A Very Strange Thing Happening

[Drake1 Nightfire]

8 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Then one day you discover by accident that you've dropped so many items INTO prims, that the system cannot actually cope with the contents well enough to drag them out again, and that all your ranting about inventory theft has been due to you TOTALLY FAILING to learn how to use BASIC FEATURES of the "LL Inferiority Viewer" you love so much, despite having been here for more than a decade.

And yet, they tout how long they have been in SL as a strong point as to how much they know.. And somehow they still keep dragging textures onto prims, rather than the object they wanted.. 

 

14 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

But if you have thousands of household objects for decoration, because if you are hunting for something by name, sometimes what happens, the creator has put a picture of that item in a texture with that same name. So you think you are grabbing THE ITEM and NOT THE PICTURE.

Perhaps they need stronger bifocals.. I mean..  looks nothing like ... Even my 16 year old daughter, who just joined a month ago has NEVER THOUGHT THEY WERE THE SAME!!!

Edited May 5, 2018 by Drake1 Nightfire

[Madelaine McMasters]

2 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

And yet, they tout how long they have been in SL as a strong point as to how much they know.

“With age comes wisdom, but sometimes age comes alone.” - Oscar Wilde

[Coffee Pancake]

4 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Even my 16 year old daughter, who just joined a month ago has NEVER THOUGHT THEY WERE THE SAME!!!

Whoa whoa time out.

You let your own 16 year old daughter join SL ? 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

15 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Whoa whoa time out.

You let your own 16 year old daughter join SL ? 

Yes, why? She can't go anywhere but G sims and we supervise her use. Also, MY daughter, MY decision. She is learning Blender in school and this is a very very good way for her to apply it to SL as well. 

[Ethan Paslong]

1 hour ago, CoffeeDujour said:

You let your own 16 year old daughter join SL ? 

• 16-17 years old you can access regions and search results that have a General maturity rating.
• 13-15 years old, you can access Second Life through an affiliated organization and will be restricted to the private estate of that organization. Only avatars approved by that organization will be able to enter these estates. You can't use Second Life search or purchase items from the Marketplace.

 

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Teens_in_Second_Life

[Prokofy Neva]

On 5/4/2018 at 5:32 PM, CoffeeDujour said:

As anyone who has tried to copy a couple of dozen items into a prim in a single action will tell you, no, that's not whats happened here because that is technically impossible.

You have accidentally dragged and dropped your stuff into your floor repeatedly over a long period of time. There is no other way this can happen. 

No. That's not true. Because there was nothing in this block at all. 

There is no way to "drag and drop" things from inventory into a prim unless you have a script in that prim that enables it. I don't.

You'd have to consciously open up the contents in "edit" mode and then drag. I didn't.

I don't use ctr drag. I drag by um, dragging -- from inventory, into a prim in "edit mode".

There is no way that I could have done this once, let alone hundreds of times. Why? Because nothing was in the prim.

Then hundreds of things all of a sudden were. I discovered this while trying to change the numbers on the prim to fit with another prim on the deck.

You don't "accidentally" drag hundreds of things, hundreds of times.

@Qie -- yes, I get it that you have the lock on "recent". But that's not the case. It's not on recent. 

After reloading and retrying a dozen times, I finally got one non-copy item to move. Then it stopped working. It buffers and doesn't load, or if it does finally load, you can't drag out of the inventory into NOT recent but regular.

That lets you know something is "up".

@Klyta No, I don't hold ctr down. I realize that techies think this is "normal" and "habitual" but the rest of us never use it. Ever.

When I lost the 15,000 inventory items, as I copiously already described, it wasn't that I "suddenly noticed" or "eventually noticed" they were missing.

I got an error message first, telling me my trash was so overloaded, that I had better empty it. I had never, ever had a message like that.

It was very odd -- I hadn't put anything in trash in the last while. I didn't drag any folders anywhere. All of a sudden, out of nowhere, I got this message. So I decided that there must be some "real" problem. And since I didn't think I had anything in trash that I couldn't delete, I obeyed this Linden Lab message coming from their software, odd as it was.

Then I realized that an entire folder and its sub folder was missing, and I saw my inventory count. Even after relogging and clearing cache several times, it didn't come back.

