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Alexa Linden

Bakes on Mesh Feedback Thread

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Just now, Fionalein said:

I think you missed a critical step - wouldn't the skin also be painted on the outer layer then?

Yes, as I mentioned before.

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46 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Yes, as I mentioned before.

my bad... indeed you did

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when is this coming out to normal viewer like sl viewer and firestorm viewer? i know i am asking hope else question 

I know i have to wait!

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2 hours ago, Vellie Wasp said:

when is this coming out to normal viewer like sl viewer and firestorm viewer? i know i am asking hope else question 

I know i have to wait!

Third party viewers (all of them) tend to have fewer actual releases than LL, simply due to them being volunteer projects, as such big Linden features tend to be held back till they are 99.9% finished. Release days are crazy enough for ourselves and firestrorm already without having to do it all again, in a panic, 2 days later because of a last minute LL change.

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Ya know, something I've wondered about a few times, I recall some mentioning that there was some initial thing they tried that just wrecked havoc on older viewers, and I kind of wonder just how old of a viewer where they talkin 🤔

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I have been testing with 6.3.0.528495 viewer for a few days now and I really am impressed at how well BoM works. I have 1024 skin Textures and they pop on a mesh body. Better made Tattoos are amazing. High quality texture clothing looks better than with appliers. Several under garments added like stockings and panties are no problem. I have nothing but problems with more than one applier at a time in a mesh body hud. It took me awhile to figure it it out because nobody seemed to know anything about it. Now I know what works and plan on trying new Ideas I have. I used copies of my body and head for BoM outfits so I can switch back and forth seamlessly with no weirdly colored mesh parts. I will happily share what I learned with anybody that would like that. The top is mesh, the skin, Capri pants, stockings, panties (under Capri pants) are system textures. I made the skin in 2013 and did it over in 1024 textures for this.

 

AA-Ory-BoM.png

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Posted (edited)

Ooh boy, BoM might be gettin closer and closer 👀

"Note: there is a Bakes On Mesh review meeting scheduled for Friday, July 19th, at which the issues mentioned in the first bullet point will be examined. If these are determined to be edge cases, and no other issues are noted, the Bakes on Mesh project is liable to be moving to release status “very soon”. Creator wishing to test the capability are therefore asked to download the Bakes On Mesh RC viewer and use it and report and bugs or issues they encounter “right away”."

From one of Inara's recent blog posts

https://modemworld.me/2019/07/19/2019-sl-user-groups-29-2-content-creation-summary/

 

Edited by Digit Gears
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I have found that by doing some research on here, YouTube, and Google for SL Vlogs, BoM is already a done deal ... at least on the user end. I have found that someone made a BoM Applier over a year ago that is still on the marketplace and another user has a full mesh avatar that is BoM without an applier. The problem isn't making BoM in SL. The problem is SEEING IT. To put a finer point on it, it's not us, it's them. We HAVE BoM RIGHT NOW, but unless you have a copy of the BETA viewer, you can't see it. Like a few years ago when mesh was first introduced, if you didn't have a viewer that could view mesh, all you saw were avatars that were invisible with little black boxes floating over them, or other messes instead of people.Same thing here. We the users have already made BoM available with working applier and even BoM products ready to roll out but we're waiting for a viewer to see it.

Side note, I hope it comes out very soon because #1, this has been in development for over a year and we've already made working BoM products in that year's time and #2 there are lots of clothing, skins, etc. stores that are dying because they can't make mesh clothes. BoM will not only revive them, but help them thrive once again. And #3 (and I have to throw this out there) mesh clothes are EXPENSIVE. You could buy layer clothes for like L$25 or even whole outfits and skins for L$100 or less. Now we have L$50 Fridays and Saturday sale events with 50-75L$ for outfits and clothing that costs well over L$200 normally. What is this? Virtual Gap? Neiman Marcus? Gucci?

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Well, here's to hoping that review they did last week came out positive, I'm sure we're bound to hear the results at todays meet!

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1 hour ago, Digit Gears said:

Well, here's to hoping that review they did last week came out positive, I'm sure we're bound to hear the results at todays meet!

Preparing a batch of fresh and yummy donuts to give to devs, hopping they say "Yes, it's ready, releasing next week".

Now I'm just playing a little more with it, because I didn't had much time before. I'll put a video later.

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Posted (edited)

I did a simple video playing with my alien body. I was mostly doing a test on using the Aux channel in a mesh clothing piece, just to be able to add a badge to a dress. (The video has legends to explaing some parts).

Just ignore the low quality textures, I made them very quickly only for tests.

