A Very Strange Thing Happening

[Prokofy Neva]

I have never seen this in SL before, and now that it has happened twice, I have to ask if others had it happen. You know what they say in "Moscow Rules": 

"Once is an accident. Twice is a coincidence. Three times is an enemy action."
 

So some of you may recall I lost 15,000 items from inventory in what I firmly believe is a "trash bug" but which of course Lindens and friends tend to think is a "user error". No matter. Those puppies are gone. Very sad, given those rare gatchas.

So I have this giant block that forms the base of my office in Alston. I do editing of other things on it often because as a prim, it doesn't "bounce" like mesh. My main error with it is to pull things from inventory that I don't realize are a texture and then the entire thing is re-textured and has to be done over. ANYWAY!

All of this is by way of saying sure, I could make a mistake and put another object inside this giant block by mistake. Sure, maybe it could even be a folder.

But I discovered there are hundreds -- thousands? -- of objects inside this block. It takes minutes to load. And no, they aren't in a folder or folders. And no, they don't appear to be my lost inventory -- there aren't 15,000 items, although there are some single-copy gatchas I don't have in inventory -- maybe it is part of my lost inventory? But my lost inventory was in multiple folders, and there are no folders showing in this big block.

Weird, eh? How did that happen? I tried deleting the items or moving them to inventory and a little lock appears on them -- they won't move. I try relogging; I try taking the block back into inventory and putting it out again, nothing. OK, One of Those Things.

Then it happens AGAIN.

I had a furnished room with the iSpy gatcha set and the customer didn't want all the items. I put them back in inventory. Then they moved on and it was time to re-furnish it. I take the desk out, which is a single-copy item. As this set had little tricky things in it (even a kind of puzzle to solve), I wondered if the desk had something that opened or "did something" as it seemed like a hand formed over it, which happens when you can click on something because there's a script in it. (As it happens, no it doesn't, and it was another item that did that, the coins.)

So I look in the contents, and inside this desk object are...dozens of vacuum cleaners. They're all those different coloured RC Cluster vacuum cleaners, no transfer.

Huh? There is NO WAY I put those in there. I had never even examined the item before. The vacuum cleaners I once took out, but on another sim, and unrelated to these MadPea iSpy items. 

I had never even looked at the desk before, literally it was put out once, taken from its package, then put back in inventory. Again, I couldn't have possibly put dozens of vacuum cleaners inside of it, it makes no sense. They don't even dispense -- to me, even. It's just plain WEIRD.

So what this means is that items somehow get intermingled in inventory. How or why I have no idea. These aren't even the same creators or even in the same folders or even related in any way. But they are in my inventory, even if in different folders, so maybe that is all that it takes for a "mix-up". Maybe a sim gets re-set, there's a jumble?

This time, I could get the vacuum cleaners deleted out of the desk (!) but there weren't that many, i.e. not hundreds like in the big deck.

So, weird, huh?

Edited May 3, 2018 by Prokofy Neva

[Callum Meriman]

Sounds like you have a very bad habit of dragging folders around in your inventory while you hold your Ctrl key down.

And yes, folders are lost when you do this and let go of the mouse, and they drop into a prim/object.

Seriously, with all the trouble you have with edit (the box inexplicably moving about on it's own, now dropping folders into prims), have you considered trying/buying a new keyboard? Sounds like you have gummed up the keys with cheetos dust and bagel crumbs.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Callum Meriman

[LittleMe Jewell]

You truly have some of the oddest inventory issues.

Prokofy's evil inventory gremlin has struck again.

[Nalates Urriah]

The 'Inventory Trash' problem causing disappearing inventory was common enough that the Lindens put some projects on hold and installed additional data reporting in an attempt to find the problem. Some changes were made and even Firestorm changed some things in their viewer.

Callum makes a reasonable, if ecky, guess. As this seems to be a problem specific to you, I suggest you change how you are working. Do something different and see if the problem goes away. Since you grab textures and drop them on the building foundation... that says a lot about how you are working with inventory and have it arranged. 

