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Alexa Linden

Bakes on Mesh Feedback Thread

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Shnurui Troughton said:

No, we don't want uuid(s) shared, if that even works.

You're funny... that's exactley how BOM works. You use the UUID of the complete bake in an applier script, duh...

Just because you don't usually see it because it happens automatically behind your back does not mean that it does not work that way ;)

Which raises an interesting question @Vir Linden how do you make sure no one uses someone else's bake? Or could I happily redistribute my bake onto my alts for now (which designers will find pretty uncool)?

Edited by Fionalein

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30 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Which raises an interesting question @Vir Linden how do you make sure no one uses someone else's bake? Or could I happily redistribute my bake onto my alts for now (which designers will find pretty uncool)?

You can't redistribute your baked UUID to your alts or anyone else.  All avatars use the same UUIDs for the head, upper body , lower body , eyes, hair and skirt.  If you were to give someone your UUID it wouldn't work because they are already using the same UUID for their LL default avatar.  Think of it this way everyone has the same UUIDs for the different parts of their default LL avatar.  So say for the head textures the UUID was 1234.  You bake your textures for your avatar by wearing a skin and a tattoo.  The skin and tattoo are baked to one texture UUID 1234.  Then UUID 1234 is applied to your default LL avatar.  So when someone come in the same sim or within your draw distance the veiwer gets the UUID of 1234 for that person say me Cathy Foil.  My viewer gets the UUID 1234 for you Fionalien.  It is the same UUID so even if I have a script that says to apply UUID 1234 all I would see is the texture of my own skin and tattoo baked to a single texture and not yours.

The actual UUID for the head is "11c5d053-0ea9-a529-46cb-351d4e84d17a".  Your head and everyone else.  So giving the UUIDs doesn't give them your baked baked textures.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Internal_Textures

As for someone stealing textures using BoM.  Yes it is possible but there are so much easier ways to steal a texture.  All textures are stored on your computer and are not hard to find if you know where to look.  Also there are certain viewers which will grab any texture people want even off other avatars within a split second.  Textures are perhaps the least secure type of item in SL.  Those who make and sell textures in SL I am sure already know this.

Worrying about BoM is like worrying if you shut your porthole in your cabin on the Titanic as it is sinking.  Shutting it isn't really going to make any difference.

In my opinion the huge benefits of BoM far outweigh the small disadvantage.

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7 hours ago, Sean Heavy said:

In addition to having classic skins and clothes appear on my mesh body, the final baked texture also appears on my HUD in a flat square area. That area of my HUD is very small, but it would be very easy to expand that area of the HUD and display the baked texture big enough to grab a copy of the normally not seen texture. I thought this was not going to be allowed. I am guessing a few content creators would not be happy about this happening with access to any of their classic skins/clothings.

There's no point in disallowing BOM textures to be used on a HUD. It won't prevent anyone who wants to rip the texture that way from doing so.
You could just attach a large default cube to your avatar on a non-HUD attachment point & display a BOM texture on it & take a high resolution screenshot of the cube face.

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1 hour ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

There's no point in disallowing BOM textures to be used on a HUD. It won't prevent anyone who wants to rip the texture that way from doing so.
You could just attach a large default cube to your avatar on a non-HUD attachment point & display a BOM texture on it & take a high resolution screenshot of the cube face.

You're saying that as if people used logic when evaluating hazards.

I'm in favor of making it impossible to use bakes on items worn on HUD points, not because it's particularly effective but to create the illusion of security. It seems too easy to steal skin graphics with HUD items now.

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8 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

I'm in favor of making it impossible to use bakes on items worn on HUD points, not because it's particularly effective but to create the illusion of security. It seems too easy to steal skin graphics with HUD items now.

So if folks wear their HUDs on their bodies it should work again? Now this is confusing, will be annyoning to implement and helps nothing. You don't work for Microsoft RL by chance?

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2 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

So if folks wear their HUDs on their bodies it should work again? Now this is confusing, will be annyoning to implement and helps nothing. You don't work for Microsoft RL by chance?

Theresa Tennyson sighs.

Put a check in the system that will suppress showing the bake on an item attached to a HUD point. Yes, of course, as multiple people have said there are other ways of doing it, but the HUD exploit is the one people keep bringing up.

Considering all your many comments on the "limitations" and "problems" of this project, have you ever actually logged into the project viewer and tried it?

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2 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

... have you ever actually logged into the project viewer and tried it?

I would if the Lab had provided one for my OS... they didn't, so all I can do is guess how it works ;)

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6 hours ago, Fionalein said:

I would if the Lab had provided one for my OS...

