HOPE FOR DEVIN

[CarmenCardone]

It is amazing to me how uncaring people are being in this post.  Roy put a lot of effort and love into that sim and alls he is doing is trying to bring attention to it in hopes that he will get it back.  His tier was paid but the landlord closed it and he is not responding to anyone.  Roy did not start any post to do anything other than bring this to attention in hopes it might help him get his sim back. PickleflufferButternut you are wrong totally about Roy asking for money.  He was upset about it he was going to let it go and I am the one who originally donated money to him to start a new sim if that is what he wanted to do.  That sim is where they lived also and I thought the least I could do is perhaps give him some lindens to help them out.  he never bragged about anything.  He was overwhelmed that people wanted to help him.  You are misrepresenting Roy by saying things like that Pickle.  Since when do people not have the right to complain when they faithfully pay their tier and their whole sim is taken away from them?  Please do not criticize Roy because he is not using perfect English either.  His first language is German, I can't imagine me trying to respond in a foreign language forum in another language other than what I am used to.

Edited May 7, 2018 by CarmenCardone

[CarmenCardone]

I especially like how this page has entitled me a newbie.  I have been in second life for about ten years now and seen just about everything.  

[Skell Dagger]

6 minutes ago, CarmenCardone said:

I especially like how this page has entitled me a newbie.  I have been in second life for about ten years now and seen just about everything.  

You're a 'newbie' because - like so many people who are suddenly posting in this thread - you are new to the forums. That has nothing to do with how old your avatar is.

[CarmenCardone]

Yes I assumed that but still it would be nice if they had different titles.

 

[LittleMe Jewell]

11 minutes ago, CarmenCardone said:

Yes I assumed that but still it would be nice if they had different titles.

 

After 500 posts, you can change your title to whatever you want.

[LittleMe Jewell]

42 minutes ago, CarmenCardone said:

It is amazing to me how uncaring people are being in this post.  Roy put a lot of effort and love into that sim and alls he is doing is trying to bring attention to it in hopes that he will get it back.  His tier was paid but the landlord closed it and he is not responding to anyone.  Roy did not start any post to do anything other than bring this to attention in hopes it might help him get his sim back.

The vast majority of the people here are not "uncaring", but simply "realistic".  You need to realize the following:
- LL seldom reads the forums, thus pleas to them here is much like shouting into the wind.
- It truly is not an unusual situation to have a sim owner just up and shut things down without warning - sometimes due to finances, sometimes due to health, sometimes due to other RL issues, sometimes due to <insert-whatever-reason-you-want>
- If the owner has kept the sim up but simply denied access to everyone, there is pretty much nothing you can do except keep trying to contact them.  LL would consider it a resident-to-resident issue.
- If the sim owner gave the sim back or if LL claimed it due to money owed, then if enough of you submit support tickets "simply asking to have the sim reopened so you can get your stuff back", it MIGHT happen. If your tickets keep talking about LL keeping the sim open just because you want them to or if your tickets talk about anything else, the tickets will likely get closed as "resident-to-resident dispute".
- If all of you are happy to donate money, then either donate it to a person that you trust to get more land and pay the tier on it -- or all of you should become premium and donate your tier to a group that then can own some Mainland.  Then rebuild in your new location.

As unfortunate as it is, the reality is that you really can never fully trust anyone that you might be renting private estate land from.  If the sim owner still has control of the land, you can hope that your messages to them at least get you into the sim long enough to get your stuff.  If LL now has control of the sim, "carefully worded POLITE support tickets" might get the sim reopened long enough for folks to get there stuff.  That is truly the best you can hope for here.
 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

2 hours ago, Callie Hareshide said:

I would love to see Linden Lab to investigate what happened and maybe just change ownership of the sim because this is a very popular sim and many want to see it back. 

Umm, no.. They are not going to give ownership of a homestead to a random person.. You have to be premium and have a mainland sim as well. 

1 hour ago, CarmenCardone said:

It is amazing to me how uncaring people are being in this post.  Roy put a lot of effort and love into that sim and alls he is doing is trying to bring attention to it in hopes that he will get it back.  His tier was paid but the landlord closed it and he is not responding to anyone.  Roy did not start any post to do anything other than bring this to attention in hopes it might help him get his sim back. PickleflufferButternut you are wrong totally about Roy asking for money.  He was upset about it he was going to let it go and I am the one who originally donated money to him to start a new sim if that is what he wanted to do.  That sim is where they lived also and I thought the least I could do is perhaps give him some lindens to help them out.  he never bragged about anything.  He was overwhelmed that people wanted to help him.  You are misrepresenting Roy by saying things like that Pickle.  Since when do people not have the right to complain when they faithfully pay their tier and their whole sim is taken away from them?  Please do not criticize Roy because he is not using perfect English either.  His first language is German, I can't imagine me trying to respond in a foreign language forum in another language other than what I am used to.

