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LouiseDeBlois

What should I upgrade for secondlife

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Hi all, just got myself a 1070TI and still got some money to spend, so wanting to see what I should upgrade next.

Currently, I am running:

GPU: GeForce Nvidia 1070ti

RAM: 16GB ram (2x 8GB sticks in 2 ports)

CPU: Intel i7 4790 (8CPUS)

DAC - Intergrated RAMDAC

I will also link this benchmark test which shows off all my hardware I am currently using so you can grasp more information than me typing out everything in a DX diag. It is a bit old, so i will explain the edits as well to it: http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/8530914

 

(EDITED BENCHMARK: THIS IS THE NEWEST RESULT: http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/8819520 )

 

Now using a SSD 250GB Samsung drive. along with the HDD shown in the benchmark.

And I have upgraded to windows 10 64 bit Enterprise

 

I am wondering if i need to upgrade my CPU, or RAM, yet a friend told me the CPU might be the better option if I were to upgrade to a I7-8700k or higher, yet, a I7-8700k would fit my price range better.

 

Thanks for any input :)

 

Edited by LouiseDeBlois

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Based on your last thread, a good CPU heatsink would be a thought...

And whoever told you that you need to upgrade your CPU should stay miles away from anything hardware related.

RAM is overpriced anyway, no point in investing in more and probably unneeded DDR3 tech, which you cannot even reuse on a new plattform.

I'm rather baffled that even your new SSD shows up as working below its expectation in that userbenchmark, along with your CPU and the HDD. That's something I'd rather explore instead of blindly buying any new hardware.

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Yeah, that confused me as well, as it was a fresh install and everything was put onto that. Unless, its the fact I still have not cleaned the old hard-drive, and I am getting the

Pick what OS to boot on startup, on a windows 10 splash screen indicating both windows 10 and 7 are available.

 

But yes, I will work on the CPU heat sink, just need to find a good 4 pin connection CPU heat sink, possibly with a fan/quiet when idle running as much current still makes a noise when the PC is idle.

 

((Side question: Would overclocking be worth it at all? As it seems my PC would be able to have some leway with Overclocking, of course, after the CPU is sorted out))

Edited by LouiseDeBlois

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If you have the plain 4790 without the k, there is no overclocking for you.

How did you install your Win10? Did you have both drives connected and powered? It's wise to keep your data disc disconnected during the install, so the boot sector won't sit on both drives. But it's only logical that you'll see the dialogue to choose between Win10 and Win7 installation, since the HDD remained untouched. 

What is your case or what are its measurements, to pick a heat sink?

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That might be the case, as the HDD was plugged in at the time, worst case, I will do a fresh install. 

And for the dimensions,  the Heat sink port is a 4 pin connection, not sure on the 4 pins, but the current intel heat sink fan I am using is 9.2 x 9.2 CM Width and height. The current heatsink being used is this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-Original-E97378-LGA1155-1156-Aluminum-E97378-Bulk/dp/B00NVMME58/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1525622626&sr=8-3&keywords=intel+e97378-001

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Well yeah, the original Intel stock cooler one doesn't help at all in terms of size and such. Hence why I asked for the case measurements.

A 4 pin connector allows you to control its spinning speed via the mainboard, simply put. That's a standard for CPU cooler fans.

Some potential choices as a new cooler, cheap and handy to advanced and yet only 155mm in height:

  • EKL Ben Nevis ... no idea why they put "be quiet!" in the headline, those two brands aren't associated. Only 140mm in height.
  • EKL Brocken Eco ... had the pleasure to put this in a few systems already, I like it as it is a nice average in all terms (size, cooling, noise, room for high RAM modules)
  • Scythe Mugen 5 Rev. B ... the highest one among the choices, a classic revised.

... UK based was right, wasn't it? Coolers by Thermalright and Noctua also offer very good solutions, but are usually much taller, so they may conflict with narrow cases.

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If you have a Z87 (updated bios) or Z97 motherboard, sell the 4790 (temporarily replace it with a Pentium G3260 or something for like 30$) and buy an i7 4790k, overclock the crap out of it on an AIO water cooler or something similar. AIO water would be the easiest option for you if you wanted a cooler upgrade and OC potential, but a high end air cooler wold also be a good option.

Just upgrading the cooler on a 4790 will do literally nothing for performance, it will make it run a bit cooler and probably be less noisy but really unless that thing is hitting 90-100c its not even going to thermal throttle.

Dont bother with an 8700k unless you need 6 cores, and for SL you definitely dont need 6 cores. A 4790k will hold you for a LONG time.