With the building foundation... put a clear cube over it. Having it a couple of mm above the floor should not make a visible offset for things rezzed. When you do drop a texture on it, you'll only need to redo one texture.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

On 5/2/2018 at 10:14 PM, Callum Meriman said:

Sounds like you have a very bad habit of dragging folders around in your inventory while you hold your Ctrl key down.

And yes, folders are lost when you do this and let go of the mouse, and they drop into a prim/object.

Seriously, with all the trouble you have with edit (the box inexplicably moving about on it's own, now dropping folders into prims), have you considered trying/buying a new keyboard? Sounds like you have gummed up the keys with cheetos dust and bagel crumbs.

Um, no. Because I never, ever hold my control key down.

So much for your theory.

My keyboard is cleaned regularly.

So much for your theory.

The edit box opens over the prims -- this is a bug in LL's software.

[Prokofy Neva]

12 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

The 'Inventory Trash' problem causing disappearing inventory was common enough that the Lindens put some projects on hold and installed additional data reporting in an attempt to find the problem. Some changes were made and even Firestorm changed some things in their viewer.

Callum makes a reasonable, if ecky, guess. As this seems to be a problem specific to you, I suggest you change how you are working. Do something different and see if the problem goes away. Since you grab textures and drop them on the building foundation... that says a lot about how you are working with inventory and have it arranged. 

With the building foundation... put a clear cube over it. Having it a couple of mm above the floor should not make a visible offset for things rezzed. When you do drop a texture on it, you'll only need to redo one texture.

 

The inventory trash thing was real, the Lindens did some things, and people like you acknowledge this. But of course, along the way, those of us who suffered this, and tried to publicized it, got endlessly ridiculed, and for no reason.

Callum is just exhibiting the usual hostility to me and making up ridiculous reasons for this -- as I noted, I don't even use "holding down control" so that's stupid.

Putting a texture on a thing is not the same thing as *opening up a content of a prim in edit, and putting hundreds of objects in it, with no folders, which are in different folders*. You see the problem.

The reason I mentioned the texture thing is that I am scientific about this. I say, hmm, if I am prone to error, perhaps I've done something. Let me look at this. Let me look at that. But then by the SAME scientific method I say, but this wasn't done, i.e. the prim wasn't even opened in edit mode; but these items are all in different folders, so to drag them all in would take enormous numbers of conscious, individual actions, not an accident.

Furthermore, if those items were put in by a "normal" process, how come you can't get them OUT? You can see them, but can't drag them into inventory or delete them. That would suggest some kind of weird server glitch, corrupted files doing this.

I appreciate your suggestion, but it makes no sense. Why put another prim over a prim? If the thing gets the wrong texture, you just go find its original texture and slap it down. The only advantage your idea might have is that if you didn't want to keep doing that, you could stack up a bunch of clear covers, then each time you made the mistake, just delete it, leaving the clear one below it to show the regular texture.

But why? When it takes a second to put down that original texture again.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Prokofy Neva

[Drake1 Nightfire]

How do you not know whether an item in your inventory is a texture or not? the icons are all different for each thing, objects are cubes, clothing has a little picture of the layer it is, textures are a pixelated square, and pictures are a well, picture. 

2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I appreciate your suggestion, but it makes no sense. Why put another prim over a prim? If the thing gets the wrong texture, you just go find its original texture and slap it down. The only advantage your idea might have is that if you didn't want to keep doing that, you could stack up a bunch of clear covers, then each time you made the mistake, just delete it, leaving the clear one below it to show the regular texture.

But why? When it takes a second to put down that original texture again.

if you set the transparency to 100% you will never see a texture on it... How long have you been in SL again? Do you do nothing but attack LL or do you actually DO anything in SL? Dear gods that was learned in prim textureing 101. 

[Solar Legion]

The edit box opens where it was last set - period. Your issue with it is one that very few users (if any) ever have and is on your end - period.