We arent being uncaring, he is going about this the wrong way. LL will not get involved in user to user disputes. Posting here is nothing more than a huge WAAA WAAA look at me!!! 

If his first language is German, perhaps he should post in the German language area... Or, file a support ticket. Not sure how that would go though... "my landlord closed up shop and left SL, can i haz my landz bak?"

Go find another landlord and rent a homestead... 

[bebejee]

1 hour ago, CarmenCardone said:

It is amazing to me how uncaring people are being in this post.  Roy put a lot of effort and love into that sim and alls he is doing is trying to bring attention to it in hopes that he will get it back.  His tier was paid but the landlord closed it and he is not responding to anyone.  Roy did not start any post to do anything other than bring this to attention in hopes it might help him get his sim back. PickleflufferButternut you are wrong totally about Roy asking for money.  He was upset about it he was going to let it go and I am the one who originally donated money to him to start a new sim if that is what he wanted to do.  That sim is where they lived also and I thought the least I could do is perhaps give him some lindens to help them out.  he never bragged about anything.  He was overwhelmed that people wanted to help him.  You are misrepresenting Roy by saying things like that Pickle.  Since when do people not have the right to complain when they faithfully pay their tier and their whole sim is taken away from them?  Please do not criticize Roy because he is not using perfect English either.  His first language is German, I can't imagine me trying to respond in a foreign language forum in another language other than what I am used to.

Yes its a clique.

[Fionalein]

17 minutes ago, bebejee said:

Yes its a clique.

The Devin-ers are too, wanna share my popcorn? All relevant things have been said on the first 2 pages. Now people repeat themselves while spiraling down in aggression. Nothing good will happen in here from now on but it might at least get amusing . So far I kept myself from reporting it but my bets are this thread will soon reach a point where it becomes neccessary...

Will it have helped Devin? No way! Because now people will remember the place for the aggression it's regulars showed instead of it's beauty... good job your fanboys did there.

[Skell Dagger]

Allow me to paint a scene for you:

A pub full of people enjoying a drink or two. General chit-chat going on, people having a laugh and socialising.

Suddenly a man runs into the pub, crying out "Some idiot closed the local children's play area! The brewery MUST save the play area!" He runs from table to table, shoving a tablet under the pubgoers' noses, playing them videos of kiddies playing happily in the play area.

More people start running into the pub, yelling "THE BREWERY NEEDS TO SAVE THE PLAY AREA!"  "The kiddies will have nowhere to play!" "This cannot be allowed to happen!" They begin thrusting printouts of blog posts about the play area closure under the noses of the pubgoers.

One by one, the pubgoers make suggestions:

"Mate, we're just having a quiet drink. We can't do anything. If you want the brewery to save the play area... perhaps you should contact the brewery instead?"

"Why don't you pool resources and create a new play area elsewhere? I'm sure it could be done."

More people rush in. "SAVE THE PLAY AREA!"

More pubgoers chip in with useful suggestions, mainly along the lines of how the protestors can save or restore or rebuild the play area.  One guy (c'mon, there's always one!) makes a wisecrack, but most of the advice is nothing but helpful.

Another protestor runs in. "I can't believe how UNCARING everyone in this pub is! Also, I'm NOT underage!"

One pubgoer pipes up, "Yeah, I hate this pub."

Pints and beer bottles start to fly...

[Marianne Little]

13 hours ago, Roy Mildor said:

I totally agree !! We would  buy a  homestead sim right  tomorrow  if  we  would  not  be forced  to   buy a  full region first  .....  they really should change  this

What if you rethink it, since you can't get a Homestead and LL will not change the rules?

Work with what you CAN get.

I used to think Mainland was a hellhole filled with junk. It is amazing how I can find places with a nice neighborhood. And you, who need a large plot of land, simsize, I am willing to bet LL will sell you abandoned land directly. That is cheap.

And if you are afraid there will be annoying builds close to it, you have the benefit of owning big land, where it is much more easy to hide an eventual eyesore. You can build a much better border when you have distance to it. Sleazy builds on the plot next door is more a problem for us small land holders. Hell, maybe LL even have an empty Mainland sim. There, no risk of other builds ruining your vision and creativity.

Sixty-five premium members of your group who donate their land to you will work so you rent the land for free. That is probably too high a number to be realistic, but 30? That would cut the costs down.

And let us not forget that you get only 5000 prims on a Homestead. You get 22500 prims on a region! What could not a creative person like you do with it? Make neighborhoods for rent on a separate level. I know people will pay to rent a safari style cottage in the wilds. In beautiful Africa, wild zebras grazing outside. Use your furniture or let the renters have some prims to decorate with. You can write the contract just as you wish. Don't allow nightclubs, breedable animals, rezzers that spawn objects or businesses.

