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Hey folks, It's been great seeing all the comments and questions about Bakes on Mesh. We're looking forward to continuing to work with the community on this feature. A quick reminder, please

Good morning everyone! Bakes on Mesh is a new feature to allow system avatar baked textures to be shown on mesh attachments. Currently you will need a special project viewer to use it. Bakes on M

Well this discussion looks... um.... lively.  For those of you trying to try it out on your No-Mod Meshes, there is now an applier sitting on the counter in my lobby http://maps.secondlife.com/seco

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On 8/31/2019 at 12:38 PM, Thornotter said:

Anyone know if Linden Labs is planning a follow-up release to Bakes on Mesh that adds material support?

Material support for BOM is on our list for possible work for a follow-on project. We have no immediate plans to tackle it though.

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8 minutes ago, Kitsune Shan said:

You have 5 actually. 

Could you explain, please ?
I only see three. all the others are bound to the default uv's, aren't they ?
Five would suit me :)

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Edit : Nevermind, I just assumed that left leg and left arm used the default uv

Thanks :)

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33 minutes ago, Silas Merlin said:

Could you explain, please ?
I only see three. all the others are bound to the default uv's, aren't they ?
Five would suit me :)

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Edit : Nevermind, I just assumed that left leg and left arm used the default uv

Thanks :)

None of them use any UVs at all so even the default older ones can be used for whatever. 

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7 hours ago, Kitsune Shan said:

None of them use any UVs at all so even the default older ones can be used for whatever. 

well, then, surely, if you use one of the default slots with a different uv, the system will "bake" the skin layer at bottom which uses the default uv...  So, it will look all mangled until you wear a universal to point to a texture that uses the actual uv's of your mesh. I think that would be very confusing, that is why I would rather use auxiliaries for anything that does not have the standard uv's.


 

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44 minutes ago, Silas Merlin said:

well, then, surely, if you use one of the default slots with a different uv, the system will "bake" the skin layer at bottom which uses the default uv...  So, it will look all mangled until you wear a universal to point to a texture that uses the actual uv's of your mesh. I think that would be very confusing, that is why I would rather use auxiliaries for anything that does not have the standard uv's.


 

There's nothing stopping you from creating skins that use a different UV map. There's a small hole in one corner of the head map that's used for eyelashes but other than that they're just square textures.

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54 minutes ago, Silas Merlin said:

well, then, surely, if you use one of the default slots with a different uv, the system will "bake" the skin layer at bottom which uses the default uv...  So, it will look all mangled until you wear a universal to point to a texture that uses the actual uv's of your mesh. I think that would be very confusing, that is why I would rather use auxiliaries for anything that does not have the standard uv's.


 

That's not how it works neither how it worked always. Textures are just textures, square ones. What bake on mesh does or even the old system did, it was simply to stack images one on top of the other and render as a new image just like you would in Photoshop using layers and saving as a new flat image. No UVs are or has been involved ever. What you suggest isn't even possible at all since UVs aren't on textures but meshes. 

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On 8/28/2019 at 12:07 PM, Gael Streeter said:

Thank you Vir for the answer.
So this means an Universal should NOT BE USED FOR SKINS (or other plain textures) or it will overwrite all the worn Tattoos (and Skin) below...

"for example, with upper body you would have skin, then tattoos, then universals, then shirts, then jackets."
This order is very important to know (for creators and customers), I think. Is it possible to have it fully write down in the knowledge base ?

 

On 8/29/2019 at 11:09 AM, Gael Streeter said:

Perhaps, a better solution would be to display the Universal between the Skin and the Tattoos. No ? So the Universal could be used both as Skin and Tattoos. Of course in this case the wearing order between the Universals is crucial...

 

I come back on the subject...
Indeed, if the Universal would be displayed between the Skin and the Tattoos, it would allow to have HEAD SKINS separated from BODY SKINS.
For me this is an important feature to have!
Quite all the skinners today offer the head skins separated from the body skins. Customers can mix them as they want and for example change the skin of their head without changing the skin of their body.
With the Skin item this is not possible. But it would be possible with the Universal !

If skinners are reading, what do you think about this current limitation ?

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On 8/27/2019 at 12:15 PM, Gael Streeter said:

I just made some tests with the new Universal, notably on the HEAD TATTOO slot and it seems the UNIVERSAL is always ABOVE the other SKIN or TATTOO 

 

On 8/27/2019 at 10:15 PM, Vir Linden said:

That is normal.

@Vir Linden If this is expected for Universals to be above the Tattoo layer then perhaps the description in the  knowledgebase should be verified as the information given there is contradicting what you are saying here I quote:  "In layering order, universal wearables go between the tattoo and body layers.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, HunniHope said:

 

@Vir Linden If this is expected for Universals to be above the Tattoo layer then perhaps the description in the  knowledgebase should be verified as the information given there is contradicting what you are saying here I quote:  "In layering order, universal wearables go between the tattoo and body layers.

 

 

And it goes between the tattoo and the body layers. He didn't said skin so as I understood, he always meant to say body layers as clothing layers.

 

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17 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:
23 minutes ago, OptimoMaximo said:

As foreseen by @Klytyna and me, BoM's a failure 🤣

Explain your reasoning.

I'm with you on this. It's hardly a failure and will not be. It takes time to bloom into fruition, just as Bento did. Though there always will be negative-slanted naysayers in every crowd. They are the ballast in bottom of the hull that keeps the rest of the ship upright.

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57 minutes ago, Kitsune Shan said:

And it goes between the tattoo and the body layers.

Body layers isn't a very clear description, I'll see if we can tweak the wording there. As we've talked about in the forum, universals go right above tattoos and below other clothing.