Just like your current issue: Items do not vanish from your inventory and magically insert themselves into a Prim without some input from the user. That is on your end and your end alone - just like many of your problems.

[Whirly Fizzle]

Why don't you lock that block?
That will stop any accidental drag & drop texturing or dropping items/folders into the task inventory.
Edit block -> Object tab -> Tick "Locked"

[Whirly Fizzle]

Another thought - make sure you didn't accidentally drop an LLAllowInventoryDrop script into that block.
This will allow anyone to put items in it's task inventory.

[Coffee Pancake]

Dragging a folder from inventory onto a prim will put the contents of that folder into the prim. No need to hold CTRL .. just drag and oooopth-butter-fingers. But in your case I'm 100% sure this is actually communist left-wing "enemy action".

12 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

The edit box opens over the prims -- this is a bug in LL's software.

NO. IT DOES NOT. It opens where you placed it last. Video from stock LL client. -> https://imgur.com/a/mzbQI0Q

Edited May 4, 2018 by CoffeeDujour

[Whirly Fizzle]

I found that block on Alston - it's certainly packed full of stuff, most of it no copy including a few rare gachas

On 5/3/2018 at 1:57 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

I tried deleting the items or moving them to inventory and a little lock appears on them -- they won't move.

Right click the block -> Open & copy the items to inventory.
It's so full of stuff it may take a few attempts to get everything copied back into inventory - most important is you get those no copy items back into your inventory.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

8 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Dragging a folder from inventory onto a prim will put the contents of that folder into the prim. No need to hold CTRL .. just drag and oooopth-butter-fingers. But in your case I'm 100% sure this is actually communist left-wing "enemy action".

NO. IT DOES NOT. It opens where you placed it last. Video from stock LL client. -> https://imgur.com/a/mzbQI0Q

NO. IT DOES, IN FACT DO THAT.

I provided ample proof with multiple screen shots and cases in the thread about the "wish list". 

Ideology dies hard, I realize.

[Prokofy Neva]

14 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

How do you not know whether an item in your inventory is a texture or not? the icons are all different for each thing, objects are cubes, clothing has a little picture of the layer it is, textures are a pixelated square, and pictures are a well, picture. 

if you set the transparency to 100% you will never see a texture on it... How long have you been in SL again? Do you do nothing but attack LL or do you actually DO anything in SL? Dear gods that was learned in prim textureing 101. 

Yeah, I got that before you did because I'm older than you in SL.

And I referenced that "phenomenon" in my answer, and even suggested staking up 10 prims layers with "totally clear" as the texture. Because the discussion was about THE TEXTURE ITSELF, not putting ANOTHER prim with "100% transparency". Sure, you can put 100% transparency, and gosh, I do that a hundred times a day and have done that even before YOU were born. But why put an extra prim out? That's the issue.

And it still makes no sense. Because why put a prim over another prim even if clear or put to 100%? So that if you accidentally texture something, it then still stays clear? When you can just put the original texture right back on in one swoop?

 

[Prokofy Neva]

14 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

How do you not know whether an item in your inventory is a texture or not? the icons are all different for each thing, objects are cubes, clothing has a little picture of the layer it is, textures are a pixelated square, and pictures are a well, picture. 

if you set the transparency to 100% you will never see a texture on it... How long have you been in SL again? Do you do nothing but attack LL or do you actually DO anything in SL? Dear gods that was learned in prim textureing 101. 

Um, duh, I realize that, because I have been doing this since before you were born?

Why? Some people may only have guns, "bits," some furry skins, and a few library items in their inventory so their cursor never slips.

But if you have thousands of household objects for decoration, because if you are hunting for something by name, sometimes what happens, the creator has put a picture of that item in a texture with that same name. So you think you are grabbing THE ITEM and NOT THE PICTURE.

 

[Coffee Pancake]

4 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

NO. IT DOES, IN FACT DO THAT.