PS: I was without sound at creators meeting, lost what they said about BoM :/ (but something say to me "next year, maybe")

Edited by NeevaBecketEmagan

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7 hours ago, Lucita Sorrowsong said:

I have found that by doing some research on here, YouTube, and Google for SL Vlogs, BoM is already a done deal ... at least on the user end. I have found that someone made a BoM Applier over a year ago that is still on the marketplace and another user has a full mesh avatar that is BoM without an applier. The problem isn't making BoM in SL. The problem is SEEING IT. To put a finer point on it, it's not us, it's them. We HAVE BoM RIGHT NOW, but unless you have a copy of the BETA viewer, you can't see it. Like a few years ago when mesh was first introduced, if you didn't have a viewer that could view mesh, all you saw were avatars that were invisible with little black boxes floating over them, or other messes instead of people.Same thing here. We the users have already made BoM available with working applier and even BoM products ready to roll out but we're waiting for a viewer to see it.

Side note, I hope it comes out very soon because #1, this has been in development for over a year and we've already made working BoM products in that year's time and #2 there are lots of clothing, skins, etc. stores that are dying because they can't make mesh clothes. BoM will not only revive them, but help them thrive once again. And #3 (and I have to throw this out there) mesh clothes are EXPENSIVE. You could buy layer clothes for like L$25 or even whole outfits and skins for L$100 or less. Now we have L$50 Fridays and Saturday sale events with 50-75L$ for outfits and clothing that costs well over L$200 normally. What is this? Virtual Gap? Neiman Marcus? Gucci?

I am not sure if bake on mesh it's ready. I have found issues with transparencies and let's not talk about the lack of alpha masking for the new channels including the arm and leg ones which makes them quite useless. 

Not sure if you have been around enough but, actually, mesh clothing it's the cheapest. Layer clothing was like 500 to 650L$ a single color most of the time being 400 the cheaper. Surely there were cheaper ones just like today there are very cheap mesh ones but the average mesh today its 250L$ and that's half of what it was before mesh.

Bake on mesh needs fixes but above all we need alpha mask for the new channels or at least for arm and leg channels so they can be used for avatars. I prefer to get all that sorted than a rushed half done release. 

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2 hours ago, Kitsune Shan said:

Bake on mesh needs fixes but above all we need alpha mask for the new channels or at least for arm and leg channels so they can be used for avatars. I prefer to get all that sorted than a rushed half done release.

Masking on top of the stacks seems to have been discussed as a possible follow-up feature for BoM.

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I have been following this thread for a long time now, and I gather that BoM is almost here.. I am so hoping when it does get here that it will NOT be a complicated thing to figure out neither to use nor to create items..  I have just not had the time to test it out myself.. wish I had.. Because so far it does not seem that it will be all that easy use.  I do hope I am wrong though.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Masking on top of the stacks seems to have been discussed as a possible follow-up feature for BoM.

I think it's a must have feature. There is literally no sense on creating BOM and not adding the alpha masking capabilities to all extra channels considering that they are meant to be used for avatars. Even more when we talk about the arm and leg channels that have been made and named specifically for avatars. If we use those channels for an avatar, we wouldn't be able to wear clothing there as we can't hide these parts. BOM already works fine with the already existing alpha masking items, we just need either get the alpha masking item extended to use the new channels or a new asset that could be just like the Universal Tattoo just for alphas and probably called Universal Alpha. Also using Universal Tattoo it's also pretty confusing for most users. We have an Universal Tatttoo but not an Universal Skin which leaves the base layers of the extra channels unused. I know that they can stack one on top of each other but will still be confusing that you can wear the base layer wearing a skin for the common channels yet for the new ones you can't wear a skin but a tattoo layer.... All we needed it's to add extra slots to the already existing assets inlcuding skin and clothing but I guess, like always, we need to get the things weirdly implemented to make sure that everything it's more complicated for users than necessary. To me, the inclusion of the extra channels to the existing assets (or creating new assets with them) seemed like the option that made more sense. Using a new asset for only one purpose leaving the rest behind seems like a pretty lazy way of executing a very simple idea.

Edited by Kitsune Shan
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7 hours ago, Kitsune Shan said:

All we needed it's to add extra slots to the already existing assets inlcuding skin and clothing but I guess, like always, we need to get the things weirdly implemented to make sure that everything it's more complicated for users than necessary. To me, the inclusion of the extra channels to the existing assets (or creating new assets with them) seemed like the option that made more sense. Using a new asset for only one purpose leaving the rest behind seems like a pretty lazy way of executing a very simple idea.

Are you volunteering to explain to anyone who uses an older viewer why their viewer is crashing? Because they originally planned to do exactly what you're suggesting and that's what happened.

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9 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Are you volunteering to explain to anyone who uses an older viewer why their viewer is crashing? Because they originally planned to do exactly what you're suggesting and that's what happened.

