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Help with PC build for SL!

Zomborg Vollmar
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Coffee Pancake

Coffee Pancake

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Youtube is your friend, there are LOTS of channels dedicated to PC building with a budget. Prices do fluctuate so stick to recent vids.

Any gaming PC will be able to play SL and Fortnite.

Nvidia GPU, don't skimp on the CPU and get anything intel i7 (there is little difference between any i7 from the last few years, so don't fret over which model or generation is the right one) and 16GB ram - no more, no less.

GPU's are expensive right now thanks to miners, so a lower end card is probably a better buy, you can always upgrade it later .. where as a good i7 will see you happy for many years.

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Lillith Hapmouche

Lillith Hapmouche

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$1,007.67 is the cheapest I can get on Newegg... but feel free to take the list of suggested parts to the dealer of your trust and inquire for a good deal.
All lists assume that you get a copy of Win10 elsewhere, not part of the price or for free from an upgraded Win7, and that you need everything new, including a case and a SSD.

Intel base:

AMD base:

... I'd favour the AMD setup, especially if you do multitasking or work with applications besides gaming.

 

The "Red Dragon" RX 580 is currently one of the best deals in that range. More VRAM and a decent cooling system compared to the 1060s of a comparable price level.

Alternative, slightly cheaper GTX 1060 6 GB cards ... get the best bang for your bucks. Any "Nvidia vs. AMD is better for SL" is a futile discussion.

Edited by Lillith Hapmouche
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Lillith Hapmouche

Lillith Hapmouche

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Why, thanks for explaining that "immune" and "next to immune" aren't the same thing. ;)
In the meantime, Intel has more fun with the new and sparkly "Spectre Next Generation" insecurities due to their architecture, mostly in the servers segments, while AMD is "slightly less affected" once again. 
I love the remark quoted on my news resource, "private users don't need to worry, there are much easier exploits to get to the same set of info".

Anyway... all that Spectre stuff is wildly discussed and can be researched in tons of threads and reports on technical themed websites, if it's of further interest. 

 

Should the OP actually return to the thread, unlike numerous other posters asking for support, I'm still leaning towards the AMD setup, even though I added the i7-8700 without k to the list as potential CPU, which I totally blacked out upon last night. 
Looking at benchmark results, ComputerBase for example found the new 2600x to be a tad ahead of the Intel CPUs in Fortnite:

ba763d293b7a6fed73a6dc42e7655f44.png

It also shows a tendency which you'll come across in several reviews: the 8400 is very near to the 8700k for significantly less $$$. And while the 8700k does offer more FPS in general, you'll encounter more fluttering with dropping frames, the 8400 keeps a better average ... that's the 99th percentile frametimes table.

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Lillith Hapmouche

Lillith Hapmouche

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My personal view: you're running a much greater risk as soon as you go out to the streets, as in "it's more likely that you're getting mugged, set on fire and thrown in front of a heavy load truck, getting run over multiple times". 

Also my personal view: I'd avoid Intel for their attitude in the whole Spectre affair, but that's purely based on bias.

The main technical advantage for AMD: the plattform isn't already "end of life", as in Intel's case. Current mainboards for AMD are meant to be compatible with the Zen 2 CPU generation further down the road.
If you look at the development of the Zen CPUs, you'll see what a nice jump in performance we already got from going to the current Zen+ CPU refresh, like the 2600x. They have much better memory support compared to the original release. Performance has already increased ...

Neither of the configs has serious "how could you?!?" potential. Pick the one for your preferred price and enjoy.

... and thanks for chiming back into the thread, that's uncommon ;)

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Zomborg Vollmar

Zomborg Vollmar

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5 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

My personal view: you're running a much greater risk as soon as you go out to the streets, as in "it's more likely that you're getting mugged, set on fire and thrown in front of a heavy load truck, getting run over multiple times". 

Also my personal view: I'd avoid Intel for their attitude in the whole Spectre affair, but that's purely based on bias.

The main technical advantage for AMD: the plattform isn't already "end of life", as in Intel's case. Current mainboards for AMD are meant to be compatible with the Zen 2 CPU generation further down the road.
If you look at the development of the Zen CPUs, you'll see what a nice jump in performance we already got from going to the current Zen+ CPU refresh, like the 2600x. They have much better memory support compared to the original release. Performance has already increased ...

