Newbie-ish question about selling transfer-perm items on the MP

[LexxiXhan]

I was looking for something else in my inventory and stumbled across the filters options in Firestorm (no idea if the same is avaliable in other viewers). I happened across quite a few items that were full perm (other than items sold as full perm with license info) - group gifts, freebies, random objects etc....none of which included any permissions or restrictions information.

Would these items be fair game for selling? Is that what the 'Used Items' category on the marketplace is for? Is this bad form or unethical? Or expected? I imagine many of these items were given out through generosity and some of the creators or merchants might be horrified to find the recipients selling them on for L$s. I know gacha items are sold on in this way, but those are originally sold by the merchant in the full knowledge that trading them is normal.

All comments, angles, variations on the theme welcome

*fwiw, I hope to launch a business soon, so perspective from all sides is helpful.

[So Whimsy]

If they were gifts or freebies then why would you even consider selling them for L? They were given out freely, probably still are if they're not too old. They should stay free. While nothing legally keeps you from selling them I find it very morally wrong to accept gifts/freebies and turn around to sell them on for Linden. Make your own products if you'd like to sell things on the marketplace.

[Chic Aeon]

If some of those items are REALLY OLD they may be from a time when lots of things were full perm or more common as "take a copy". Most of those things have only historical value these days :D. You can check when you acquired an item in the properties info. You can check the creation date of an item in the object inspection floater. 

If something seem like it shouldn't be full perm and IS, another possibility is that the permissions changed. This is pretty much a creator's nightmare but it does happen (still). I often report those items with "odd" permissions to the maker who is most often NOT a happy camper.  You will need to decide how ethical it is for yourself -- likely on a case by case. 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2018 by Chic Aeon

[LexxiXhan]

13 minutes ago, Syn Anatine said:

Make your own products if you'd like to sell things on the marketplace.

Well, that is what I am doing. I was also curious to know if any sellers/ creators sell or gift transferable items in the full knowledge that they might be resold (for some reason newbies like me don't know about).

But yes..

18 minutes ago, Syn Anatine said:

While nothing legally keeps you from selling them I find it very morally wrong to accept gifts/freebies and turn around to sell them on for Linden.

I agree. But can only assume it does happen...which makes me wonder why the owners would leave them as transferable.

[LexxiXhan]

18 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

If something seem like it shouldn't be full perm and IS, another possibility is that the permissions changed. This is pretty much a creator's nightmare but it does happen (still).

I'm not sure how the permissions might change. If the maker is not happy about it when you make them aware, is it something the maker (or me!) could do by accident without forseeing the repercussions?

[So Whimsy]

Oh, it does happen and often so. There's tons of products in the animation as well as script sub category where people throw a bunch of free animations/scripts into a box and sell them.

Buyers then leave bad reviews stating things like "This animation is crap." "All the scripts in this box are actually freebies, can't believe I paid money for it!"

If you (general you) decide to sell free items on the market for more than 0L it will not do your reputation any good. At all.

And yes, I did read that you were going to open a business, I was hoping it's going to be one for products you made yourself as opposed to basing a business idea on what this topic is about.

[LexxiXhan]

1 minute ago, Syn Anatine said:

I was hoping it's going to be one for products you made yourself as opposed to basing a business idea on what this topic is about.

Oh definitely! I have a few lines I'm working on, prioritised and timeframed and everything, but very much my own work. But I do confess I was mildly curious about my alt being able to sell used items, and where the ethical lines are typically drawn - gachas and 'paid for' items would make sense to me*, but SL being a world unto itself with a lot of detailed technicalities, I wasn't sure if there was a 'normal' practice or expectation of items being deliberately transferable and resaleable.

*I work in creative industries in RL including licensing my work for specific purposes, regions and timeframes. I'm used to watertight contracts so this seemed like a bit of a loophole in SL, which is odd for such a technical environment.

[Chic Aeon]

3 hours ago, LexxiXhan said:

I'm not sure how the permissions might change. If the maker is not happy about it when you make them aware, is it something the maker (or me!) could do by accident without forseeing the repercussions?

Unfortunately  -- while creators DO make mistakes -- the database can also change permissions on us. Most folks that have had a busy business in SL know that happens. Just part of the way things are. 

I have had objects completely made by me, no scripts all my textures that of course  SHOULD be "full perm" for me --- become "no mod" for me, meaning that I had to remake the item over in order to be able to sell it. I am not the only one this has happened to. And sometimes items that were NOT tagged by the creator as transfer become so AND worst case scenario they turn into full perm items.  I have NO IDEA how this happens but it has happened to too many people for it to be an "anomaly".  It goes along with that disappearing inventory that never used to be talked about but is now accepted (for better or worse) and acknowledged :D. 

