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Alexa Linden

Bakes on Mesh Feedback Thread

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Kitsune Shan said:

Or why if they worn the new asset "universal tattoo" for the skin, it's hidding all their tattoos behind it. Explain to them that they need to dettach all their make up, tattoos and clothing before applying a skin made with the "universal tattoo" and to wear all of them all over after it. Believe me that I know pretty well how things works and what people need and how. I have been long enough in SL to know all these details.

Then why do you apparently not know that you can set up the universal for only those channels that aren't already supported by existing assets so it won't cover anything in the old channels?

Edited by Theresa Tennyson

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1 minute ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Then why do you apparently not know that you can set up the universal for only those channels that aren't already supported by existing assets so it won't cover anything in those channels?

I hope that you aren't suggesting that people should wear skin + universal tattoo to use as a single skin layer because that would be a total disaster. If you create an avatar that uses the default channels plus the new leg and arm ones, you should make it simple for all the users to simply wear one and not to explain to them that they need to wear the skin then the rest of of their skin as a separated item using something meant for tattoos. Making SL already more confusing wont help existing users and even less to new ones if they come.

 

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Kitsune Shan said:

I hope that you aren't suggesting that people should wear skin + universal tattoo to use as a single skin layer because that would be a total disaster. If you create an avatar that uses the default channels plus the new leg and arm ones, you should make it simple for all the users to simply wear one and not to explain to them that they need to wear the skin then the rest of of their skin as a separated item using something meant for tattoos. Making SL already more confusing wont help existing users and even less to new ones if they come.

 

So, adding a separate item to handle new channels would be a "total disaster", but forced updates for everyone's viewers is "not an issue any more"? (The screaming about Singularity I mentioned earlier was from this summer.) The vast majority of avatar customization in Second Life involves wearing multiple items, often arcane and inexplicable. If that was a major problem the avatar customization business wouldn't exist at all.

The new channels are a good thing in general but waiting for the entire project until they're perfect when the existing channels which 16 years of Second Life are build on already work is a perfect example of the tail wagging the dog.

 

Edited by Theresa Tennyson

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2 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

So, adding a separate item to handle new channels would be a "total disaster", but forced updates for everyone's viewers is "not an issue any more"? (The screaming about Singularity I mentioned earlier was from this summer.) The vast majority of avatar customization in Second Life involves wearing multiple items, often arcane and inexplicable. If that was a major problem the avatar customization business wouldn't exist at all.

The new channels are a good thing in general but waiting for the entire project until they're perfect when the existing channels which 16 years of Second Life are build on already work is a perfect example of the tail wagging the dog.

 

You may be a conformist that finds everything fine as long as other has to deal with the limits and restrictions of half implemented features. As creator, I want it to work as it's expected on a minimal way and everyone expect those extra channels to work properly and be able to use alpha mask there.

And no, updating it's not a huge issue. You can't expect a 2 years old viewer to keep working nowday. Is not like there isn't a huge variety of alternatives already. I liked the old interface too but time changes and has been a really long run already. We can't keep looking at the past, SL has to move forward or it will die sooner than expected. So if people has to be force to update knowing some months before it happens, it wont be a big deal. BOM will require updated viewers anyway so your comment it's still being ridiculous. What's the point of having BOM if people will keep using old viewers and seeing your avatar with replacement textures??

BOM needs fixes and improvements, like it or not but it's a fact and creators are aware of that already. There is even a huge bug regarding transparency and how they are blending the alpha channels of all the stacked textures and you still want this to be released? Patience it's a virtue. Just wait for them to finish this properly then you will be able to go back to your favorite system clothing that you has been saving all these years of no wearing mesh resistence. It will happen eventually, why not to happen properly without issues? :D 

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Kitsune Shan said:


BOM needs fixes and improvements, like it or not but it's a fact and creators are aware of that already. There is even a huge bug regarding transparency and how they are blending the alpha channels of all the stacked textures and you still want this to be released?

I created the JIRA for that issue and it's fixed.

Edited by Theresa Tennyson
Removed an unproductively hostile phrase.
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12 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

I created the JIRA for that issue and it's fixed.