Neither of the configs has serious "how could you?!?" potential. Pick the one for your preferred price and enjoy.

... and thanks for chiming back into the thread, that's uncommon ;)

This is what I’ve come up with so far. It’s a little over budget. Any pointers to help bring price down some?

[PCPartPicker part list](https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3JmMvn) / [Price breakdown by merchant](https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3JmMvn/by_merchant/)

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
**CPU** | [AMD - Ryzen 5 2600X 3.6GHz 6-Core Processor](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/6mm323/amd-ryzen-5-2600x-36ghz-6-core-processor-yd260xbcafbox) | $228.89 @ OutletPC 
**CPU Cooler** | [Cooler Master - Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/hmtCmG/cooler-master-cpu-cooler-rr212e20pkr2) | $24.89 @ OutletPC 
**Motherboard** | [Gigabyte - X470 AORUS GAMING 5 WIFI ATX AM4 Motherboard](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/zytQzy/gigabyte-x470-aorus-gaming-5-wifi-atx-am4-motherboard-x470-aorus-gaming-5-wifi) | $179.99 @ Amazon 
**Memory** | [G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/LhgPxr/gskill-memory-f43000c15d16gvrb) | $179.99 @ Newegg 
**Storage** | [Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/MwW9TW/western-digital-internal-hard-drive-wd10ezex) | $43.85 @ OutletPC 
**Video Card** | [EVGA - GeForce GTX 1070 8GB SC Gaming ACX 3.0 Video Card](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/Tv38TW/evga-geforce-gtx-1070-8gb-sc-gaming-acx-30-video-card-08g-p4-6173-kr) | $484.98 @ Newegg 
**Case** | [Phanteks - ECLIPSE P400S TEMPERED GLASS ATX Mid Tower Case](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/gmJkcf/phanteks-eclipse-p400s-tempered-glass-atx-mid-tower-case-ph-ec416pstg_wt) | $69.99 @ Newegg 
**Power Supply** | [EVGA - SuperNOVA G3 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply](https://pcpartpicker.com/product/sMM323/evga-supernova-g3-550w-80-gold-certified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-220-g3-0550) | $53.98 @ Newegg 
 | *Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts* |
 | Total (before mail-in rebates) | $1326.56
 | Mail-in rebates | -$60.00
 | **Total** | **$1266.56**
 | Generated by [PCPartPicker](http://pcpartpicker.com) 2018-05-03 09:28 EDT-0400 |

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Lillith Hapmouche

Lillith Hapmouche

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No SSD? Really? I'd rather skip the HDD, perhaps you can reuse an one one... but never without a SSD anymore. Especially not in that price and performance range.

 

The cooler cannot be mounted on an AM4 socket without an extra kit. Skip it completely and use the included Wraith Spire cooler for a start. It does an ok job.

 

Did you pick the Aorus mainboard for the WiFi capability? An alternative would be a cheaper X470 board with a WiFi-plugin, either as internal card or as external solutions. 
But preferably a wired connection.

 

I'm not fully happy with the RAM choice.
RAM has a huge impact on the overall performance of the Ryzen CPUs. The RipJaws are ok, but I'd rather use them for an Intel base. Ryzens favour DDR4-3200 CL14 kits in general, and the G.Skill Flare X kit I suggested is optimized for Ryzen. It is reported to be greatly compatible to multiple boards and easily reach the promised speed.

 

What monitor do you currently got? If it's "only" a fullHD resolution and 60HZ refresh rate, perhaps you can save those ~ US$ 130 and stay in the RX 580 / GTX 1060 range.
The plain 1070 is a bit unfortunate... for about US$ 30 on top, you can get a 1070ti and for US$550, we already got a 1080.

 

Please mind that the ECLIPSE P400 does not come with intake fans in the front, but you can add some yourself. Alternatively, look at the Fractal Design Focus G with two included fans in the front... you could move one of them to the backside as outlet fan.

Edited by Lillith Hapmouche
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Zomborg Vollmar

Zomborg Vollmar

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1 hour ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

No SSD? Really? I'd rather skip the HDD, perhaps you can reuse an one one... but never without a SSD anymore. Especially not in that price and performance range.