There are two ways of doing things always. If updating existing assets could be troublesome (it shouldn't) there is always the possibility of adding new ones.
But then, I am not programmer so there is absolutely no reason for me to know something like that. This is a 16 years old game developed by a professional company, not an indie game. I am not either being paid to do so, LL employes are. In fact, I was giving away around 150 to 250$ monthly just on cashout, let's not talk about money conversion and other fees. And that was when it was still 2.5%, now it's double that amount. I guess I have all the rights to at least point when something isn't right.

Besides all that, I understand the problems that could happen from all this but the solution it's even simpler than that. Update all viewers before BOM it's released to make them compatible with the new assets. After a couple of months with new viewers capable of handling the new assets, block the older ones and release BOM. The viewers will be ready for the new type of asset and no one would crash because they had a fix for the new type of asset since a couple of months. Or, the complex way, fix it properly so it doesn't crash on older viewers. That a new feature crashes a new viewer is not something that big deal. Obviously you wont release BOM and make everyone update on the same day. Instead, relesae updated viewers and let them work together among older viewers untill everyone have updated then release BOM. I don't mind waiting some months as long as we don't get anything half done.

 

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10 hours ago, Tazzie Tuque said:

I have been following this thread for a long time now, and I gather that BoM is almost here.. I am so hoping when it does get here that it will NOT be a complicated thing to figure out neither to use nor to create items..  I have just not had the time to test it out myself.. wish I had.. Because so far it does not seem that it will be all that easy use.  I do hope I am wrong though.

If you're using a current mesh body and/or head that supports Omega appliers all you need to do is get a free applier and click a button and your avatar will be able to use system skins and wearables exactly the same way the default body does. Current bodies on the market won't support worn alphas but the current alpha cut/HUD systems will work exactly the same way they do now, and the bodies can be updated by their makers to allow worn alphas to be used in a matter of minutes. Clothing wearables can be made using exactly the same textures as currently are being used by appliers. The people making this sound complicated are generally the ones who haven't used or understand the process.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Kitsune Shan said:

There are two ways of doing things always. If updating existing assets could be troublesome (it shouldn't) there is always the possibility of adding new ones.
But then, I am not programmer so there is absolutely no reason for me to know something like that.

Then why are you saying how things should be done if you don't know what's involved or what will happen?

Existing assets were troublesome. Many users of Second Life are notoriously reluctant to change viewers. People were screaming about mesh because they didn't want to stop using Phoenix or Viewer 1.23 so mesh had to be made in a way that wouldn't crash those viewers. If you look in the technical threads there are people who are screaming about Singularity not working when UDP fetching was removed and Singularity hasn't had an official (i.e. non-alpha) release since the middle of 2016. Those people are also sending money to Linden Lab, and the employees are being paid to accommodate them too.

Edited by Theresa Tennyson

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1 minute ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Then why are you saying how things should be done if you don't know what's involved or what will happen?

Existing assets were troublesome. Many users of Second Life are notoriously reluctant to change viewers. People were screaming about mesh because they didn't want to stop using Phoenix or Viewer 1.23 so mesh had to be made in a way that wouldn't crash those viewers. If you look in the technical threads there are people who are screaming about Singularity not working when UDP fetching was removed and Singularity hasn't had an official (i.e. non-alpha) release since the middle of 2016. Those people are also sending money to Linden Lab, and the employees are being paid to accommodate them too.

Even tho I am not programmer, I know how things should be and could be done as I have some programming knowledge. But that's doesn't matter. There is a requirement for BOM to be something beyond a gimmick and it's to be able to use the same features than the old assets had. It doesn't matter if they are new or old updated assets. If you can't use alpha masking on the new channels then it's useless before even being released.

Your example it's quite ridiculous. Making people update viewer is not an issue anymore. We don't need them to migrate to a whole different viewer. Viewers with fixes are being released often and older viewers gets blocked daily so there is no issue on updating the viewer before BOM it's released and let some months for people to update. You say so as if my suggestion would only benefit me and not the rest of the residents lol. Seriously, read what I suggested. If you think that releasing BOM on it's actual state will be something good for the average user, wait for them to ask why they can't hide the arm and leg channel when wearing alpha mask or why they have to use a tattoo layer to wear skins and clothing. Or why if they worn the new asset "universal tattoo" for the skin, it's hidding all their tattoos behind it. Explain to them that they need to dettach all their make up, tattoos and clothing before applying a skin made with the "universal tattoo" and to wear all of them all over after it. Believe me that I know pretty well how things works and what people need and how. I have been long enough in SL to know all these details. I don't want BOM to be rushed just because few people that aren't even part of the creators' community wantnit now not even knowing the technical aspects behind a rushed version.

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