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On 5/19/2018 at 3:59 PM, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Well yeah, the original Intel stock cooler one doesn't help at all in terms of size and such. Hence why I asked for the case measurements.

A 4 pin connector allows you to control its spinning speed via the mainboard, simply put. That's a standard for CPU cooler fans.

Some potential choices as a new cooler, cheap and handy to advanced and yet only 155mm in height:

  • EKL Ben Nevis ... no idea why they put "be quiet!" in the headline, those two brands aren't associated. Only 140mm in height.
  • EKL Brocken Eco ... had the pleasure to put this in a few systems already, I like it as it is a nice average in all terms (size, cooling, noise, room for high RAM modules)
  • Scythe Mugen 5 Rev. B ... the highest one among the choices, a classic revised.

... UK based was right, wasn't it? Coolers by Thermalright and Noctua also offer very good solutions, but are usually much taller, so they may conflict with narrow cases.

Yeah Noctua coolers are just gigantic, i still have one sitting in a box, unused because it doesn't fit inside the deepest server rack -_- I have...

Also if you feel adventurous you can slightly improve dissipation on those single fan side blowers by sticking a second fan on the other side.

I'm currently using the ryzen 5 stock cooler, it seem to be really decent.

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Thanks for the replies, I will look into all this options and will update if needed. Right now im going to focus on updating/reinstalling windows 10 without the HDD plugged in and give it another test run and hope for the best. 

I am wondering though, if a new Motherboard would be a good option for dual Graphic cards, the works.

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You have more than enough machine for SL. What's the problem? You could even run ▉▉▉▉ ▉▉▉▉▉▉▉▉ or ▉▉▉▉▉▉▉▉▉ or ▉▉▉▉▉▉.

With 8GB on the graphics card, you should be able to set a long draw distance and see the detail. With the hardware you have, you should be able to run on Ultra graphics settings and enjoy the shadows and lighting effects.

SL has a bandwidth limit at the server end; it will only feed you objects up to a server side limit. Once you can display as much as SL will send you, more hardware at the viewer end won't help much.

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It rather sounds as if you want a new system. You certainly don't need a whole new platform at this point. I even argue that you should look into that k version of your CPU, just for the sake of overclocking. Not even getting into details concerning "all in one" watercooling solutions, which are even likely to be the inferior choice when compared to high quality CPU coolers.

A Crossfire/ SLI setup ... I suppose that's what you mean with "dual Graphic cards" ... isn't worth all the hassle it comes with (more power needed, more heat and noise produced, room taken up, driver hassles and so on). Your much better bet would be getting the choosing the strongest card on the market. Right now, you got your 1070ti and that should keep you happy for a while.

Am I the only one to see black squares in animats' "you could even run..." line?

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2 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

Nope. I see them too - although they're rectangles, not squares :P

LL personnel have been displeased with my mentions of competing virtual worlds. Hence the self-censorship.

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Well, I will tinker a bit more then, and see what I can do, as for some odd reason i still get lag whilst running on MED settings, on any viewer, FS, SL, Black Dragon, Sing. 

I have done a health test, RAM, CPU, GPU are all in good condition. 

Maybe the black boxes could be used to improve performance? :P

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On 5/20/2018 at 2:21 PM, LouiseDeBlois said:

I am wondering though, if a new Motherboard would be a good option for dual Graphic cards, the works.

SL wont take advantage of SLI/Crossfire configurations unless youre using some specific dual chip cards, and 1070ti SLI is really just not a necessity for anything right now anyway, wait a year or two until the cards are cheap and perform kinda average, then get a second for SLI to have your configuration last longer.

On 5/20/2018 at 3:16 PM, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Not even getting into details concerning "all in one" watercooling solutions, which are even likely to be the inferior choice when compared to high quality CPU coolers.

I only suggest an AIO because its easy, it fits into anything with a 120mm fan mount, without details on case cooler height restriction, ram clearance, etc, its just easier to say "buy an AIO" because its gonna work 100%.

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On 5/21/2018 at 7:19 PM, Lillith Hapmouche said:

How do you define "lag" in your scenario?

Sorry for the delay, been a hectic week. 

 

And well, As on my previous forum post, with the lag issue. I done a comparison test with a friend of mine. Same Sim, looking in the same direction with settings the same. Only difference they have is their CPU.

OS, GPU, RAM are on the same level. Yet, while i get around 20FPS without shadows etc. They hit 30FPS with shadows on, and, around 40 without shadows on. 

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Sorry to be nitpicking, but ... same level or exactly the same version? :)

What is your friend's CPU, out of curiosity?