 

The cooler cannot be mounted on an AM4 socket without an extra kit. Skip it completely and use the included Wraith Spire cooler for a start. It does an ok job.

 

Did you pick the Aorus mainboard for the WiFi capability? An alternative would be a cheaper X470 board with a WiFi-plugin, either as internal card or as external solutions. 
But preferably a wired connection.

 

I'm not fully happy with the RAM choice.
RAM has a huge impact on the overall performance of the Ryzen CPUs. The RipJaws are ok, but I'd rather use them for an Intel base. Ryzens favour DDR4-3200 CL14 kits in general, and the G.Skill Flare X kit I suggested is optimized for Ryzen. It is reported to be greatly compatible to multiple boards and easily reach the promised speed.

 

What monitor do you currently got? If it's "only" a fullHD resolution and 60HZ refresh rate, perhaps you can save those ~ US$ 130 and stay in the RX 580 / GTX 1060 range.
The plain 1070 is a bit unfortunate... for about US$ 30 on top, you can get a 1070ti and for US$550, we already got a 1080.

 

Please mind that the ECLIPSE P400 does not come with intake fans in the front, but you can add some yourself. Alternatively, look at the Fractal Design Focus G with two included fans in the front... you could move one of them to the backside as outlet fan.

I haven’t picked a monitor yet! I will look at switching what you suggested and repost. I’m torn on AMD or Intel for SL. I keep Hearing from different sides to get one or the other. 

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Lillith Hapmouche

Lillith Hapmouche

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If you don't have a monitor yet, you might wish to read up on the topic of FreeSync (supported by AMD) vs. Gsync (supported by Nvidia). Or no sync at all. Usually, monitors with FreeSync tech are cheaper. 
The screensize is a different topic ... 24'' FullHD is pretty much standard. 25'' or 27'' for 2k resolutions ... and enthusiasts dream of 4k with 60fps or more. Well. Personally, I find a bigger screen lovely for SL and stuff like inventory sorting. On my secondary setup, I got an iiyama ProLite XUB2792QSU-B1 (thank heavens for copy and paste!), which is a 27'' screen with a 2560x1440 resoltion, Freesync and an IPS panel, paired with a RX 480. Playing a lot of Battlefield 1 on it with custom settings, it usually runs between 60 and 90 fps and simply looks stunning. Which means that even a "midrange" card can power a 2k resolution with mindful graphic settings. 

I'll be bold and put it like this in terms of CPU: it doesn't make a difference. Anything that gets you over, say, 30fps will do.
So overall, I'd suggest keeping your focus on Fortnite for optimizing. If that game runs great, SL will also cope quite well.

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Coffee Pancake

Coffee Pancake

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The SL viewer is heavily CPU bound and not excessively threaded. From someone heavily involved with viewer development, single core speed matters. and for that .. it's intel. Games are less fussy. Don't get me wrong, I do very much like the Ryzen platform, but my use case is not limited to SL and a few games.

Do not discount the second hand aspect though. Intel have done precious little to their platform for years, so ANY i7 will be a solid base for a SL / gaming computer. Something that's several years old will be cheaper and only a few percentage points behind the very latest offerings. You also have the advantage that you're suddenly not starting from zero - you're upgrading a box rather than making a new one. Seriously, you could get a 10 year old i7, stick a new GPU in it and get more Fortnite FPS than your monitor can render.

Second hand AMD is a waste of time unless it's Ryzen.

Do you research on Ryzen Mobos, some of the first gen ones have plenty of issues right out the box that need a bios update to fix.

When picking a case - Get one that will fit a full size ATX board - Future you will thank you.

Aim for a wired connection rather than Wifi for SL .. putting cable in is a pain in the butt, but there is a fair chance you will end up doing it anyway.

Monitors can also be picked up Second hand. If they work .. THEY WORK. You can always splurge on a nice ultra-wide with gsync later. On day one, Any screen is better than no screen, even if terrible and from Goodwill.

SSD always .. Even a super cheap store brand 120GB $30 Microcenter/Inland one.

Don't forget your Windows licence.