As I see from the map, people who use SL as a virtual home is not online all the time (some might be logged into their home 24/7, there is always one) so it will not be a huge strain on the sim. The avatar limit for a Homestead is 20, if you have 20 renters and they are all on the same time, the mainland region have 40 avatars on a sim all the time so there is still room for 20 visitors.

Of course there is the really unlikely risk that all the renters bring over a friend or one renter throw a birthday party with 39 friends. A thing that can happen once in a year or so. You can be a stern landlord and throw out the hypothetical renter who has a party every night. Since you are a good person you will of course give him a warning first. And if you have to throw him out, refund any rent he has paid in advance and return the stuff.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Marianne Little

[Marianne Little]

11 hours ago, CarmenCardone said:

I especially like how this page has entitled me a newbie.  I have been in second life for about ten years now and seen just about everything.  

Then you have seen this happen before, just this. People renting from another resident, investing a lot of time and emotion in their home, grow attached to it, and then the landowner just throw them out or disappears.

You KNOW this happens all the time, and does LL do anything for them?

We are simply saying that this is not uncommon, we sympathize with you all but we are realists.

[Marianne Little]

11 hours ago, CarmenCardone said:

Please do not criticize Roy because he is not using perfect English either.  His first language is German, I can't imagine me trying to respond in a foreign language forum in another language other than what I am used to.

Please do not twist what people say either. It is not about grammar or proper English, it is that this is the part of the forum where we post in English. The people who follow this tread post in English or post in another part of the forum.

English isn't my #1 language, I manage to use it well enough so people understand me. Or so I hope!

I got no comments on my grammar, I am sure I make mistakes but people are nice. It was one many years ago, that professor P... Pep? One out of so many. I just ignored him and took no offense. I tried to write better, that's all.

[lucagrabacr]

2 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

Sixty-five premium members of your group who donate their land to you will work so you rent the land for free.

*Sixty  just wanted to correct

Because groups get 10% land tier bonus from group donated tiers  

[Qie Niangao]

Just a quick scan through a very active thread, so I may have missed it: Has anybody filed a Support Case yet?

Until that Support Case is filed, it's at best a waste of time to post any more sentiments about this region.  Delay in filing that support case may diminish what can be done. Instead of posting here, Devin folks should clearly state in a support case what they want to achieve.

I can imagine it still may be useful to continue discussion in this thread about what to put in that Support Case to be most effective. Personally, from the sentiments I've seen here, the Devin folks don't seem ideally suited for a rental arrangement, which means either some Mainland or a Full (not Homestead) Estate sim owned directly. (Most Mainland regions can't be terraformed more than +/- 4m, so that may be a consideration if a precise replica of old Devin is wanted.)

13 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Umm, no.. They are not going to give ownership of a homestead to a random person.. You have to be premium and have a mainland sim as well. [*]

Right, the Lab won't interfere with the business of an existing Estate owner. I can imagine that, if the Estate is no longer solvent, the Lab may be willing to facilitate transfer of a region to another Estate, although I don't know they really do that. That said, the Lab should never discuss anything about the current sim Estate owner's business relationship with the Lab, as long as that relationship is in force. So there's no point asking whether the landlord's monthly fees are paid-up, nor anything like that. It might be helpful to mention willingness to be tenant of a different Estate if such transfer is possible, rather than have the region lost altogether.

I would just mention that all the sentiment that's been expressed here in fact weakens a possible negotiating position. The more support for the region, the less credible any risk of it not being recreated in some form somewhere in SL, even if nothing can be worked out to keep or transfer the current sim.

___________________
* A quibble: Homesteads are available only to Estate owners with at least one full-primmed sim; also, technically, Estate owners aren't required to be Premium.

 

 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

44 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

* A quibble: Homesteads are available only to Estate owners with at least one full-primmed sim; also, technically, Estate owners aren't required to be Premium.

 

 

If you have to have a full sim before you can get a homestead that in itself requires one to be premium... non premium members cant rent land from LL. 

[Paul Hexem]

6 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

If you have to have a full sim before you can get a homestead that in itself requires one to be premium... non premium members cant rent land from LL. 

Estates aren't the same as mainland. You can own an estate without being premium. Theoretically you can even pay for it with L$, depending on your account balance and limits.

[Ethan Paslong]

24 minutes ago, Gadget Portal said:

Theoretically you can even pay for it with L$, depending on your account balance and limits.

 billing says this..

Private Regions

As with all US$ transactions, Private Region (island) setup fees first bill against any US$ credit in your account and then against the payment method you have associated with buying land.

