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2 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Buy Madlands : You pay a price, often a large price, to Madlander Max the Flipper Baron. All you get for this is your name in the parcel owner box on about land, and the right to be regarded by LL as the shmuck who pays the tier. Doesn't matter how big the parcel is, you can NEVER have estate rights, you often don't get landscaping rights, being unable to join or divide parcels is also not uncommon. If youyr neighbours are unruly Madlander pigs, tough, live with it or move... "Madlands! No Rulz No Rulz Witness MEH!"

 

I once facetiously said the true Madlands were in your mind; I'm starting to think I wasn't really being facetious. Where do the limitations in red occur?

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1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

But there still is a niche for that kind of Second Life. And that niche can only be filled on mainland and only by fairly large landowners - whether that landowner is a group or a single person doesn't really matter.

Multi-sim themed RP-friendly communities can ONLY be built on the Madlands? Now who's making, what was it you said... Oh yes...

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

the sweeping statements

Solar and subsequently myself, spke of the fact that GENERALLY, as far as parcel rights received for yourt money, island rentals beat Madland ownership every day, and are almost always better than Madlands parcel rental.

YOU chose to put on your Entitlement Goggles and complain that YOUR  rentals were SPECIAL and that WE were specifically attacking YOU, and that YOU had a right to defend your SPECIALNESS.

Cue wall of pics promo spam...

As if others couldn't find 10 times as many pics of Madlands areas that were fugly eyesores with nasty minded Madlanders playing "piss down your neighbours back and tell them it's raining".

You're a good builder, but a not so good thinker. Just because YOU have made a special effort on YOUR plot, doesn't mean the Madlands isn't generally, a fugging cesspit filled with inconsiderate asshats.

Want to know the easiest way to spot a Madlander who has just moved to a 1/4 sim plot in the islands for the first time?

...

"Lookee lookee, I gots me landscapin rites! Hoooooeeee! Gonna build me a 40 m high dirt privacy wall round mah parcel!"
 

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1 hour ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

I once facetiously said the true Madlands were in your mind; I'm starting to think I wasn't really being facetious. Where do the limitations in red occur?

There are plots in Kama City for example where you have no join/divide, people end up owning two separate plots side by side because they cannot join them, there are also areas in SL where landscaping the ground is either limited to a fee meters, or simply disallowed, so owners don't spoil the overall terrain of the region.

You might have noticed this if you'd paid more attention, or indeed, any attention.
 

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8 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Not to mention the cost of the time machine you'd need to use, because fee for the monthly premium membership has been lower than that for well over a year (completely ignoring the fact that that it's a better deal to pay quarterly or annually, of course...)

Yeah, I pay annually -- BUT MANY DON'T, I ASK MY CUSTOMERS, DO YOU?. And I just paid a month on an account for -- wait for it! -- $9.50.

Gosh, $9.50 is SO DIFFERENT AND SO MUCH LOWER THAN $9.95 WOW.

You're just distracting from the obvious basic point: for the average person who isn't a power player paying a year or even three months in advance. $9.50 -- GOSH NOT $9.95 WHAT A DIFFERENCE -- is what he has to add to his cost of OWNING versus RENTING land, which DOES NOT HAVE that cost. Virtually ANY Mainland rental -- unless of course there's some really rare high-end Horizons rental -- will be CHEAPER and MUCH CHEAPER than owning, i.e. US $2.00 a month instead of $9.50 with the 1024 m included.

 

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1 hour ago, Klytyna said:

Multi-sim themed RP-friendly communities can ONLY be built on the Madlands? Now who's making, what was it you said... Oh yes...

Solar and subsequently myself, spke of the fact that GENERALLY, as far as parcel rights received for yourt money, island rentals beat Madland ownership every day, and are almost always better than Madlands parcel rental.

YOU chose to put on your Entitlement Goggles and complain that YOUR  rentals were SPECIAL and that WE were specifically attacking YOU, and that YOU had a right to defend your SPECIALNESS.

Cue wall of pics promo spam...

As if others couldn't find 10 times as many pics of Madlands areas that were fugly eyesores with nasty minded Madlanders playing "piss down your neighbours back and tell them it's raining".

You're a good builder, but a not so good thinker. Just because YOU have made a special effort on YOUR plot, doesn't mean the Madlands isn't generally, a fugging cesspit filled with inconsiderate asshats.

Want to know the easiest way to spot a Madlander who has just moved to a 1/4 sim plot in the islands for the first time?

...

"Lookee lookee, I gots me landscapin rites! Hoooooeeee! Gonna build me a 40 m high dirt privacy wall round mah parcel!"
 

Of course, the obvious thing to point out is that the forums regs who literally spend all day long here pouncing with a "dislike" on any post people like me put up are not representative of anything. They're not even representative of the tiny 2 percent who post out of the 5 percent who use the forums -- because most posters in that tiny group aren't as vitriolic AND they even rent or own on the Mainland happily. 

It's hardly a case of SPECIALNESS to defend Mainland rentals, even if one is in the business because after all, we represent CUSTOMERS. You know, people who pay us to rent our land? Do you have that experience at all in SL? Do you log in? I guess it wouldn't be under the name Klytyna as there isn't such a person in the People List.

