that when you dismiss a valid point as just a minor detail, it makes you look as bad as they're saying.

Gotta be careful not to fall into that trap.

It's not a valid point, it's attempting to win an argument with semantics and zero respect for the subject matter at hand. If there is a trap here, you found it already.

Edited June 11, 2018 by CoffeeDujour

[Amanda Crisp]

Any discussion about race or gender in SL is destined to go sideways, as (with all things SL) people have different reasons for portraying (or “playing”) avatars that are different things.

(A) Some prefer their avatar to closely resemble their RL

(B) Some people prefer their avatar to look as they *wish* to be

(C) Some people create avatars that look provocative or just “different” because they value uniqueness, have some other agenda (political/social awareness/kewlness).

(D) Some people create “special-purpose Alts” for “adult activity” (sexplay) and very often those border on fetishistic; they look and are described in ways that evoke the adult/fetishistic response.  Very often, sexplay is politically correct because it...sexual behavior.

So all these avatars intermingle, join Sl Groups - and there is really no compulsion for a Typist to state in the avatar’s profile; “In RL I am a Caucasian Woman and home-maker....and this avatar is a powerful, dominant  *insert race of choice here* male because I am exploring that part of my sexuality and anything stated in this profile is “in character” and should not be taken as literal or an attack on any person or group”

Within the SL Roleplay community, som groups of players used to have specific guidelines about differentiating “in character” and “out of character” play/communications. - and such stuff was not conducted outside the RP setting. However, more and more one sees that sort of “Sexplay”/Fetishistic Avatar out in the wild. This causes confusion and forum threads about the impossibly “off the hook” character profiles people see :-)

Another Poster was also correct; there are people playing avatars of different races/genders/statuses who do derive gratification from “Passing” as that other demographic - and if they were to disclose their actual status they would lose their ardor for that “character”.

One possible solution would be for LL to add a profile tab where Typists can state “why they are here” (Exploring, Character Experimentation, seeking RL companion, NOT seeking RL companion,  etc) and *if* people actually read the profile, butthurt could be avoided. But then, most people who want to “pass” probably would not sell-disclose anyway :-)

No great solution there.....and this issue is really unsolvable so long as (a) SL is different things to different people and (b) some Residents try to reconcile other Residents to their RL perspectives.

Personally, I think that some things should remain private. *IF* someone’s RL lover likes to be Restrained during Adult Time (safeword in place), thats not something they usually share publicly. If someone has a fetishistic avatar that is going to push-buttons, they might wan to consider keeping their Public Profile vanilla and use the relegate SL Group to connect with likeminded people. But thats just an opinion, SL does not oblige anyone to be discreet.......

 

...and so the conversation continues :-)

 

((sorry, long post))

 

[Rhonda Huntress]

3 hours ago, Phorumities said:

I guess you don't get out much.

*shrug*

Pics or it doesn't exist.

Actually it is easy enough to prove with a link to the profile. 

Not that I believe you for one second but ... there you go.

 

[Phorumities]

7 hours ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

Pics or it doesn't exist.

Actually it is easy enough to prove with a link to the profile. 

Not that I believe you for one second but ... there you go.

 

The forums are PG. Any examples I showed you would violate forum rules regarding content and the naming of other avatars.

What i've described is easy enough to find if you are interested in seeing examples.

[Ceka Cianci]

The rules are based on real life people and real life groups,not avatars,just to be clear..

Anyone thinking I was quoting the rules to refer to anything other than real people,you've misunderstood what I did there..

That's just in case any of these post were direct towards me showing someone the rules..

hehehe

[Dakota Linden]

Greetings all!

1. Profanity is NOT appropriate on the forums. Trying to get around that policy by masking the words with *** or any other similar alterations doesn't change the fact that you ARE posting a profanity.  I have edited the posts that contained the profanity in order to preserve the conversation.  If you do it again, I will have no choice but to start handing out warnings or suspensions. 

