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Sciffer Mortenwold

Harassment and slandering

Question

There is a person on sl that has my sim, as well as one of my admins in her profile, making some false claims on us. We did report her, which by the way I never do cause sl as it is gives plenty of options to deal with griefers and harassers but in this case I felt that it is needed. Now is there a way to follow up on this because what she is doing is really not legal even. 

Here what happened in detail. She came to our rp sim, and started argument with one of our admins , claiming that her name is racist, which it is not true and she never had that thrown at her but hey, opinions wary so we did not hold that against her and did not give her a warning or anything of sorts, just did not continued conversation. Later that day she started to argue with me over one of the sim rules, it's an rp sim. Claiming that the site is not clear, now I don't hold that against her, just explain in detail what happened so her doing can be shown for what it really is. I did point out that she just overlooked a line, which admittedly is written in  bold print and in large right there. She did not take it too well and told me that I can't take criticism and me putting "lol" is not appreciated and I am making bad first impression, that site sucks and she is right. At this point I do believe any sim owner would be in full right to ban her for sheer ignorance and disrespect but thats not how we roll so I tried to smooth it out while pointing out that first impression goes both ways. She did not seem to agree and decided to leave with a huge "your sim and everything about it sucks" message. Left and muted me so I could not even reply. After that she put in her profile picks that this place is a place to avoid and listed why, same as my admin as people to avoid. 

In most cases I am fine with people having other opinion, not everyone gonna like me or my sim, thats matter of life and thats ok but what she is doing is harassment. My partner sent her offliner, politely asking her to rethinking putting that in her profile because no one means her ill and that she has full right for opinion but what she does in picks is not cool. To which she replied rather rudely and insulted us all over again. How do you deal with this beside report? Because lets be very clear here, opinion and free speech is a thing but slandering is a legal issue that is punishable. She put in her profile that our admin is racist and basically thinks it's ok to use N word which came completely out of blue because she claims it in a way like "she has that as her name so this must be same thing." She is starting drama and slandering others and does it for sim as well, claiming things she does not even know or understand, plus it is clear that her quote on quote opinion/review is based largely on her bias which is not quite honest, she even makes some claims on me there which can't be more distant from truth as well. Over all, it is unpleasant thing to have around and while I do not care for something like a ban for her or anything, by all means, she should enjoy sl as all of us, but in same time she should not lie about others and places like that. I would be more than content with her being forced to remove that from her profile. 

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report,

ban,

mute,

derender,

don't ever look at the profile again,

take a deep breath,

move on.

 

There's nothing more unless you want to bring it to rl, but check your chances first or it might get a very expensive issue.

 

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1 hour ago, Sciffer Mortenwold said:

 I do not understand why things like that are allowed when all I am asking is to take down profile picks of someone. 

Do as Alwin suggests. As it stands now, all you can do is report for harassment. Showing slander is a slippery slope for you have to show that YOU are not that person this individual is claiming.

Frankly, I see these type of picks on profiles and I get the impression someone has an axe to grind. They hold no water IMO. I truly doubt picks like that make any difference. So to make a long answer short, forget about this person and move on. Work your RP sim and have fun.

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5 hours ago, Sciffer Mortenwold said:

but slandering is a legal issue that is punishable.

Civil offense, not Criminal, means you can't demand that the cops arrest and preosecute people for saying things about you that you don't like.

You CAN pay a lawyer to sue them for you, but in libel/slander cases, this usually means YOU have to PROVE what they said is NOT TRUE..

4 hours ago, Sciffer Mortenwold said:

which she parades as fact when it is based on her personal opinion. People can actually sue for things like that

Yeah you can sue people for having an opinion of you that you don't like, but it's expensive and generally pretty stupid.

3 hours ago, Sciffer Mortenwold said:

Someone who runs a sim in your game, pays you real world money to do it and not a pocket change either, get slandered in your game by someone who feels entitled for voice and right to make up false claims, does not support the game as much as we do even by a fraction and gets favored?