And... 20? 30 or 40? And just 10fps as a difference between shadows on and off? What draw distance are you running at? That'll be my first guess for such a low outcome.

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Lag in your case is likely CPU, Memory, or motherboard or even more likely the combination of the three. 

SL performance is more sensitive to CPU speed than the number of cores. While viewers are multi-threading the render engine runs in a single thread. The FPS is more limited by CPU frequency. Faster CPU's are better. 

The Intel i5's tend to be the sweet spot for price-performance. Your Intel i7-4790 can run at 4.4GHz, provided your individual chip is top notch. I can only push my i5-6700k to 4.1. Faster speeds are unstable and I crash. So, what speed are you running your i7 at? Newer CPU's will be more efficient (less power and a bit faster data transfer) but they don't run any faster... not significantly.

The motherboard has a chipset. Somewhere a z97 was mentioned. THe chipset and board design control how fast memory can work and how fast you can move data to and from the hard drives. Your problem is that boards supporting 6th and 7th gen CPUs use the FCLGA1151 socket, incompatible with the 1150 socket your CPU uses.

The 6th & 7th gen boards use z170 and z270 chipset and provide more USB channels and more PCIe channels. The 8th gen CPU's use the same 1151 socket but to take full advantage of the CPU features you have to have a z370 or better chipset. (I'm not covering all the possible chips sets but they all have similar compatibility issues. The H3710, H370, and Q370 chips sets have 6, 20, and 24 PCIe channels.) The PCIe bus moves data to the video card and to and from storage devices. 6 channels is not enough. You'll bottleneck in the PCIe bus.

As you move to newer CPUs and boards you'll find they can use FASTER memory. From 6th gen CPU and up DDR4 is supported giving speeds in the 3200MBps range. I can buy a range of memory chips running from 2133MHz to 3333MHz, a 40+/- variation in speed. If your CPU is waiting on memory things slow down. Modern CPU's have caches so they are not a sensitive to memory speeds. But, if you use a RAMDisk you'll find places where memory speed has an effect.

Lillith makes the point that what you spend now on your i7-4970 and motherboard is a bit of a lost cause as you won't be able to move much of it if any to newer hardware. Any gains you get with the existing hardware will be minimal.

Also, the idea of running a CPU cooler to get more speed is only works if your unit is overheating now. Running cooler generally means longer chip life. But, this CPU is already out living its usefulness.

Your pretty much to the point of finding what is lagging you current hardware or spending money for a major upgrade.

 

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10 hours ago, LouiseDeBlois said:

Sorry for the delay, been a hectic week. 

 

And well, As on my previous forum post, with the lag issue. I done a comparison test with a friend of mine. Same Sim, looking in the same direction with settings the same. Only difference they have is their CPU.

OS, GPU, RAM are on the same level. Yet, while i get around 20FPS without shadows etc. They hit 30FPS with shadows on, and, around 40 without shadows on. 

Have you tweaked the settings with the NVidea Control Panel? You graphic card with high quality setting and for example 240 meters draw distance should easy do 60+ FPS in sims as for example Waterhead

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On 5/25/2018 at 9:57 PM, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Sorry to be nitpicking, but ... same level or exactly the same version? :)

What is your friend's CPU, out of curiosity?

And... 20? 30 or 40? And just 10fps as a difference between shadows on and off? What draw distance are you running at? That'll be my first guess for such a low outcome.

Hi, sorry for the delay, my friend uses a i7-8700k We both used the same draw distance of 128, both on the latest release of Firestorm, and tested it with the same settings on the basic SL viewer. They still get higher FPS count even with Shadows on, (projectors) in this case, while I struggle to hit the same FPS even with shadows off.

 

On 5/26/2018 at 7:22 AM, Rachel1206 said:

Have you tweaked the settings with the NVidea Control Panel? You graphic card with high quality setting and for example 240 meters draw distance should easy do 60+ FPS in sims as for example Waterhead

Thanks for the info, sadly, I have not, As, i have no idea where to start with all that stuff, I can put the current settings here from the Nvidia control panel, what would you need to see, or, what shall i tinker with?

 

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Sorry, but a 8700k versus your 4790 non-k are neither the same level and not even the same socket. Add in potentially faster RAM timings on your friend's setup and that'll be just enough difference in performance to explain the differing results you encounter.

I still have a feeling that something in your setup is limiting its potential, because CPU-wise, we are more on par than you and your friend, with mine being the weaker one. But I usually see higher FPS than you... 

As a dirty ole fix, I'd strongly suggest to lower your draw distance. 96m is still quite a distance, but also less to calculate and to render. 

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