This all occurred on the sim of Alston where my office is. So naturally, when I see thousands of things in a big block on my deck even a year later -- yes, that's the other thing, a long passage of time -- I wonder -- could this be my lost inventory. It wasn't there before. It's on the same sim. And sure, in that span of time, the servers would have been cleared a milion times. Or would they? Did something about going into the cloud jumble up inventory and put it in another prim?

I ask that question scientifically, looking for answers amid the inevitable insults and crazy you get here, because then I saw it HAPPENED AGAIN on another sim, with another prim, with copyable inventory that I definitely never put in that prim (vacuum cleaners on no copy put into a desk??? Why???)

This is not about "not learning to use" a browser I've used for 15 years. It's about questioning software that doesn't work, and has bugs.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

On 5/5/2018 at 7:18 AM, Drake1 Nightfire said:

And yet, they tout how long they have been in SL as a strong point as to how much they know.. And somehow they still keep dragging textures onto prims, rather than the object they wanted.. 

 

Perhaps they need stronger bifocals.. I mean..  looks nothing like ... Even my 16 year old daughter, who just joined a month ago has NEVER THOUGHT THEY WERE THE SAME!!!

It's too bad they don't have the teen grid, because that's where teens should be kept, not allowed even into G on adult SL.

My bifocals work just fine. It's about seeing letters and not focusing on the icon, that's all, when you have a whole list of things by the same creator. 

[Whirly Fizzle]

8 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

You don't "accidentally" drag hundreds of things, hundreds of times.

All it takes is one mis-drag on a full folder - you don't have to have ctrl held down to drag a folder into the contents of an object, also you don't need a script in the prim to drag your own stuff into the prim.

Try it!

https://gyazo.com/554967e73ae045dcb1e24a22b667c10a

[Prokofy Neva]

Yes, but all of these things were in DIFFERENT folders. So it would take dragging them mistakenly dozens or more times. It's not even the case that these were "all" in that one mega folder with sub-folders that I once had, which is now my LOST INVENTORY. They were in different folders, some from the makers.

Yes, I realize folders disappear after dragging, or at least others claim this.

But the items were in different master folders. So it makes no sense that they were all dragged mistakenly so many times.

And again -- there is no script, not ctr usage -- but no opening up of edit either.

In order to "mistakenly drag," you still have to consciously open up a prim, if it has no "receive objects" script, and in edit mode, drag something to it. I'd have no reason to open up a big block that was the floor of an office. The only reason I noticed it later was because I was fiddling with its numbers in edit mode. Then I happened to look at the contents, and said "WOW".

Furthermore, I will remind you the conditions of the other mishap:

1) a gatcha item removed from its box and put inworld once.

2) that item -- a desk -- was returned to inventory.

3) It was then re-rezzed in world, and I noticed then it had items inside of it.

4) I couldn't possibly have put those items in that desk. Any item rezzed on or near that desk, or dragged from inventory "mistakenly" while doing that room on that sim, was NOT what wa inside that desk.

5) Instead, what was inside that desk was a set of vacuum cleaners, all from the maker's folder, which were rezzed months ago on another sim, in another house, and not re-rezzed again or accessed again, such as to be "mistakenly" dragged.

So again, if you don't open up a prim to "edit" and don't drag in deliberately or even "mistakenly," you have to remain curious as to how prims get inside another object.

And the hypothesis is that they get there by jumbling on a server. 

Edited May 6, 2018 by Prokofy Neva

[Whirly Fizzle]

7 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

In order to "mistakenly drag," you still have to consciously open up a prim, if it has no "receive objects" script, and in edit mode, drag something to it.

You don't, that's the thing.
Try this: Rez a default box.
Make a test folder in inventory that has a few no copy items in it.
Drag the folder from your inventory onto the box - you'll see the box highlighted in white (on the LL viewer).
Let go of the left mouse button.
All your no copy items in that inventory folder will be moved into the box contents.

Edit to add:  It's horribly easy to do, I've done it by accident myself lots of times which is why I'm now in the habit of locking my rez platforms.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Whirly Fizzle

[Buttacwup Float]

As someone who spends an awful lot of time sorting inventory, opening and sorting gachas, and more or less living on a simple platform in the sky most of the time, I can assure you that it is deceptively simple to drop items into a prim. Making sure everything around is properly locked is your best defense. No special anything required. It happens with the same easy that folders can be accidentally dragged into other folders just in inventory. There is no magic to this, when items end up in a prim, someone put them there. 