And now you play the "I'm Entitled" card, because you pay for a sim... You have no way of knowing if they or their alt pay for a sim or more than one. Claiming that you are right because you hold digital land is again, not a sound tactic.

3 hours ago, Sciffer Mortenwold said:

I know that things like that are expensive in rl and I did not say I want to press legal charges, all I said is that this is not legal.

Slander isn't exactly illegal either, in as much as it's not slander until YOU prove that it's untrue, via litigation.

3 hours ago, Sciffer Mortenwold said:

but at times we got to do whats actually right thing to do, especially when you have clear reasoning and backup of real life law to do it.

Problem is you don't have the backing of the Law... Unless you can find their real name and adress, and sue them for slander, and prove what they said about you is false, oh and convince the jury that what they said about your unreal game characters and virtual hangout is remotely adverse to your real world interests...

"Their online cartoon insulted my online cartoon... Wahhhhh Call the FBI!"

That will get you nowhere fast, and cost you a lot of cash.

File an AR against them, if LL do something about it, great, if not, tough luck, grow thicker skin, move on.
 

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Sciffer,

You said "... What sucks is that two advisors seem to think that this sort of behavior is alright or at least something that no one can do something about. What sort of message is that? ..."

I'd like to clear something up.  None of us here are employees of Linden Lab.  We are volunteer helpers, and residents just like you.  So the answers you are getting are not necessarily the official position of Linden Lab.

And I had better clarify something else, too.  The whole issue of "legality" in Second Life.  Here is something that everyone should understand, and almost nobody does:  THERE IS NO LAW IN SECOND LIFE.  Yep, you heard me right.  What there is, is the Terms of Service, the Community Standards, and the various LL policies that they reference.  When somebody slanders you in their profile, you can submit an Abuse Report about it.  If LL determines that it violates the ToS or other LL policy, they will take action.  However, if they feel that it does not breach the ToS, they will deem that it is a "resident to resident dispute" and will not take action...even if it might be considered legally actionable in the real world.  It is exactly this situation that we are trying to make clear to you, and it is what you characterize (correctly) as "...something that no one can do something about."  It's not that we are dismissive of your problem, you see.  It's that your problem is not solvable in the way you would wish, under the system we have.

In a few very rare cases, people have taken a dispute to the real world legal system, usually when many thousands of dollars are at issue.  If you choose to do that, plan to spend a minimum of $20,000 USD, and possibly much more.  You'll want to consult an attorney, not the Answers Forum.

Now, aside from that, what can be done?  Alwin gave you good, succinct advice.  Report, mute, ban, ignore, and move on.  I seriously doubt that one annoyed resident whose profile slanders you and your operation is going to cause you serious harm.  If it's any consolation to you, remember the old adage, "Any press is good press", which basically means that any time you get any kind of media attention, good or bad, it means free publicity.

 

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2 hours ago, Sciffer Mortenwold said:

Guys, once again. I respect your input but you are not telling me anything I do not actually know.

but why than post it in a section where normally questions are posted that ask for solutions? It's no official channel to communicate with LL employees, the support portal is online for that.

2 hours ago, Sciffer Mortenwold said:

 all I am asking is to take down profile picks of someone. 

"all you are asking"... it's not quite nothing to do that, éven if you have a point, others are allowed to not like you, your sim, or how you act, not act, your managers, your hair, your..... name it...

When you send in a report LL will have a look at it. And at THEIR conclusion they will act. If that is nothing, you can repeat your report, but if it's only a inter residential issue not much results are to expect.

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14 hours ago, Sciffer Mortenwold said:

...by all means, she should enjoy sl as all of us, but in same time she should not lie about others and places like that...

That, quite likely, is her way of enjoying SL. 
You won't change that. Feeding her with more attention and ill-placed good will won't change that.

Rather give that stunt the same kind of attention that you'd devote to a piece of trash. None.