Don't get a cheap-no-brand chinesium power supply.

 

Edit - Oh .. and I forgot to add. The Stock cooler for Intel and Ryzen is perfectly fine (Ryzen's especially so, its nice). It might not get record temps and might sound like a hair dryer, but you will probably get one with the CPU. It's an easy upgrade later.

Edited by CoffeeDujour
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Nalates Urriah

Nalates Urriah

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When you start looking at what is needed for good Second Life performance, consider the series of articles and testing I did. http://blog.nalates.net/category/hardware/ Browse through the article titles to find the things that interest you.

I'm an Intel girl. But, at any given time AMD or Intel is best... for a certain app. They leapfrog as they compete. Security-wise... You can research a number of cyber-security sites. Unless you are into military grade security, the CPU isn't going to make a significant difference, IMO. The problem is way more complex. The best you can do is keep you operating system updated and avoid porn and hacker sites.

The SL viewers are generally CPU bound. The viewer runs as many as 20+/- threads, parallel tasks. But, the main render task runs in a single thread.

So, task switching and the number of cores (processors) is important but, secondary to CPU speed. I overclock my 3.5GHz to 4.1GHz. If I turn off the overclock, I see a noticeable difference in viewer performance.

The Intel i5 processors are more than adequate. The i7 is better but on a cost-benefit ratio hard to justify.

The new 8xxx series Intel CPU's and new motherboards allow the use of Optane® memory. But, a RAM disk provides essentially the same performance benefit at less cost. Optane allows one to use a large (relatively slow) spinning disk hard drive to get near SSD performance. Optane does "SMART" buffering and supposedly makes efficient use of the drive's buffers. Sounds ideal.

The 6xxx and 7xxxx CPU's are available on eBay at discounted prices. Some are new. Others are used. You can find deals and drop your cost. Every once in a while someone is dumping one for a ridiculously low price. You can upgrade a 6xxx to a 7xxx. But, neither can upgrade to an 8xxx. Requires different motherboard (mb) chipsets. z170, z270, and z370 are the respective chipsets. As best I can tell an 8xxx CPU will fit in and work in a mb for 6xxx and 7xxx, but features in the 8xxx that make it worth the extra cost won't work.

Memory speed is an important part of CPU performance. In general, you want the fastest memory the mb will handle. I think 8GB is the minimum memory needed. I recommend 16GB and think 32GB is better. I use 10GB of memory for a RAM drive and have software to save and load the drive content at shut down and boot.

SSD is still expensive. Spinning hard disks are cheap. So, I use large hard drives for general storage, the RAM Drive for main viewer's cache, and a 512GB SSD for other caches. 

An SSD should not connect via the SATA ports. SSD's are faster than the SATA connection on most mb's. So, you want one that connects via the M.2 PCIe port.

Video... AMD and NVIDIA are good. The only difference I think matters is NVIDIA's support for OpenGL. AMD's support lags. So, I recommend NVIDIA.

Cost... you can look for deals on eBay. But, the demand for GPU processors for Bitcoin generation have driven the cost of video cards up. A new one from New Egg or Tiger is probably the best you'll find.

My GTX 1060 6GB runs near 50% max load with FS and LL viewers. Friends run GTX 980 cards and are happy with them. The big graphics load in SL viewers is the texture load. So, lots of video ram helps. However, the viewers are bottlenecked on video memory. It is hard to find solid information on which viewer does what with video memory. FS is one of the few that will allow one set video mentory to more than 512. Just remember, that value in the setting is NOT the max video memory used by SL. It has more to do with how much is used for texture caching on the video card. 

Hopefully, this gives you some idea where you can cut corners and where to spend money.

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norajulian

norajulian

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Peeking into this because my gaming laptop is rapidly declining, which is incredibly disheartening for me because I love the little monster. I'm somewhat tech-challenged and do not understand all the mumbo jumbo, but I have been researching. My biggest question is WHAT does SL pull from the PC the most? What should I set aside in my budget for things I definitely should not slack on (for better use of the word)? I've heard that a good graphics card doesn't do it, and I need the perfect mesh to be able to get shadows and all those special bits. My main gig that I do in secondlife is photography and therefore I really need the graphics to flow. I am not on a 1,000 USD budget, but I don't really want to spend more than $1800. My RL partner built his own, but he does not play SL and usually lurks around WoW and other single and multi-player games that I have no interest in, and I have heard that SL utilizes graphics differently than those types do. 

