Hunting for Distinctive Outfit IN-WORLD

[Callum Meriman]

Just now, Drake1 Nightfire said:

I realize this is going to sound really odd coming from a guy with a copyrighted icon... 

;-) I refrained from mentioning it. And I do agree with the whole MP thing.

BUT

ON the same hand I strongly believe people should be able to worship their idols for their own use. It irks me, even as someone who is so protective of creators rights, that the audience is being locked out of personal use by the mega-corporations, including my ex-employer, a certain house of mouse.

Legally your Icon is wrong, I don't see it is morally.

Stealing isn't stealing isn't stealing in cosplay situations, but cosplay is something you make yourself for your own use, and that alone. Not for sale, even at $0.

[So Whimsy]

1 hour ago, Callum Meriman said:

I am very much in favour of creators rights so nobody should profit from other's works, but I also believe fans should not be locked out from worshipping their idols. So I am curious Syn, leaving aside the absolute correctness of not linking to IP theft items in the MP... how do you feel about Cosplay?

I have never, nor will I ever cosplay. That aside, if your use is non-commercial, or it comments on/criticizes the original work, or is used to educate others, then it's not copyright infringement but falls under fair use. While it could be argued that dressing up as Dr. Strange in SL is cosplay, the merchant is selling the outfit thereby profiting off it so that cosplay no longer falls under fair use and is copyright theft. Buying these cosplays is supporting copyright theft. If the outfit was 0 Linden then I would concede at this point but that's not the case here.

Since I am unfamiliar with the whole cosplay scene (other than the google search I just did on its legal ramifications and the impression I got that most if not all cosplayers create their own cosplay and do not buy it premade) that is all I will say on the matter. Apples and oranges here.

I am however very familiair with SL after 11 years, as a user, as a customer and as a merchant myself so I feel confident to call people out on their BS on this little corner of the web.

[Fionalein]

1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

I personally feel all of these ripped from game avs should be pulled from the MP. 

True, unless they aquired a license... for some companies that seems as easy as an E-Mail... (but then it would not be "ripped" anymore anyways)

Edited May 6, 2018 by Fionalein

[Zeta Vandyke]

I agree if you break the law and get caught you pay the consequences. I just don't agree on the whole "stealing is stealing and its all exactly the same" black and white mindset. Many people break the law without even knowing it. Are they the same as someone who breaks in a house and steals something? I have had someone break in my company, over 50k euro's damage and stolen wares. If I would have the guy who did that in my hands I would probably be arrested for breaking some laws after being done with him. Though when I saw someone using a photo I made on their website that they did not ask or pay for, I did not even bother to mention it. Both stole from me, but its not the same.

For example, the banners many people use for their marketplace link, like Drake or Syn. Are you 100% sure the font you used is free to use for commercial purposes? Or maybe the free photo editor or filter you used to create it in or make your product pictures in, is it also free when used for business ends? Maybe the little flowers in her banner, are they copied from a picture on the internet? All the files from your marketplace shop, maybe you archived them on your PC using the free Winrar or Winzip tool. But oh my, that's not allowed to be used commercial purposes either! You have to buy the license!  Your in world store, that lovely radio stream your playing, did you also check the license model of that? All some random examples that might not apply to you, but happens all the time.

And Drake's copyrighted profile picture, could say its not being used in a commercial way, but each post you make with it you also use to advertise your marketplace link in your signature? I could not care less, but maybe strictly to the letter of the law that could be seen as breaking copyright?

 

[So Whimsy]

2 hours ago, Zeta Vandyke said:

For example, the banners many people use for their marketplace link, like Drake or Syn. Are you 100% sure the font you used is free to use for commercial purposes? Or maybe the free photo editor or filter you used to create it in or make your product pictures in, is it also free when used for business ends? Maybe the little flowers in her banner, are they copied from a picture on the internet? All the files from your marketplace shop, maybe you archived them on your PC using the free Winrar or Winzip tool. But oh my, that's not allowed to be used commercial purposes either! You have to buy the license!  Your in world store, that lovely radio stream your playing, did you also check the license model of that? All some random examples that might not apply to you, but happens all the time.

 

- The font is free for commercial use
- I use a paid for, licensed, legal version of my graphics programm that allows commercial use
- The little flowers are tubes made specifically for my programm, the person I got them from allows commerical use
- I do not use winrar or winzip. I use the normal windows folders to archive everything.
- I have a radio stream? Huh, must have been from the previous owner I bought the parcel from, I always have SL muted and no need for that as I am extremely picky about what I listen to. I need to check that tab in the about land of my other parcel as well in case there's a radio stream there, too from the previous owner that I am not aware of. Thank you for pointing that out though, I'll get rid of it immediately.

 

I do agree that there grey areas here and I do not see things as black and white as you think I do. I personally draw the line though when someone directly profits off someone elses work, whether it is by copybotting or copyright theft. So what if Marvel makes billions? You do know Robin Hood wasn't the good guy right? (Neither was 'Beast' in the Beauty & The Beast but that'd take everything way off topic.)