Rather take it as free PR for you. Chances are that she's either already known as a troublemaker and thus profile readers might actually conclude that your place is worth visiting, especially if she won't be around. Certainly not the first and not the last case of a "player" throwing a hissy fit for nothing.

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23 hours ago, Sciffer Mortenwold said:

There is a person on sl that has my sim, as well as one of my admins in her profile, making some false claims on us. We did report her, which by the way I never do cause sl as it is gives plenty of options to deal with griefers and harassers but in this case I felt that it is needed. Now is there a way to follow up on this because what she is doing is really not legal even. 

Here what happened in detail. She came to our rp sim, and started argument with one of our admins , claiming that her name is racist, which it is not true and she never had that thrown at her but hey, opinions wary so we did not hold that against her and did not give her a warning or anything of sorts, just did not continued conversation. Later that day she started to argue with me over one of the sim rules, it's an rp sim. Claiming that the site is not clear, now I don't hold that against her, just explain in detail what happened so her doing can be shown for what it really is. I did point out that she just overlooked a line, which admittedly is written in  bold print and in large right there. She did not take it too well and told me that I can't take criticism and me putting "lol" is not appreciated and I am making bad first impression, that site sucks and she is right. At this point I do believe any sim owner would be in full right to ban her for sheer ignorance and disrespect but thats not how we roll so I tried to smooth it out while pointing out that first impression goes both ways. She did not seem to agree and decided to leave with a huge "your sim and everything about it sucks" message. Left and muted me so I could not even reply. After that she put in her profile picks that this place is a place to avoid and listed why, same as my admin as people to avoid. 

In most cases I am fine with people having other opinion, not everyone gonna like me or my sim, thats matter of life and thats ok but what she is doing is harassment. My partner sent her offliner, politely asking her to rethinking putting that in her profile because no one means her ill and that she has full right for opinion but what she does in picks is not cool. To which she replied rather rudely and insulted us all over again. How do you deal with this beside report? Because lets be very clear here, opinion and free speech is a thing but slandering is a legal issue that is punishable. She put in her profile that our admin is racist and basically thinks it's ok to use N word which came completely out of blue because she claims it in a way like "she has that as her name so this must be same thing." She is starting drama and slandering others and does it for sim as well, claiming things she does not even know or understand, plus it is clear that her quote on quote opinion/review is based largely on her bias which is not quite honest, she even makes some claims on me there which can't be more distant from truth as well. Over all, it is unpleasant thing to have around and while I do not care for something like a ban for her or anything, by all means, she should enjoy sl as all of us, but in same time she should not lie about others and places like that. I would be more than content with her being forced to remove that from her profile. 

1. Has your traffic dropped as a result of her breakdown? I'd hazard a guess not.

2. So, as your traffic has not dropped, why have you not just banned, and muted her? Why get cut up about someone's butt-hurt words?

My general opinion on this sort of people - and I've had such a nutcase claiming in their many alt's profiles I run an unsavory club is "Why bother?" Most rational adults know these profile griefers are the deranged idiots, and additionally sheer, unhinged drama magnets.

My traffic, since they made their accusation against my club in their many profiles has risen fom 1,000 to a minimum of 4,000 and most often over 6,000 every day of the week. I'd like to put that down to them being banned and as a result the club being a nicer, safer place without that raving lunatic.

Try my way, it's pretty cool. Watch your traffic and see that these words mean absolute jack.

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On 15/05/2018 at 6:08 AM, Sciffer Mortenwold said:

Guys, once again. I respect your input but you are not telling me anything I do not actually know. I do not need to look at her profile, other people will however. I know that things like that are expensive in rl and I did not say I want to press legal charges, all I said is that this is not legal. What sucks is that two advisors seem to think that this sort of behavior is alright or at least something that no one can do something about. What sort of message is that? Now I am not quiting or anything, I am thankful for the outlet that sl provides and if there is nothing else that can be done or said then alright but do dwell on it. Someone who runs a sim in your game, pays you real world money to do it and not a pocket change either, get slandered in your game by someone who feels entitled for voice and right to make up false claims, does not support the game as much as we do even by a fraction and gets favored? I know there are protocols for everything, but at times we got to do whats actually right thing to do, especially when you have clear reasoning and backup of real life law to do it. I do not understand why things like that are allowed when all I am asking is to take down profile picks of someone. 