Oh, I may not have said that clearly enough in reference to "unhappy". When I report an item that has turned full perm to the creator (and it is of course possible that it was a mistake by the creator but not EVERY time as I have had plenty of occurrences myself) they are HAPPY that I told them --- just not happy that it happened. The item is then "out there for free" and really can't be sold any longer.  Just part of doing business in SL.

 

 

[Charlotte Bartlett]

Some may not be legitimate items - and may be copybotted etc if you are unsure of where you got them from.  You can then be open for a takedown via DMCA and any potential legal action.  This is at the extreme end of the scale.

I agree with the comments above particularly about reselling freebies, it will hurt your reputation.     If unsure ask the legitimate creator.   The license may not be in a notecard it may have been up on the listing for example when originally distributed - or the notecard has been lost in your inventory.    One approach is to ask the creator if they are happy for you to resell their item. 

[Dakota Linden]

Greetings all!

Be careful with reselling Full Permission items.  While the permissions themselves allow for reselling any Transfer Enabled item, reselling the item, especially Full Permission items, may violate the original creators Copyright. Before reselling any Full Permission item I would strongly recommend getting written permission from the original creator of the product.  

If you are unable to contact the original creator, or they do not give written permission, then I would recommend not trying to sell or give away the item.  

If an item is No Copy, Transfer Enabled, you can sell the item through the Marketplace, and I would recommend using the Used Items category.  As others said though, if you received the item for free and you are reselling it for L$, it may appear disingenuous and you may get backlash from others if they find the item for free from the original creator. 

Any items that you purchased that do not have copyright restrictions by the original creator, like Gatcha items, that are No Copy, Transfer Enabled, can be resold without ethics concerns.  Just as with selling anything you purchased from a brick and mortar store that you may wish to resell in a yard sale, consignment store, etc.   These types of items can sold through the Marketplace at any time.  The item should be placed into the exact category for the item (Example: if you are selling men's boots, the listing should go into the Men's Boots category) or may be placed into the Used Items category. 

If you are ever in doubt about reselling an item that you no longer want, contact the original creator of the item and do not resell it without express permission from them. 

Cheers~

 

Edited April 10, 2018 by Dakota Linden

[So Whimsy]

I quite like Inverse's system, it's automated. You leave a review on one of their houses, then you go to their store in world and touch a terminal. It verifies that you left a review automatically and then refunds you 50% of your pruchase.

This is imho, extremely well handled and encourages people to be unbiased since a) you do not have to directly approach the creator b) you do not at all feel pressured into leaving a better review because you know you will get your rebate either way c) the creator, other than setting up the system, has no chance to refuse any payout upon a negative review being left.

I'm temped to look into such a system myself, safe for less than a handful of reviews I've only ever had one customer leave a ton of them after buying a ton of my animations. It might look a little spammy and even fake, but if you dig...you'll realize I don't have power over the owner of PrimPossible  she's way out of my league but a gem for taking the time to review<3

[Fionalein]

2 minutes ago, Syn Anatine said:

This is imho, extremely well handled and encourages people to be unbiased since a) you do not have to directly approach the creator b) you do not at all feel pressured into leaving a better review because you know you will get your rebate either way c) the creator, other than setting up the system, has no chance to refuse any payout upon a negative review being left.

Negative reviews keep me puzzled all the time anyways. My Lindens don't come easy so I take a careful look at each purchase before I make it. Usually I simply do not buy the item so cannot leave a negative review =^.^=

[So Whimsy]

5 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Negative reviews keep me puzzled all the time anyways. My Lindens don't come easy so I take a careful look at each purchase before I make it. Usually I simply do not buy the item so cannot leave a negative review =^.^=

Did we both just get trolled by the forums? I was replying to the other topic where my above post is actually relevant in, and it somehow ended up attached to this thread. It's way off topic here, yet Dakota thanked it and you replied to it without seeming to notice the drastic change in topic like you are seeing it in the appropiate thread, not this one!

This is some Twilight ZONE sh*t right there.

Edited April 10, 2018 by Syn Anatine
I forgot 'Zone'. Twilight is not okay. Twilight Zone sure is!

[LexxiXhan]

I need to go find the other (intriguing) thread now..

..it's like the forum spammed itself..