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Packet loss occurs when one or more packets of data travelling across a computer network fail to reach their destination. Packet loss is either caused by errors in data transmission, typically across wireless networks[1][2] or network congestion.[3] Packet loss is measured as a percentage of packets lost with respect to packets sent.

The Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) detects packet loss and performs retransmissions to ensure reliable messaging. Packet loss in a TCP connection is also used to avoid congestion and thus produces an intentionally reduced throughput for the connection. This intentional throttling behavior prevents wireless networks from performing near their theoretical potential transfer rates, because unmodified TCP treats all dropped packets as if they were caused by network congestion, and constantly throttles wireless networks even when they aren't actually congested.[4]

In streaming media and online game applications, packet loss can affect a user's quality of experience(QoE).

(wikipedia)

Edited by Ethan Paslong

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Grats on posting a Wikipedia explanation for packetloss but I don't see how that solves the issue with me having 20% packet loss to a sim.

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5 minutes ago, Felis Catnap said:

 but I don't see how that solves the issue with me having 20% packet loss to a sim.

reading the explanation you might take the option to rethink your statement thats its not your connection.

"your" not in your personal, but between you and the sim.

Contact your ISP if it's at the other side of your connection point.

 

Edited by Ethan Paslong

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Uh no, if my connection was the issue I would be experiencing packet loss across the board, on every single network based app I used, but I do not. Tested multiple times with multiple sites and ping...

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21 minutes ago, Felis Catnap said:

Uh no, if my connection was the issue I would be experiencing packet loss across the board, on every single network based app I used, but I do not. Tested multiple times with multiple sites and ping...

still... if you want LL to look at the sim your still at the wrong place, this is the forum and rarely looked at by LL employees.

You'll have to contact support, or live chat to get their attention quickly.

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17 minutes ago, Felis Catnap said:

Uh no, if my connection was the issue I would be experiencing packet loss across the board, on every single network based app I used, but I do not. Tested multiple times with multiple sites and ping...

Not true... You could have a great connection to a server in New York and an awful connection to servers in California. Those connections would only use same the first 2 or 3 nodes of the outbound path. Everything else would be traveling through other hardware.

Voice in SL is handled by Vivox servers. The viewer does not report packet loss for that connection. The viewer reports packet loss between you and the SL system. Normal packet loss with SL is <1%. Most connections are dropped by the SL servers when Packet Loss exceeds 5% for more than a few seconds.

Anyone that does anything with networking will tell you a 20% packet loss is a network issue.

But, you are welcome to tell yourself you don't have a problem and spend time chasing other solutions... ¬¬

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1 hour ago, Felis Catnap said:

Uh no, if my connection was the issue I would be experiencing packet loss across the board, on every single network based app I used, but I do not. Tested multiple times with multiple sites and ping...

What is SL Packet Loss

Packet loss in SL is a very specific issue.

The region is sending you some data over UDP.  UDP data can be seen as time-sensitive.  Say, the position of an avatar. You need to know NOW .. you don't care what the value was a second ago.

The sim sends you a stream of packets, and you viewer has to be ready to catch them as they arrive, in order. If for some reason it isn't managing to do that then you will have packet loss. A good analogy is the server is playing catch with you and throwing too many balls too fast. The bandwidth slider in your viewer preferences is a throttle for this data - its badly labeled and has nothing to with how much bandwidth you actually might have, just how fast your computer and connection can play this game of real time digital catch - It used to affect everything way back when, but not anymore.

Most of the viewer data has been moved to TCP which is way more reliable and will be unaffected, this is why things mostly seem to work when you have packet loss.

However ... 

The SL service does still send some non-time-sensitive data over UDP, so having packet loss can result in a generally poor experience with non-obvious causes.

Note - Voice is an entirely separate service provided by a different company. It working or not working has almost nothing to do with SL.

Resolving packet loss.

The cause of packet loss could be many things, most of which can be outside of your control. It really is your connection (or maybe a painfully slow computer).

Update your viewer. Always use the latest released version.

Start up the viewer fresh, set the bandwidth slider in your viewer to 200, the slider is poorly named and does not throttle the whole viewer (as the name implies)  just the game of UDP catch. It used to affect everything, but that's not the case anymore - If that doesn't instantly fix your problem (you can continue to try tweaking it lower) then it's almost certainly your connection to SL that's at fault

Next, if you're on Wifi. Switch to using a cable plugged into your router, if you can't do that, move to a different spot to play SL or move your router. Wifi is a common cause of packet loss.

The best you can do to resolve it is switch everything off for a minute (computer, router, wifi etc), go make a cup of tea and then fire everything back up.

If you still get packet loss .. and you're on a wired connection and all your gear is fast and shiny and working perfectly .. the source is between your home and SL, the only thing you can do is call your ISP or find a new one. 

tl;dr yes, it's totally your connection

 

The Lab have been working for years now to slowly move everything that shouldn't be using UDP over to HTTP. This is one reason why you should always try to use the very latest release of your viewer, and why we haven't had quite as much sexy shiny from LL as we might have hoped for. Server side stuff just isn't sexy and doesn't get people excited, but this is why SL runs better than it ever has.

Edited by CoffeeDujour
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Good to know a bunch of people on SL are ***** and would spend their time arguing semantics and actively spending time trying to proving themselves right.

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5 minutes ago, Felis Catnap said:

Good to know a bunch of people on SL are ***** and would spend their time arguing semantics and actively spending time trying to proving themselves right.

I see nobody arguing semantics here.  I see a user with a problem, but doesn't want to accept the answer that multiple people are telling said user.

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34 minutes ago, Felis Catnap said:

Good to know a bunch of people on SL are ***** and would spend their time arguing semantics and actively spending time trying to proving themselves right.

You're welcome .. but in the mean time, you still have a packet loss problem. If you didn't want help why did you post?

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1 hour ago, CoffeeDujour said:

 If you didn't want help why did you post?

Inquiring minds want to know. 

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Just now, Nalytha said:

Inquiring minds want to know. 

Nah, I've decided I don't why the post was created  ^_^

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SL has a moderately tough packet management problem. Object position updates need to get through with minimal delay, or you see visible lag, or those stupid motion artifacts that appear when the viewer tries to guess what's going on in the absence of data.  That's a small fraction of the traffic. Object updates are never retransmitted; you always want the latest one. A delayed old one is useless. I wonder how much reported "packet loss" is actually out of order delivery.

Most of the traffic volume is geometry and textures. It's not time critical, and much of it comes from the content delivery network, not SL's servers. But it uses most of the line time and competes with the object updates. Because of this, you need a lot more bandwidth to the Internet than SL will use. There needs to be a lot of idle time on your network connection, or the object position updates get delayed.

This problem is common to all MMO games, so it gets some attention. It is sometimes possible to set up quality of service queuing in both your own router and the last router on your ISP's side to prioritize UDP packets over TCP packets. Some routers and some ISPs allow this; look for "gamer settings".  There's no standard on this (well, there is; it's called DOCSIS-PIE, but that's the underlying machinery, not the user interface.) There are some gamer-oriented routers which claim to help.

Try playing Fortnite, which is a very high performance 3D virtual world where you can build stuff while people are shooting at you. If that works, SL should work. If it lags badly, call your ISP and ask them how to tune your network connection for Fortnite. They won't know about SL, but they'll know about Fortnite, which is about #5 in online usage of all online services right now.

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The wont know anything about fortnite .. they will just hear "game" .. and will then bounce you through all the usual hoops for diagnosing a generic connection problem, starting with .. have you tried switching it off and on again.

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