Yeah, it's likely other people will see her profile.  Most will not have a clue what or who she's talking about, and pretty much all of them will just roll their eyes at more daft sl drama.  Anyone with anxiety issues about this should just mute her and ignore her and not look at her profile.  Why do something pointless like that if it's going to upset you?  We all know that there are some people who get entitled about stuff, mute, ban, move on.  What you're asking LL to do here is be judge and jury and edit this person's profile.  Why on earth would they bother when the solution is already provided. Short answer? they won't.  If you're really keen to waste a lot of serious rl money you can get a lawyer/solicitor to subpoena LL for this person's rl details and sue them for libel (slander has to be spoken, libel is written).  Likely they will require a court order within their jurisdiction, so be prepared to travel to San Francisco and pay a lot of money.  Which will be a total waste of time, as no judge is at all likely to issue such an order.  Even if they did you would still have massive court expenses, and if the person you're cross with doesn't live in the US the whole thing is utterly pointless.

You see, you're wasting your time and energy on a stupid argument about a game.  Move on, dude, let it go.  

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Posted (edited)

Unless the alleged slanderer is revealing RL information then what's the big deal? I believe any reasonable person will feel as I do when I see comments like those you complain of in someone else's profile: "Oh, this person is a drama-queen and has real issues and surely the reason they have for hating this person they mention was instigated or created by themselves."

I see this type of comments every now and again in people's profiles. I usually roll my eyes and laugh. The people who feel the need to "warn others" are usually the trouble-makers or have personal issues.

The only possible way that slander (or malice, in general) can possibly happen in SL is when RL information of any kind is shared and that's against TOS and, in some cases, can be a bannable offense.

Ans now that I've made my own thoughts on the subject known, you can imagine my thoughts on a very thread such as this. ~snorts~

Edited by Alyona Su

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I do have to respectfully disagree. I have never reported a player before but what she does is not ok and it would be good to see if staff of sl actually took it seriously. Because lets be very basic here. What do we do? We pay hundreds of dollars to run the sim, we support sl like this and this is same as none profit business for us. Then you have someone come in and slander it, how is this different than harassment or cyber bulling? In places like sl things like that should be taken seriously because these are real world problems, avatars do no ran themselves, same as facebook profiles do not ran themselves, there are people behind the screens and some have anxiety issues. Not me, I am fortunate enough but some do, some people she has in her profile, lying about them, is sl staff ok with that? 

I always handle things as calmly as possible but I do take this one seriously and I do want something to actually come out of it. Like I said, idc what she does or what opinion she verbally shares and if she stays around or not, all I care for is open claim in her profile, which she parades as fact when it is based on her personal opinion. People can actually sue for things like that. 

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Guys, once again. I respect your input but you are not telling me anything I do not actually know. I do not need to look at her profile, other people will however. I know that things like that are expensive in rl and I did not say I want to press legal charges, all I said is that this is not legal. What sucks is that two advisors seem to think that this sort of behavior is alright or at least something that no one can do something about. What sort of message is that? Now I am not quiting or anything, I am thankful for the outlet that sl provides and if there is nothing else that can be done or said then alright but do dwell on it. Someone who runs a sim in your game, pays you real world money to do it and not a pocket change either, get slandered in your game by someone who feels entitled for voice and right to make up false claims, does not support the game as much as we do even by a fraction and gets favored? I know there are protocols for everything, but at times we got to do whats actually right thing to do, especially when you have clear reasoning and backup of real life law to do it. I do not understand why things like that are allowed when all I am asking is to take down profile picks of someone. 

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