Is it hard to switch to AMD when you've been nothing but Intel for years? 

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Lillith Hapmouche

Lillith Hapmouche

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Yes, it's incredibly hard for Intel fanboys on other boards to grasp that AMD is offering good competition on the CPU sector by now ... but seriously, what issues do you expect to confront in your daily use? Nothing. 

Anyway, you start off saying that you use a laptop (which might actually just need a proper cleaning, depending on what is "rapidly declining"), then switch to what seems to suggest a desktop computer. So what is your intention? And what is your focus, besides photography in SL? Lots of gaming of what games or rather applications to edit items and/or run a lot of tasks at the same time?

To answer the "WHAT does SL pull from the PC the most", I'd say: a well balanced setup with neither too weak graphics nor a too weak CPU, not enough RAM and no SSD.
Current age CPUs of both leagues can greatly profit from fast paced RAM, for example.

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Bebe Bunny

Bebe Bunny

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My PC is from 2012, AMD, never had an issue with overheating (besides when the thermal  paste ran dry), atm I'm using a low end graphic card it handles SL well enough for me not to die too much because of FPS, even if Firestorm does mess up and has to be reinstalled. I play other games well too so I do think AMD is a really good option compared to what it used to be.

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norajulian

norajulian

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41 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

So what is your intention? And what is your focus, besides photography in SL? Lots of gaming of what games or rather applications to edit items and/or run a lot of tasks at the same time?

I should have been more clear, which is definitely my fault. I do not play anything aside from Secondlife. I’m not a gamer by any means, and my time on my computer for free time consists of Secondlife or editing photos from Secondlife utilizing photoshop. I would like to dabble into building at some point (Blender) but aside from that, I have a light weight laptop I use for movies and other funsies little things. I don’t often multitask, so I might have discord, Secondlife, and photoshop up at the same time at max.

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Lillith Hapmouche

Lillith Hapmouche

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Thanks for clarifying ^_^

You can actually pick either of my previously suggested setups in post #3 as a base. Optionally, in the AMD setup, there'd be the octacore Ryzen 7 2700x versus the hexacore R5 2600x... two more cores for $50, fair enough.

For AMD, other mainboard choices with supposedly higher quality and more features would be the ASUS Prime X470-Pro, the ASUS ROG Strix X470-F Gaming and the ASRock X470 Taichi.
For Intel, the ASRock Z370 Extreme4 or the ASUS Prime Z370-A, just to select a few.

You can update other components like

...and yes, the GPU.
For $500, you can get a nice 1070ti.
However, starting at $580, we also got a proper 1080, going up to over $600 (MSI, EVGA). 
The midrange choices are already listed and actually should serve you well for your non-gaming needs. In your case, those bigger cards would be "nice to have", but it would be in the same league as driving a Ferrari to town and nothing more.
EDIT: Actually, I noticed that my originally chosen Red Devil has become more expensive, so please replace that one with this version: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131713

If you are really serious about photoshopping, you might consider a 32 GB RAM kit. But RAM is horribly expensive these days and sadly not expected to drop anytime soon.

Add about US$ 100 for a Win10 license, if you can't keep using your current one.

I'd reserve the rest of your budget for one or two monitors with good reviews.

Edited by Lillith Hapmouche
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norajulian

norajulian

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Update: my AMD suggestion has been shot down, and he's taken it into his own hands. This is the current setup that we have on the list: 