I can't open jiras neither read most of them :D. But that doesn't changes the fact that BOM isn't ready and need some tweaks and improvements regarding assets. 

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Personally for me, I can understand the "left arm" slot being a thing, but I don't really understand why they added a "left leg" as well. The legs already got a full UV for the entire lower body, it was only the arms they had using a mirrored section on the UV

As for the alpha stuff, I can easily guess one issue with that is because the alpha layer itself. I imagine it would probably need a Left Leg/Arm slot of it's own, but would that have the same supposed "crashing old veiwers" problem that prevented them from expanding on the other older skin/texture layer stuff?

 

Ya know, that's something else I've been wondering about, I've heard mention of some older viewers crashing from attempted changes, but just how old are those viewers in question?🤔

 

12 hours ago, Tazzie Tuque said:

I have been following this thread for a long time now, and I gather that BoM is almost here.. I am so hoping when it does get here that it will NOT be a complicated thing to figure out neither to use nor to create items..  I have just not had the time to test it out myself.. wish I had.. Because so far it does not seem that it will be all that easy use.  I do hope I am wrong though.

What did ya find hard about it?

It seemed pretty straight forward, you can wear the old skin stuff with the mesh bodies now, along with clothing texture layers, tattoos, and even alphas!

I think the only oddity might be the initial step of linking the models faces to the bake channels, but even then, not too terribly hard to figure out, and I imagine most body makers wanting to support BoM will include copies of their bodies already set up to work with BoM out of the box. Then it's just simply, wearing skin,texture,etc layers like the old days.

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50 minutes ago, Digit Gears said:

As for the alpha stuff, I can easily guess one issue with that is because the alpha layer itself. I imagine it would probably need a Left Leg/Arm slot of it's own, but would that have the same supposed "crashing old veiwers" problem that prevented them from expanding on the other older skin/texture layer stuff?

But that's the thing. Alpha masking it's not a simple feature to left behind, it's a key point for BOM. And I can understand the issues of updating old assets (to which I already suggested a solution anyway) but if they could create an Universal Tattoo, they could also create an Universal Alpha for the same matter. The point here it's that we really need these preferibly on all channels but having arm and leg would be enough. Isn't a matter about discussing if it's possible or not because, obviously, it's possible and there is always workarounds and fixes for any issue that could appear neither we should discuss about it's difficulty to implement beccause wether it's hard or easier it may be subjetive and it still doesn't changes the fact that it's necessary to be able to use BOM. Not sure if people realized this already but it wont have any more use beyond avatars. The examples about using it for clothing pieces makes no sense and would make it completely unnecesary.

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1 hour ago, Kitsune Shan said:

But that's the thing. Alpha masking it's not a simple feature to left behind, it's a key point for BOM. And I can understand the issues of updating old assets (to which I already suggested a solution anyway) but if they could create an Universal Tattoo, they could also create an Universal Alpha for the same matter. The point here it's that we really need these preferibly on all channels but having arm and leg would be enough. Isn't a matter about discussing if it's possible or not because, obviously, it's possible and there is always workarounds and fixes for any issue that could appear neither we should discuss about it's difficulty to implement beccause wether it's hard or easier it may be subjetive and it still doesn't changes the fact that it's necessary to be able to use BOM.

I think there should be exactly what you're saying; I created the JIRA to request it months ago and keep bringing it up. But that doesn't change the fact that it isn't necessary to use BOM - I'm using it without that particular feature right now.

2 hours ago, Kitsune Shan said:

 Not sure if people realized this already but it wont have any more use beyond avatars. The examples about using it for clothing pieces makes no sense and would make it completely unnecesary.

Right now there's a line of mesh T-shirts on the market that allow the end user to apply their own logo, words, etc. to it while using the fabric textures and shading that are from the shirt. In order to do that the shirt needs to have a separate alpha face and the logo will glitch under mesh hair. If the shirt texture was put on using one of the aux channels the end user could put their logo on using an additional universal wearable, saving a face and a displayed texture and getting rid of the alpha glitch problem.