Why would your putative "Madlander" have to build a 40m high "privacy wall" if his new rental on a homestead is so lovely and private? What, the owner can't turn on "avatars can't see me"?

 

Edited by Prokofy Neva

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If you are going to rent, you're better off renting an Island parcel - assuming you're not looking for a community. 

You can stop pretending to have Special Secret Knowledge, Glass Ego. 

You know quite literally nothing, end of story. 

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2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

 $9.50 -- GOSH NOT $9.95

WHAT A DIFFERENCE --

weren't you attacking somebody for Tier instead or tier some days ago?....

On 17-5-2018 at 7:44 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

Tier is spelled "tier".

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4 hours ago, Klytyna said:

There are plots in Kama City for example where you have no join/divide, people end up owning two separate plots side by side because they cannot join them, there are also areas in SL where landscaping the ground is either limited to a fee meters, or simply disallowed, so owners don't spoil the overall terrain of the region.

You might have noticed this if you'd paid more attention, or indeed, any attention.
 

I pay enough attention to know that a handful of specifically "urban" areas don't equal "not uncommon" or else you'd have to say the same thing about private estates because of situations like Lionheart, Something Estates, etc.

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This is tiresome. Some people like the Mainland, some prefer Estates. The reasons have been hashed over a million times on every incarnation of "forums" ever known to Second Life. Whether it's bought or rented, there are advantages and disadvantages to both.

Also, to make a possibly substantive contribution: There are ways to make Mainland rental nearly indistinguishable from Estate rentals for 99% of what tenants want. The simplest way is to start by allotting a separate land group for each rental. That's not practical for regions full of 1024s, but perfectly practical for larger or more specialized, service-intensive rentals.

Even without the dedicated group approach, the newish (2013) LSL function llReturnObjectsByOwner(), though underutilized, can be combined with proper parcel settings to make shared-group rentals appealing for both Mainland and Estates. (Remember, many high-end Estate rentals are LI-generous spaces in urban residential towers, not commodity island parcels.)

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10 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Do you log in? I guess it wouldn't be under the name Klytyna as there isn't such a person in the People List.

If I didn't exist, under this name as you fraudulently claim... I wouldn't have an SL Profile and Feed, but I do...

The only way to post snapshots to your profile feed is by logging into SL, and taking a snapshot and clicking the "upload" button to post it on your feed...

https://my.secondlife.com/klytyna/snapshots/59383053d9859c14ed000001

Oh look!

I have a feed, and snapshots...

So THIS account does exist in SL, and you are proven once again to be THE MOST CLUELESS Madlander on the Forums. One SO ignorant of the basics of SL, that you don't know what a "contact card" is, or how not to drag your gacha into the foundation of your office building, or that there is an option for profiles "Do not show in search", that's intended to stop spammy trolls harassing you by searching the "People List".

If you wish to tell further LIES about my existence, do so on the understandingthat it will be at your own risk, starting with the risk of making your self look like a damned fool... AGAIN.

Best advice I can give you... Back up out of my face...
 

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11 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

You're just distracting from the obvious basic point: for the average person who isn't a power player paying a year or even three months in advance.

Actually one would think any sane person who tries to hold on to mainland ownership would plan ahead more than a month... You don't have to be a "power player" to do the math.

Edited by Fionalein
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3 hours ago, Fionalein said:

Actually one would think any sane person who tries to hold on to mainland ownership would plan ahead more than a month... You don't have to be a "power player" to do the math.

I agree with this. I'm not a 'power player,' -- whatever that is -- I just don't like paying more than I have to for a product. 

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22 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Buy Madlands : You pay a price, often a large price, to Madlander Max the Flipper Baron. All you get for this is your name in the parcel owner box on about land, and the right to be regarded by LL as the shmuck who pays the tier. Doesn't matter how big the parcel is, you can NEVER have estate rights, you often don't get landscaping rights, being unable to join or divide parcels is also not uncommon. If youyr neighbours are unruly Madlander pigs, tough, live with it or move... "Madlands! No Rulz No Rulz Witness MEH!"

Please explain how you came to the conclusion that you often don't get landscaping rights also not being able to join or divide parcels is limited a very select areas of Mainland. There are also rules on mainland, the rules set by LL which apply to Estates too. Sure Estates can have further rules imposed but guess what, they don't all enforce extra rules. Get stuck with a neighbor you don't like on an estate and it's up to the estate manager to sort it out, if they don't want to then you are stuck with them just like anywhere else.

22 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Rent Madlands : You pay rent to Madlander Max, if you are lucky he'll let you join his land group so you can actually REZ stuff on "your new home". The land group membership that lets you rez there, lets your neighbours rez there too. The land group role that lets you send back unwanted crap may allow your neighbours to send back your stuff. Landscaping rights? Get real! And on the day after you pay 4 weeks rental, because the landlord is charged tier monthly and insists on monthly rental payments, said land lord sells the whole region to The Humungous and his road warriors, who evicts you because he plans to build a dune biggy racetrack and you didn't pay HIM any 4 weeks rent, no sir!