2. Being the "Thought Police" is a very tenuous position to hold.  Racism exists, in many forms, across many cultures and countries, of that there is no question.  But trying to lump who or what someone is under the racism (or any other ism) umbrella just because of who/what they are can be an equally distasteful generalization as well.

If a man only dates women, does this make him homophobic?

If a white woman only dates black men, does this make her racist?

If a black man only dates black women, does this make him racist?

If a white man only dates white women, does this make him racist?

If you take pride in who you are, does that make you racist?

I would venture to say that any group that is in some way exclusive is seen as a threat and a bad thing, regardless of why it is exclusive in the first place.  Perhaps it would be wise to ask yourself WHY you might feel threatened by others, especially if those others have not actually done anything, other than exist?

There is a HUGE difference between saying you are proud that you are white and going around calling others nasty names just because they are not. 

There is a HUGE difference between saying "this is my personal preference" and going around verbally attacking others because their preference is different.

There is a HUGE difference between saying "this is my personal fetish" and going around attacking or harassing others who have a different kink. 

With regards to the issue raised in the OP.  There is a HUGE difference between saying "this is who I am and I am using song lyrics to reflect that" and "this is who I am, and I am going to attack you because you are not the same".

Unless and until any person uses who and what they are as a reason to attack or harass anyone who isn't the same, leave them alone and let them be. 

You cannot control someone's actions, but you can control your own reaction. 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Dakota Linden
Typos: always those dang typos :)

[Clover Jinx]

Can we get Dakota's post stickied all over real life please?

[Phil Deakins]

2 hours ago, Dakota Linden said:

I will have no choice but to start handing out warnings or suspensions. 

Start?

[ellestones]

On 6/13/2018 at 2:49 AM, Dakota Linden said:

There is a HUGE difference between saying "this is who I am and I am using song lyrics to reflect that" and "this is who I am, and I am going to attack you because you are not the same".

^ that

[Ansiri]

Not talking about that profile, but Second Life is very racist world.

Find some nice dance club and music, want to dance some night away and after first steps you find yourself flying somewhere away because you were kicked out for not being a furry.

Go to some sim to do some wandering and the notecard or some sign tells you you're not allowed on the sim, because you're not a human.

[Phorumities]

15 minutes ago, Ansiri said:

Not talking about that profile, but Second Life is very racist world.

Find some nice dance club and music, want to dance some night away and after first steps you find yourself flying somewhere away because you were kicked out for not being a furry.

Go to some sim to do some wandering and the notecard or some sign tells you you're not allowed on the sim, because you're not a human.

Don't worry. When the Second Life Human Rights Commission is set up, excluded avatars will be able to file a grievance and receive monetary compensation, an apology, and the offending sim owner will be forced to allow them entry.

Wait, furries aren't human, so I guess it will have to be the Second Life Pixel Rights Commission

*we don't serve those kind in here*

Edited June 16, 2018 by Phorumities
changed a word to make it read better

[Fionalein]

26 minutes ago, Ansiri said:

Go to some sim to do some wandering and the notecard or some sign tells you you're not allowed on the sim, because you're not a human.

Yeah just am at one such sim fishing, no entry for non humies beyond the fishing spot because it's a "by the book Gorean sim" LOLz, of course Goreanas cannot read books - it's hard to do so one handed so they didn't notice the books are full of non humans...

[Paul Hexem]

4 hours ago, Ansiri said:

Not talking about that profile, but Second Life is very racist world.

Find some nice dance club and music, want to dance some night away and after first steps you find yourself flying somewhere away because you were kicked out for not being a furry.

Go to some sim to do some wandering and the notecard or some sign tells you you're not allowed on the sim, because you're not a human.

Oh, this again...

"Don't wear that here" is not racist. 

Edited June 17, 2018 by Gadget Portal

[Ceka Cianci]

5 hours ago, Ansiri said:

Not talking about that profile, but Second Life is very racist world.