CAS: NZXT Source 340 Mid-Tower Gaming Case w/ USB 3.0, Side-Panel Window [-15] (White/Black Color)
COOLANT: None
CPU: Intel® Core™ Processor i5-8600K 3.60GHZ 9MB Intel Smart Cache LGA1151 (Coffee Lake)
CS_FAN: 4X 120mm Thermaltake Riing 12 Series High Static Pressure 120mm Case/Radiator Fan [+49] (Blue Color LED)
EVGA_POWER: EVGA PowerLink Revolutionized Cable Management Adaptor [+10] (Single Adaptor)
FAN: CyberpowerPC Asetek 550LC (White Color) 120mm Liquid Cooling CPU Cooler (Single BLUE Tt Riing 12 Series Case/Radiator Fan [+12])
CU: Q1' 18 Intel® Core™ i5, i7 VR Ready Bundle
HDD: 500GB WD Blue SSD + 3TB SATA III Hard Drive Combo [+155] (Plus 32GB Intel Optane Memory SSD Acceleration 4X Faster (Primary OS Drive) [+39])
HDD2: None
IUSB: Built-in USB 2.0 Ports
KEYBOARD: Cooler Master MasterKeys Lite L Combo RGB Gaming Keyboard and Mouse [+36]
MEMORY: 16GB (8GBx2) DDR4/3000MHz Dual Channel Memory [+120] (ADATA XPG Z1)
MONITOR: 24" Widescreen 1920x1080 ASUS VS247H-P 1080P (23.6 inch Viewable) 2ms LED Backlight, DVI, HDMI Input [+168] (Single Monitor)
MOTHERBOARD: ASRock Z370 KILLER SLI/AC ATX w/ RGB, 802.11ac WiFi, USB 3.1, 2 PCIe x16, 4 PCIe x1, 6 SATA3, 2 M.2 SATA/PCIe [Intel Optane Ready] [+20]
NETWORK: Onboard Gigabit LAN Network
OS: Windows 10 Home (64-bit Edition)
OVERCLOCK: Pro OC (Performance Overclock 10% or more) [+19]
POWERSUPPLY: 600 Watts - Thermaltake SMART series 600Watts 80 Plus Gold high-efficient Power Supply [+5]
PRO_WIRING: Professional Wiring + [White] Phanteks Premium Extension Cables sleeved set [24Pin MB + 8Pin CPU + 6+2 Pin VGA] [+39]
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
VIDEO: EVGA GeForce® GTX 1060 Superclocked 6GB GDDR5 (Pascal)[VR Ready] [+97] (Single Card)
 

Bless all of you for your technological intelligence, because all of this is Greek to me. Does it look okay? Are there things I should swap around for performance? Have considered upping to a higher graphics. 

Edited by norajulian
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cykarushb

cykarushb

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LGA 1151 skylake system with an i5 6600 or i7 6700 (or their K variants if you want to OC), 8-16gb of 2400mhz ddr4, some random storage but an SSD is useful for SL cache, whatever case suits your fancy and is compatible with your choice of motherboard size (speaking of motherboards, chipset h110 for locked, z170 for unlocked processors), for a GPU look into raw performance per dollar, and for a PSU always 80+ bronze minimum and 150-200w over your estimated power draw 

The reason I say Skylake is because it's cheaper to find skylake parts in the used market, and there's a near negligible performance difference between say, a 6700k and a 7700k. You could go back to Haswell with an i7 4770/4790k and also get just about the same performance. 8700k only outperforms because it has two more cores that SL will never utilize. 

Haswell would also be a good option since DDR3 is cheaper than DDR4 

example

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/DxHk9J

kinda just your bog standard gaming machine, however with no GPU, for that as I said look for raw performance per dollar. The remaining 270$ can get you a GTX 970 or even a 980 on eBay which perform similarly to current gen cards one step down the chain (970-3gb 1060, 980- bit below a 1070)

what I suggest, if you want to cut that budget down, a lynnfield Xeon system is super cheap and performs really well. I got a Xeon x3440, 32gb of ecc ddr3, and a motherboard for a bit under 150$ total, and the Xeon performs similarly to an i5 2500 but at 1/3 of the price, and ecc server memory is super cheap compared to regular memory

also an option on sever hardware is workstation hardware, older quadro and FirePro cards do great with SL due to its graphical layout being more like a workspace than a game, the comparative workstation card to a gaming card will always outperform (quadro 4000 vs GTX 465 vs GTX 550ti is something I've been testing recently, quadro beats the other two by a landslide)

problem there is that after a certain age point, quadros become more expensive than their consumer counterparts, since they're not in a resale cycle yet, a quadro 4000 is about 100$ while a 550ti is around 45-50$

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