Doesn't mention L$,  if it's also payable in L$ the knowledgebase should get updated.

[Solar Legion]

27 minutes ago, Ethan Paslong said:

 billing says this..

Private Regions

As with all US$ transactions, Private Region (island) setup fees first bill against any US$ credit in your account and then against the payment method you have associated with buying land.

Doesn't mention L$,  if it's also payable in L$ the knowledgebase should get updated.

"depending on your account balance and limits."

That's the salient point - in other words, converting your Linden Dollar balance into US Dollars.

[PickleflufferButternut]

17 hours ago, CarmenCardone said:

It is amazing to me how uncaring people are being in this post.  Roy put a lot of effort and love into that sim and alls he is doing is trying to bring attention to it in hopes that he will get it back.  His tier was paid but the landlord closed it and he is not responding to anyone.  Roy did not start any post to do anything other than bring this to attention in hopes it might help him get his sim back. PickleflufferButternut you are wrong totally about Roy asking for money.  He was upset about it he was going to let it go and I am the one who originally donated money to him to start a new sim if that is what he wanted to do.  That sim is where they lived also and I thought the least I could do is perhaps give him some lindens to help them out.  he never bragged about anything.  He was overwhelmed that people wanted to help him.  You are misrepresenting Roy by saying things like that Pickle.  Since when do people not have the right to complain when they faithfully pay their tier and their whole sim is taken away from them?  Please do not criticize Roy because he is not using perfect English either.  His first language is German, I can't imagine me trying to respond in a foreign language forum in another language other than what I am used to.

Clearly, you can't read but that is ok. I said he TOOK the money that was donated to him.  And i never said anything about his language.  Did you even read my post?  Lets get something clear, what i see as boasting may not be what you think is boasting. Did he post about how people were giving him money? YES he did. Did others post about getting money in that same group. WHY YES THEY DID. Did they post on every group on FB about this stupid sim? YES THEY DID. Have countless people telling all of you what you need to do, how to do it, the fact you are NEVER EVER getting it back? YES they have. do any of you listen? NO YOU DON"T.  All you guys are doing is crying constantly about it acting like you are the only group this ever happened to and if he was smart, which clearly non of you are, you need to listen when people tell you to BUY YOUR OWN SIM so this won't happen. God, smarten up. Really. Stop crying and trying to have people feel so sorry for you. NO ONE DOES AND YOU ARE NOT GETTING IT BACK!!  

[Ethan Paslong]

17 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

That's the salient point - in other words, converting your Linden Dollar balance into US Dollars.

i don't agree, the statement was

1 hour ago, Gadget Portal said:

Theoretically you can even pay for it with L$, depending on your account balance and limits.

and thats not possible, it only speaks about the USD balance, and that's only infuenced by the limits when you'r are a new starter at the lindex. It will never touch your L$ but bill your CC or Paypal/Skrill.

[Solar Legion]

Just now, Ethan Paslong said:

i don't agree, the statement was

and thats not possible, it only speaks about the USD balance, and that's only infuenced by the limits when you'r are a new starter at the lindex. It will never touch your L$ but bill your CC or Paypal/Skrill.

That's nice.

The quoted statement refers to converting Linden Dollars to US Dollars. It does not refer to or even remotely infer directly paying Linden Lab with Linden Dollars.

If that is not how you parsed his statement, that is on you.

[Ethan Paslong]

3 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

If that is not how you parsed his statement, that is on you.

the statement is open for several interpretations. If one wants to be clear it should be so.

And thats on you.

[Solar Legion]

2 minutes ago, Ethan Paslong said:

the statement is open for several interpretations. If one wants to be clear it should be so.

And thats on you.

No, it really isn't.

"Theoretically you can even pay for it with L$, depending on your account balance and limits."

That is quite clear when taken as a whole: In theory you can use your Linden Dollar balance to pay for a Private Region provided your account possesses enough and your conversion limits are not overly restricted.

Nowhere is the direct payment for a Region to Linden Lab using Linden Dollars even so much as implied.

That implication exists in one place - your mind.

Have a nice day, Ethan.

[Dakota Linden]

Greetings!

I am sorry to hear that land that has been worked on diligently is not accessible.

Since the land is Estate Land, all issues with accessing the land must be addressed with the Estate Owner directly.  

As some have pointed out, a user may purchase an Estate Island directly from Linden Lab, or the user may purchase land in an existing Mainland Region and rebuild the environment. 

While the optimal resolution would be access to the existing Estate Land, Linden Lab cannot assist users with resolving the issue. 

If you have rented land from the Estate Owner and you wish to access your content to return it to your own inventory, please submit a Support Case so that we can work directly with you on recovering your owned content. 

Since this issue is about Land, I am going to move this thread to the Land General Discussion Forum.