Clearly you've had an issue with a specific landlord however not all mainland rentals are like this. Mine for example (PS don't take this as self promotion, I am just using mine as an example as I am most familiar with my own) have automatic group invites set up so you can rez right after you start renting. A number of my rentals are set up with individual groups so that no one else renting can come and return your objects, rez on your land or change anything. As for landscaping, all my rentals allow landscaping where the region allows it. All my rentals are charged weekly not monthly, I don't demand anyone to pay monthly and the few who have asked about paying monthly I have told all rentals are weekly due to the different number of days in months. I've never evicted someone before their rent ran out (aside from evicting with a refund upon request) and I have never sold land that was being rented by someone.

Just because you had bad experiences with a specific landlord doesn't mean all mainland rentals are bad.

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6 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

I don't understand how Prok could be here since 2004 and still have no idea how SL accounts work.

Strange but true...

Look at the official figures for Average IQ in the United Rebel Colonies on a state by state basis.

Figures show that the Average IQ in Ayn Rand Worshiping Republicrat voting states is typically 10-15 points lower that the Average IQ for the human race as a whole, and 15-20 points lower that places where most people are anarcho-commie-computer-techy Demopublican voting "libtards" of the Global Griefer Conspiracy to Destroy SL Madlands Business People.

...

Meanwhile, as to your question...

Search your feelings young Padawan, and the answer you will find...

 

Edited by Klytyna

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My tiny thread sure developed into...something!

To keep people updated: Last evening I build a small pool, placed a gazebo and brought a house to put on my lawn. It was quite a productive evening. Next big step is furnishing the whole thing, which will be fun, since I seem to have deleted most of the stuff I owned a couple of years ago...

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On 5/21/2018 at 5:00 PM, ChinRey said:

I never ever claimed I was entitled to anything here, just that I pay LL blood money for the privilege of having some land where I can build something that I - and hopefully a few others - might appreciate and for some basic services they hardly ever actually provide. And I don't usually shout or scream about my rentals, I hardly ever even mention or promote them at all. Almost all the tenants I have are people who dicovered the place on their own and liked it enough they wanted to stay.

I do actually think that Greater Coniston is special but not in the sense that it's better than anything else here, only that it's different. It's focused on context more than stand-alone shinies and it's designed to encourage (but not enforce) casual interaction between neighbors. Or to put it another way: It's made to emulate the "feel" of a real world place as closely as possible.

I do aknowledge that a concept like that is only of itnerest to a small minority of SL users. That is partly because people who come to SL with expectations in that direction won't find what they're looking for and leave pretty soon. But probably also because there isn't that big a demand for it anyway. But there still is a niche for that kind of Second Life. And that niche can only be filled on mainland and only by fairly large landowners - whether that landowner is a group or a single person doesn't really matter.

People who come to SL seeking solitude or formal role play or a home for their already closely knit group of friends should go for some private estate, with no risk of being interrupted by visiting strangers or other (pleasant or unpleasant) surprises. No doubt about that. And yes, most SL users probably belong to one of those categories. But not all.

What I do resent, are the sweeping statements, all those different variations of "mainland good, private estate bad" or "private estate good, mainland bad". Both are kaleidosocpes of different areas with very different qualities and there really is no uniform general description that applies to either.

Not sure I am disagreeing, but for clarity you don't have to be a large landowner to participate or enjoy those kind of communities. Conniston and the East River Community are just a few sims boat ride from a parcel I own. On the Atoll I am a short road trip from virtual soho, and any number of interesting locations and communities.

I have a rental on mainland at Fudo I can sail to Bay City from, off Nautilus I have a rental at Snug Harbor, with my own group.. a private estate connected to mainland. I can't effectively think of any difference between my land rights on the private parcel or the one rented on mainland. Both afford access to some wonderful communities Bay City for example from the first, Sailors Cove and all the mainland marinas from the other. The costs however are noticeably different with the mainland rental being much cheaper than the private rental. I love both and wouldn't give either up whilst I can afford them.

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On 5/21/2018 at 10:23 AM, Klytyna said:

There are plots in Kama City for example where you have no join/divide, people end up owning two separate plots side by side because they cannot join them, there are also areas in SL where landscaping the ground is either limited to a fee meters, or simply disallowed, so owners don't spoil the overall terrain of the region.

Yes, there are areas where you don't get join/divide or terraform rights. But if you buy two parcels in the same region, their prim quotas combine. So it's not so bad. I own two parcels side by side in Kama City. Works fine.

Areas which allow terraforming on small parcels tend to have ugly cliffs. There's abandoned land like that.

badterraforming_001.thumb.jpg.6e349e92cf9bb8da6931be80af17a4d8.jpg

Useless land, Corsica.

Parts of this area are abandoned. Some are for rent, but unrented. Between bad parcel-carving and bad terraforming, this land has been made useless.

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1 hour ago, animats said:

 Between bad parcel-carving and bad terraforming, this land has been made useless.

of course not

you can always smooth the edges/borders, or use prims/mesh additions to make the land flat or usable in other ways.

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