Fact of the matter is, if that creator spent hours making that outfit and then put it on the MP for 0L it'd be okay, but they make cash from it, considering Infinity Wars just dropped and everything Marvel is currently once again extremely popular I do believe the creator makes more than just pocket change from these type of items. That is not okay and should not be supported because if people support stealing from rich corporations here on SL then people will take that as a justification to steal from poor people, too. Hence copybotting gets more and more justified.

 

There is plenty of consumers in SL already who think along the lines of 'well the dress was 300L, that's too much, so I am buying it for 50L off this shady person knowing full well its ripped content but its the creators fault for making their stuff so expensive!'.

[Magnek Fang]

I'll just leave this here:

Tv Tropes: Fanwork Ban

[Zeta Vandyke]

1 hour ago, Syn Anatine said:

I do agree that there grey areas here and I do not see things as black and white as you think I do. I personally draw the line though when someone directly profits off someone elses work, whether it is by copybotting or copyright theft. So what if Marvel makes billions? You do know Robin Hood wasn't the good guy right? (Neither was 'Beast' in the Beauty & The Beast but that'd take everything way off topic.)

I think this is a fine line to be drawn. And like I said before, its not that I completely disagree, I just thought the statement was way to black and white. Myself, I draw the line when its hurting someone. In the case of Marvel (owned by Disney), who does not make anything in SL themselves I still know it is copyright theft, or even a form of copybot (since they probably copy the mesh model from a game or so) but it does not bother me to much.

When someone does it with items that are already being created and sold in SL, I do mind. They are hurting someones business. I would not buy from them and report them. Thats my point of view, not the 100% correct one, but I like grey areas

 

[So Whimsy]

1 minute ago, Zeta Vandyke said:

I think this is a fine line to be drawn. And like I said before, its not that I completely disagree, I just thought the statement was way to black and white. Myself, I draw the line when its hurting someone. In the case of Marvel (owned by Disney), who does not make anything in SL themselves I still know it is copyright theft, or even a form of copybot (since they probably copy the mesh model from a game or so) but it does not bother me to much.

When someone does it with items that are already being created and sold in SL, I do mind. They are hurting someones business. I would not buy from them and report them. Thats my point of view, not the 100% correct one, but I like grey areas

 

The point though is, you're applying double standards here and that's never a good thing. There's people left and right on SL already justifying the purchase of ripped content whether that's ripped from movies/games or other creators doesn't matter. It's a domino effect, if stealing from big corporations who won't care about a couple thousand dollars is starting to be seen as okay by the general SL population than it won't stop there but vastly continue to trickle down and it will be more and more merchants suffer.

We've heard it so much that merchants contineuously have to file DMCA's, that will keep increasing. Heck, this entire topic helps it increase as there's so many supporters of theft speaking up here justifying that it's okay if the one hurting is 'loaded'. Do you get now why I am so passionate about this? I don't care for Marvel or Dr. Strange, but I care for SL creators who are already affected and will be further affected the more the mindset sets in that its 'not that bad'.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

37 minutes ago, Zeta Vandyke said:

I think this is a fine line to be drawn. And like I said before, its not that I completely disagree, I just thought the statement was way to black and white. Myself, I draw the line when its hurting someone. In the case of Marvel (owned by Disney), who does not make anything in SL themselves I still know it is copyright theft, or even a form of copybot (since they probably copy the mesh model from a game or so) but it does not bother me to much.

When someone does it with items that are already being created and sold in SL, I do mind. They are hurting someones business. I would not buy from them and report them. Thats my point of view, not the 100% correct one, but I like grey areas

 

So, if its hurting a corporation you dont give a damn, but if it hurts a big merchant in SL you do... Talk about hypocrisy at its finest.. 

[Zeta Vandyke]

1 minute ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

So, if its hurting a corporation you dont give a damn, but if it hurts a big merchant in SL you do... Talk about hypocrisy at its finest.. 

That's not what I typed.

But besides that yeah, I am probably a bit hypocrite, also have double standards here and there, and I have a lot more of those general human traits.

[So Whimsy]

11 minutes ago, Zeta Vandyke said:

That's not what I typed.

That is exactly what you typed though whether you meant to or not.

Being human is no excuse for deliberate screw ups, being human is an excuse for the accidental ones.

[Zeta Vandyke]

Nope, I typed I draw the line if someone gets hurt by it. In the case of Marvel not having any business in SL and thus not get its business hurt by someone selling ***** in SL I dont care about it. I'm not advertising for it, i'm not buying it, I just don't care about it.

And I'm just saying I'm not holier than the pope. I pay for everything I use for my business, but at my private home PC i surely have software that I might not have the license for. I pay for my movies and series (Netflix, Apple TV, and other services) but if there's a series I really want to see and its in no way available in this country due to rights, I do download it. And theres more examples like that. Does that make me a hypocrite and have double standards? Probably yeah. Do I feel bad about it? Nope not really.

[Sparky Linden]

As this topic has strayed from it's origins I am just gonna close it up

Edited May 6, 2018 by Sparky Linden