We are planning to add more documentation about the clothing/outfit system in general too, since that hasn't gotten much coverage recently.

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1 hour ago, Kitsune Shan said:

Why so? It's true that there are few caveats that should have been done on release but I don't see why BOM would be a failure

Because instead of reviving an old, long dead feature, LL coukd have just put all this time and efforts in a revised and extended material system that woukd allow to layer full materials on ALL types of content, not just avatars. With all the bells and whistles that come with a brand new system, instead of all the caveats / problems arising from trying to adapt something old that can't handle materials out of the box. If this projecy would have taken 1/6 of the time it took, maybe it might have been something  worth that time and related effort, but at this level of issues still there on release without materials and partially working alphas, and the time taken, it's a failure. 

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28 minutes ago, OptimoMaximo said:

Because instead of reviving an old, long dead feature, LL coukd have just put all this time and efforts in

I don't think you understand, at all, the *purpose* of Bakes on Mesh.

The purpose of BoM is to ease system resource demands and viewer rendering loads by eliminating the extra mesh layers (onion skin layers) of current mesh bodies, so no underwear, tattoo, or clothing mesh layers to use appliers on, but rather a single layer that the BoM Composite is put on, and the composite being created using the system layers, as system *that already exists* and only needed to be updated.

It will take awhile until most people are wearing single-layer mesh bodies and avatars, but that, along with single composite textures will increase your frame-rates exponentially. If that doesn't make you happy then nothing else really will. Just remember that it will *take time* before all of this starts happening because the SL marketplace moves about as fast as it does in RL. Now that the technology is present, it will take time for the creators to adopt it, then it will take time for the buyers to adopt what the creators are doing.

A cascading upgrade that will be good for everyone using the grid.

Edited by Alyona Su
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1 hour ago, OptimoMaximo said:

Because instead of reviving an old, long dead feature, LL coukd have just put all this time and efforts in a revised and extended material system that woukd allow to layer full materials on ALL types of content, not just avatars. With all the bells and whistles that come with a brand new system, instead of all the caveats / problems arising from trying to adapt something old that can't handle materials out of the box. If this projecy would have taken 1/6 of the time it took, maybe it might have been something  worth that time and related effort, but at this level of issues still there on release without materials and partially working alphas, and the time taken, it's a failure. 

Well, can't deny that you have a really good point. But it's SL, everything it's always half implemented. That doesn't makes BOM a failure still. 

By the time that we got materials it was already outdated. I don't see a better system anytime soon, SL development it's not just slow but it also lacks useful features for creators that could help grow the market and the user base. It has been always like that and not sure who it's responsible of that but as long as that person or persons are still in the team, we won't see any changes there. I myself have requested very useful features that would help increase performance and quality but instead we may get another feature that no one asked for except the typical guy that goes to every single meeting even tho it doesn't represents the majority of SL users neither is a knowledgeable creator. But hey, we will be able to save WL to inventory. It may take two years of development but I am sure that a lot of people that left SL and even new ones may come and stay since it's a really requested feature. Oh wait... 

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9 hours ago, Alyona Su said:
10 hours ago, OptimoMaximo said:

efforts in

I don't think you understand, at all, the *purpose* of Bakes on Mesh

Oh, *I* do, who doesn't understand the implications and benefits from my intervention (which you clearly skipped, seen how you jumped on an excerpt of it) is you, but i don't expect your understanding of the subject matter either. What i was saying would have largely covered what BoM does and would have gone much beyond. 

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7 hours ago, OptimoMaximo said:

Oh, *I* do, who doesn't understand the implications and benefits from my intervention (which you clearly skipped, seen how you jumped on an excerpt of it) is you, but i don't expect your understanding of the subject matter either. What i was saying would have largely covered what BoM does and would have gone much beyond. 

It might fail to provide what you want it to, but that doesn't mean it's failed doing what LL intended it to do or for what many of us want it to do, thereby being a success.

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7 hours ago, OptimoMaximo said:

Oh, *I* do, who doesn't understand the implications and benefits from my intervention (which you clearly skipped, seen how you jumped on an excerpt of it) is you, but i don't expect your understanding of the subject matter either. What i was saying would have largely covered what BoM does and would have gone much beyond. 

If you understand the intended *purpose* of BoM then why is your whine about the effort to create it based on subjects other than the purpose? Someone invents tricycle based on a bicycle and you proclaim it's a wasted effort because it's old tech and the handlebars aren't right, totally ignoring the actual purpose and reason for creating it. Go figure.

Edited by Alyona Su
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There seems to be a lot of confusion as to what terms belong where.
Yes, B.O.M. or, Bakes On Mesh, is a nifty tool.

The PRIMARY PURPOSE is for people with Mesh bodies to use OLD CLOTHING AND SKINS.  That stuff you have floating around in your inventory that may or may not have cost you actual money.

Skins are a set of 3-4 textures, if you include the hair.

Clothing is also 1-4 textures, if you're just using the regular old stuff.

Textures are detailed images giving an area a look, such as clothing, tattoos and cosmetics.

Materials are also known as *Faces, or *Zones.  They define where the above textures mete up with.

Yes, it would be nice if the uploader was fixed so that creators could label and forget in their tool of choice, (lower_body, upper_body, etc.) and have the B.O.M. auto assign the default basic beta version textures to the right zones*.
Yes, it would be extremely wonderful if there were some sort of Data Core that could be placed on an animesh to allow B.O.M. to work on single layer animesh items.

But as someone noted, the heads haven't been replaced or even really taken a vacation to get fresh eyes on the problem.

They're doing great work, don't need to harsh their groove.

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