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On 7/26/2019 at 12:51 PM, Theresa Tennyson said:

...If the shirt texture was put on using one of the aux channels the end user could put their logo on using an additional universal wearable, saving a face and a displayed texture and getting rid of the alpha glitch problem. 

Exactly what I did in my test in the video (the star trek dress). And probably I'll use it in some clothing, at least for the little alien. Being able to apply more than one layer of universal wearable will let users to change the color of the t-shirt just changing the color parameter while maintaining the logo. Less textures to upload. less faces to deal with in the mesh when rigging. And infinite possibilities.

Of course it can be a mess if you use a mesh t-shirt that uses aux1 and a pant that uses the same aux1. But in my case, since I'm working on alien races bodies with the first clothes made by my own too, just define upper is aux1 and lower is aux2. I was playing with it, and was having a lot of fun with what I could do and my mistakes.

On 7/26/2019 at 9:47 AM, Digit Gears said:

I think the only oddity might be the initial step of linking the models faces to the bake channels, but even then, not too terribly hard to figure out, and I imagine most body makers wanting to support BoM will include copies of their bodies already set up to work with BoM out of the box. Then it's just simply, wearing skin,texture,etc layers like the old days.

Setting the face to bake channels is easy (I can say ridiculous easy). Just wear the mesh, set faces to bake channels, detach. Done. Send to you alt to wear and be happy. Work nicely as the system avatar in the old days.

For someone that dropped the dream of conquering the work with a legion of aliens, er, creating custom non-human body mesh, just because don't want to go lagging around with onion bodies, the actual state of BoM is just the best thing that -almost- happened (pass donuts to make devs happy and make it happen).

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I really hope this is still being developed.  I don't like how I can't wear multiple layers of the same kind of clothing on mesh avatars as they are now.

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On 8/2/2019 at 7:34 AM, NeevaBecketEmagan said:

Any news? (RL made me lost the meeting again :/)

They did some switchawoo among the review teams to get fresh eyes on them, and currently in the process of well, reviewing. We'll probably find out the results of it so far by the time the next group meets start up again.

On 8/2/2019 at 10:33 AM, Lucierda Solari said:

I really hope this is still being developed.  I don't like how I can't wear multiple layers of the same kind of clothing on mesh avatars as they are now.

It's still being worked on, it's possibly on the final stretch in fact!

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On 8/4/2019 at 10:33 PM, Digit Gears said:

They did some switchawoo among the review teams to get fresh eyes on them, and currently in the process of well, reviewing. We'll probably find out the results of it so far by the time the next group meets start up again.

It's still being worked on, it's possibly on the final stretch in fact!

The switch I saw in the meeting before the last one. I hope they don't tip the toes in a too stinky bug in this final stretch.

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From Inara Pey blog, if someone is wondering how it is going:

  • Still a number of bugs to be resolved, and Vir is now working on these as well as the Animesh follow-on (below). These include, but are not limited to:
    • Shadows are failing to render correctly.
    • Issues with some alpha settings.
  • Otherwise, most of the functionality is now believed to be in place.

https://modemworld.me/2019/08/15/2019-sl-user-groups-33-2-content-creation-summary/

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Bakes On Mesh finally released!!! :D

Hopefully it won't take long for the 3rd Party viewers to incorporate it.

Here is the announcement:

 

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Is anyone else having issues with the official release with bakes on mesh crashing on login? I can't get it to work at all, I did a clean reinstall and even tweaked some things on my computer and it just refuses to work.. I hope I don't have to wait for the third party viewers to catch up!

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7 minutes ago, Cissy March said:

I upload my mesh body and try to apply bake on it, but the button is grayd out..what can be the reason for that?

You need to be wearing the body to set the bake instead of being able to set it when it's rezzed from the ground.

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What is the purpose of the new AUX channels ?
I am afraid that each creator would do his/her own use of these channels and bring to incompatibilities between products.
Do I miss something ?

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I just made some tests with the new Universal, notably on the HEAD TATTOO slot and it seems the UNIVERSAL is always ABOVE the other SKIN or TATTOO clothes without taking into account the wearing order.
Is it normal ? Why is it so ? Is it a bug ?

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