Find some nice dance club and music, want to dance some night away and after first steps you find yourself flying somewhere away because you were kicked out for not being a furry.

Go to some sim to do some wandering and the notecard or some sign tells you you're not allowed on the sim, because you're not a human.

It's kind of like the real world in a way..Each place you visit will either be owned by someone or it will be public..The places owned,you pretty much have to treat like going to someones house..

At my real world house,I'll tell you at the door to take your shoes off before you come in..if you refuse,you don't get to come in..I don't let anyone on my wood floors with shoes on..

Your avatar can change from one thing to another,where someones race can't be changed..

So it's not racist..It's just a sim owner wanting their rules respected that they made for their own world..It's their world their imagination on their land..On your land it's your world your imagination..

Avatars give us the freedom  to opt in or opt out in those kinds of situations..

You don't get that with a race..

 

 

[Ansiri]

On 17.6.2018 at 7:27 AM, Ceka Cianci said:

It's kind of like the real world in a way..Each place you visit will either be owned by someone or it will be public..The places owned,you pretty much have to treat like going to someones house..

At my real world house,I'll tell you at the door to take your shoes off before you come in..if you refuse,you don't get to come in..I don't let anyone on my wood floors with shoes on..

Your avatar can change from one thing to another,where someones race can't be changed..

So it's not racist..It's just a sim owner wanting their rules respected that they made for their own world..It's their world their imagination on their land..On your land it's your world your imagination..

Avatars give us the freedom  to opt in or opt out in those kinds of situations..

You don't get that with a race..

 

 

Yeah, i know what you mean. 

Since we all are here human,  i think of us all just different races here, but it's easy to change your appearance/race here so...  I also think of SL as a game and games have races.

If want to rp and have a world were you can rule what is and is not, you can do it in SL and it's accepted here.

[Calithileth Swansong]

I m proud of my family, my country and my race. I can still love you, if you are not part of any of that. If i get disliked for that i wont hate you for not talking to me.

Only thing that is important to be is if you have a good character while talking to me, or if you are talking to be with mean words. I was called every bad name in the bood allready. do ppl think that makes me like them or thing good about them?

[Gatogateau]

I read through the first page, and no doubt will just be repeating what others have said, but wth:

If you feel like ARing it, then AR it. You drop it into the void and you never know what happens anyway, unless you go back and see their profile has changed, and even then, maybe they just changed it themselves in some fit of epiphany. As long as you aren't abusing AR, by reporting everyone for everything, then I say: Follow your conscience. Just don't get caught up in the result because most ARs don't result in any action as far as I can see.

I agree with others that while the intent is pretty clear, the wording is if-y as far as is it against TOS. Again, no harm in putting in an AR.

There is the school of thought that sometimes those kinds of profiles are rather PSAs of who to stay away from in SL. If you had read the profile first, you wouldn't have purchased anything from them, so there is that. I'm kind of ambivalent on that, and can see it both ways. It sort of depends on how heinous it is, and I've seen a few that required eyebleach application after reading. (And I ARd and I have no idea what happened because I didn't follow that person's profile.)

As to deleting the purchase, I'm not sure. I've already paid the money, the damage is done. I guess it would depend upon what it is and how visible and how likely people are to click on it because they love it and want to buy one too. Years ago there was a singer I liked a lot. Had all of his music. Then he publicly went awful, and stated things I thought were beyond the pale. Even though they were some of my favorites, I destroyed the albums and never listened to his music again. I am not sure if that was the only time I ever did something like that or not, but it is the one that made the most lasting memory.

ETA: Sigh. I just noticed this was necroposted from 2018. gfdi

Edited May 27, 2020 by Gatogateau

[GoSpeed Racer]

On 5/22/2018 at 3:52 AM, Amanda Crisp said:

Someday, the conversation about Race in Second Life will be “was Speed better animated or in Live Action?”

Hopefully someday, only this Race(r) will be provoking conversation 🙂

We gots work to do first though.

Hey, sometimes I do, Amanda!