Edited May 6, 2018 by seanabrady
typo

[Whirly Fizzle]

Prok, did you manage to get your no copy stuff out of that prim?

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

After reloading and retrying a dozen times, I finally got one non-copy item to move. Then it stopped working. It buffers and doesn't load, or if it does finally load, you can't drag out of the inventory into NOT recent but regular.

Ah, okay. I think this answers the question: the object just has so much stuff in its Contents that it takes the sim an unreasonable amount of time to tell the viewer enough details for it to know what operations are supported. I've seen this, and that threshold of "unreasonable" seems to vary from one situation to another. I usually see it when it simply won't let me open a script -- but that's only because I spend so much time interacting with scripts; I'm sure the same thing happens when trying to drag items from object Contents to agent Inventory.

I don't want to try anything that could make a bad situation worse, but if all else fails, it may actually help to add a script to that object's Contents, which script would try to give you the other items the object contains, one at a time. Kind of a special "unpacking" script for your object.

Just typing that made me wonder: are there already scripts inside that object? It would seem a minor miracle if it didn't end up with one that added some shopkeeper's hovertext -- or something much, much worse.

[Prokofy Neva]

@Qie No there aren't any scripts as I mentioned. I've scrolled through the whole thing -- no scripts. 

But this gives me an idea -- I'll take the block to an empty sandbox and try there, as this is a busy and crowded sim where I am, with the fishing game and my office.

You've also had another brilliant idea -- which is to PUT a dispensing script in it where it will keep giving me at least one thing at a time randomly. 

[Coffee Pancake]

24 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

You've also had another brilliant idea -- which is to PUT a dispensing script in it where it will keep giving me at least one thing at a time randomly. 

You want Sequentially, not randomly! 

[Prokofy Neva]

@CoffeeDujour it doesn't matter. You do realize, being a scientist, that either way, it could in theory deliver everything eventually?

[Fionalein]

7 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

@CoffeeDujour it doesn't matter. You do realize, being a scientist, that either way, it could in theory deliver everything eventually?

Yeah in theory it could, even on first try. But unless you also delete the given item's copies inside, it could go on forever and not give you all (doesn't apply to "no copy" items of course).

[Whirly Fizzle]

LL filed a feature request after seeing this thread.
BUG-216248 - Feature - Require holding Control key to drag folders into in world objects

[Prokofy Neva]

@Whirly I think that could get to be a nuisance. And again, this event isn't about me accidentally or on purpose dragging hundreds of items in different folders into a prim. I realize that no one will believe me, but in due course, they will see it and then they will look back at this as an early report. 

[Coffee Pancake]

I look forward to a reports and reproductions of items transferring themselves in bulk between inventory and nearby prims without direct user action. Of course, such a bug would no doubt not be picky about which prims the inventory was dumped into... Although maybe we all need to come and stand on your build prim for a couple of weeks, just to be sure.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

7 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

@Whirly I think that could get to be a nuisance. And again, this event isn't about me accidentally or on purpose dragging hundreds of items in different folders into a prim. I realize that no one will believe me, but in due course, they will see it and then they will look back at this as an early report. 

One would think this would have effected Somebody else by now... If it truly is a bug and not user error. This is the first anyone is hearing of it, in 15 years. Logically speaking, a bug hits more than just one person out of millions of users over the years. 

[Prokofy Neva]

17 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

One would think this would have effected Somebody else by now... If it truly is a bug and not user error. This is the first anyone is hearing of it, in 15 years. Logically speaking, a bug hits more than just one person out of millions of users over the years. 

They will be along eventually, as they were with the trash bug. I look at objects and edit them more than most people.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

22 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

They will be along eventually, as they were with the trash bug. I look at objects and edit them more than most people.

What makes you think that? I edit just about every single thing i buy. With an inventory over 100K I can say i DO open and edit things more than most. I have NEVER had this happen. Gods you are so self absorbed. 

[Alwin Alcott]

3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

They will be along eventually, as they were with the trash bug. I look at objects and edit them more than most people.

i think you'r secretly the official designated bug tester for LL.

Does it get paid?