I provided ample proof with multiple screen shots and cases in the thread about the "wish list". 

Ideology dies hard, I realize.

Did you miss the video I made with a stock unmodified official client? If yours doesn't do that, then maybe you need to do a clean install because I can assure you, that is absolutely the default-out-the-box behavior ------->>> https://imgur.com/a/mzbQI0Q

No one will take your feature requests seriously if you're not prepared to even consider that your errant existing behavior might be entirely local to you.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

1 minute ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Yeah, I got that before you did because I'm older than you in SL.

And yet, you are still dragging textures onto prims because you dont know if they are textures?!?! Riiiiight.. 

2 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

And I referenced that "phenomenon" in my answer, and even suggested stacking up 10 prims layers with "totally clear" as the texture. Because the discussion was about THE TEXTURE ITSELF, not putting ANOTHER prim with "100% transparency". Sure, you can put 100% transparency, and gosh, I do that a hundred times a day and have done that even before YOU were born. But why put an extra prim out? That's the issue.

Umm no.. @Nalates Urriah suggested stacking clear prims.. Also, you have no idea how long i, the user, have been in SL. Drake is not my first av.. 

5 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

And it still makes no sense. Because why put a prim over another prim even if clear or put to 100%? So that if you accidentally texture something, it then still stays clear? When you can just put the original texture right back on in one swoop?

Because you have to find the original texture... Just easier to not have to worry about that. 

[Prokofy Neva]

8 hours ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

Why don't you lock that block?
That will stop any accidental drag & drop texturing or dropping items/folders into the task inventory.
Edit block -> Object tab -> Tick "Locked"

Yes, I know how to lock things.

It's not that this "keeps happening".

It's that it happened ONCE as a bug

No, it doesn't have that script in it to take submissions. It isn't that I somehow put things in this block, or it somehow took things. It's that they got intermingled in their by an accident, AKA "a bug."

As for "open and copy to inventory," gosh, why didn't I think of it? Except...I did.

And it doesn't work. It gives an error message, "You are not allowed to copy". EVEN THOUGH these are MY items, in both copyable and single copy versions.

That's how you know it's an unnatural occurrence, i.e. what is known as "a bug."

I will file a ticket with the Lindens although I know it will "go nowhere."

 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

13 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Um, duh, I realize that, because I have been doing this since before you were born?

Why? Some people may only have guns, "bits," some furry skins, and a few library items in their inventory so their cursor never slips.

But if you have thousands of household objects for decoration, because if you are hunting for something by name, sometimes what happens, the creator has put a picture of that item in a texture with that same name. So you think you are grabbing THE ITEM and NOT THE PICTURE.

 

So, you decided your first reply wasn't nasty enough s you had to reply again in a nastier tone rather than edit your first post? How long have you been on the web? 

13 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Why? Some people may only have guns, "bits," some furry skins, and a few library items in their inventory so their cursor never slips.

And some of us are merchants that have over 110K items in their inventory and have never done this.

13 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

But if you have thousands of household objects for decoration, because if you are hunting for something by name, sometimes what happens, the creator has put a picture of that item in a texture with that same name. So you think you are grabbing THE ITEM and NOT THE PICTURE.

Also, if you grab a texture thinking its the item, perhaps you should slow down a bit before dragging things around. Here's a thought... DON'T GRAB THE TEXTURE, GRAB THE ITEM BLOCK!

Edited May 5, 2018 by Drake1 Nightfire

[Coffee Pancake]

4 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Yes, I know how to lock things.

It's not that this "keeps happening".

It's that it happened ONCE as a bug

As anyone who has tried to copy a couple of dozen items into a prim in a single action will tell you, no, that's not whats happened here because that is technically impossible.

You have accidentally dragged and dropped your stuff into your floor repeatedly over a long period of time. There is no other way this can happen. 

[Prokofy Neva]

6 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

As anyone who has tried to copy a couple of dozen items into a prim in a single action will tell you, no, that's not whats happened here because that is technically impossible.

You have accidentally dragged and dropped your stuff into your floor repeatedly over a long period of time. There is no other way this can happen. 

No.

I didn't do this repeatedly over a long time. There was nothing in that block and that AFTER I lost 15,000 inventory items, I found it contained all that stuff.

None of it can be deleted or copied.

That's how you know it's a bug.

The resistance of some people to admitting that software can have flaws in it is always astounding.

 

[Coffee Pancake]

Just now, Prokofy Neva said:

No.

I didn't do this repeatedly over a long time. There was nothing in that block and that AFTER I lost 15,000 inventory items, I found it contained all that stuff.

None of it can be deleted or copied.

That's how you know it's a bug.

The resistance of some people to admitting that software can have flaws in it is always astounding.

As the block presumably contains all 15,000 of your missing inventory items, that might have something to do with it "appearing empty" and you being unable to change it's contents now.

Having spent some time with the viewer source code, I feel very confident in telling you that

1. This is a result of your explicit actions.
2. There is no MagicalProkofyInventoryMayhem() function.

Errant behavior in a complex system like the SL viewer is not a bug, not unless it can be demonstrated and reproduced on demand. Right now we have one object, one user and an awful lot of denial. Anyone would think you had no interest in getting assistance.

Your call to LL for help will go nowhere as there is no magical solution to the mess you have accidentally made, the very best you can hope for will be to pick the prim up, rerez it and see if you can unpack that.

[Solar Legion]

This is that one's Modus Operandi - blame everything and everyone else while insisting those who actually know better are wrong or part of some vast conspiracy against them. 

[Klytyna]

12 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Anyone would think you had no interest in getting assistance.

Imagine you are an ignorant old devil who categorically refuses to RTFM...

For years you've whined about being unable to rez on mesh, so you always rez a prim to rez and edit things on.

Then either through user error, holding the control key down or just failing to de-flurb your keyboard regularly, and thus having a stuck key, you crtl-drag folders full of no copy items onto the prim, and thus... Into the prim.

Then you delete the temporary rezzing platform, along with all it's unsuspected contents...

Then you notice that a big chunk of no-copy inventory has "mysteriously vanished" and start a long crusade of whine & rant against LL for stealing your inventory.

Then one day you discover by accident that you've dropped so many items INTO prims, that the system cannot actually cope with the contents well enough to drag them out again, and that all your ranting about inventory theft has been due to you TOTALLY FAILING to learn how to use BASIC FEATURES of the "LL Inferiority Viewer" you love so much, despite having been here for more than a decade.

Seriously... Would you ask for help and admit you messed up? Or would you carry on blaming the rest of the world for being part of a Techno-Commie-Anarchist plot to destroy the worship of the Blessed St. Ayn of Rand by STEALING your valuable gacha rares and HIDING them in the foundations of your office building!

 

Edited May 5, 2018 by Klytyna

[Qie Niangao]

12 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

As anyone who has tried to copy a couple of dozen items into a prim in a single action will tell you, no, that's not whats happened here because that is technically impossible.

Yeah, this has me puzzled, too. There's some practical limit -- 40-something, maybe? -- beyond which such inventory transfers start to fail. I guess theoretically a magic "bug" could somehow overcome this limitation, but it's really quite a stretch; a heck of a lot of content must push to the sim for thousands or even hundreds of items to get into an object.

Objects cannot contain folders. (This is actually a tremendous pain, but Rosedale had a freakish phobia of nested structure.) So it's not surprising that "they aren't in a folder or folders" because there's literally no way for them to be in folders inside an object.

Maybe I missed it: is there some theory of what it means that "I tried deleting the items or moving them to inventory and a little lock appears on them -- they won't move"? I get this lock all the time on the Linden viewer, trying to drag stuff into the Recents tab of Inventory, but I don't imagine this case is that simple. What's convincing the viewer that it can't operate on these items?