You can run all SL viewers with Wine. Very well in fact.

6 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Put a check in the system that will suppress showing the bake on an item attached to a HUD point.

At a very minimum.

 

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On 2/7/2019 at 11:44 AM, Blush Bravin said:

I'm really hoping that creators will do a plain BoM body with no onion layers, and provide a separate onion layer for applier clothing that can be attached when needed.

As one who much prefers applier stockings to mesh stockings, I really want that separate layer so the toe area of my stockings and socks fit properly. There's no way I want to have my socks wrap around my toes as though it's my skin rather than a sock. I also use tank tops under many of my mesh shirts that have too low a v-cut and prefer that the fabric of the tank not mold to the skin between the breasts so again, I need an onion layer to accomplish my desired look.

I am really excited and looking forward to BoM, though I have to admit that many in my circle of friends have grave misgivings about how well the feature is going to be accepted, especially with the problem related to using their thousands of appliers that simply will not work with BoM. 

 

 

That is the reason the default avatar has one toe and no separate toe nail objects.

For us creators to produce a completely onion free avatar, it either has to the ultra simple, like a rag doll rabbit (Boid's nest) or mechanical.

Anything with separate toe nails will need the nails alpha layered out.

Anything with separate toes will need to be layered, even for socks.

20 hours ago, Fionalein said:

You're funny... that's exactley how BOM works. You use the UUID of the complete bake in an applier script, duh...

Just because you don't usually see it because it happens automatically behind your back does not mean that it does not work that way ;)

Which raises an interesting question @Vir Linden how do you make sure no one uses someone else's bake? Or could I happily redistribute my bake onto my alts for now (which designers will find pretty uncool)?

Ha ha hilarious.

See Cathy's post:

Tldr version:

Unique User IDs are unique to each user.  They should not be accessible when they aren't in the current user's inventory.

My skins and tartans that are not in the default library, should, not be visible in a HUD, without the transfer of that texture, into the HUD or inventory of the EU.

The only way his transfer HUD should work is if he drops a copy or transfer texture into it.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/20/2019 at 4:18 AM, CoffeeDujour said:

You can run all SL viewers with Wine. Very well in fact.

But not perfectly. There are some weird crashes and mayhaps my biggest gripe is this:

Do you know a way to replace the tiny Windows 98'ish file selection box with a more gnomish one? That Windows 98 file select is very difficult to use for people with 4K monitors, bad eyesight, or messy work directories... or all three.

e275d528f9fc6349874d5614f6151a55-png.jpg.f7651fea8d7a53f2a42042921275a81d.jpg

As a creator, I upload stuff *a lot*

Edited by Shudo

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Posted (edited)
On 3/19/2019 at 9:01 PM, Theresa Tennyson said:

not because it's particularly effective but to create the illusion of security.

An Illusion of security is about the worst reason on earth for implimenting something.

It's well studied and well documented. This is how it fails:

The Lab impliment your idea to give creators a warm fuzzy feeling.
Creators feel relaxed and make stuff.
The news gets out - as it always does that this is just window dressing.
The creators feel let down and angry, and they blame the lab.

And this is the important part:

They feel more let down finding out it was a sham then if the illusion they were protected was never there.

There is no technical way to stop someone ripping a texture, either from BOM, or from mesh appliers as they stand right now... it's so trivial it's laughable.

Don't give people false hope with illusions of security, you will only hurt their feelings.

Edited by Shudo
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4 hours ago, Shudo said:

Do you know a way to replace the tiny Windows 98'ish file selection box with a more gnomish one?

If you use Catznip you can just drag and drop stuff onto the viewer ..

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10 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

If you use Catznip you can just drag and drop stuff onto the viewer ..

OMG. I didn't know this! The newest Catznip is the bestest viewer aver and I've used them all! Amazing performance and more and more little things like this make Catznip a continually pleasant surprise.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

If you use Catznip you can just drag and drop stuff onto the viewer ..

OMG. That's exactly how it should be done!

Edited by Shudo

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Posted (edited)

Vir Linden announced earlier today at the Content Creators meeting that Bakes On Mesh in now in RC (Release Candidate)!!! :D

This is the last step before it is officially released as a new feature in SL. :)

The Bakes On Mesh viewer has a new update.  One major change is the UUIDs for the head, upper body, lower body, skirt, hair and eyes ended up changing to fix a bug.  So any current script that uses the old UUIDs will no longer work.  The Bakes On Mesh Omega test appliers will have to be updated to the new UUIDs.

This is wonderful news and if all goes smoothly we might see Bakes On Mesh released soon. :D

Update: Forgot to add link to where you can download the RC viewer for BoM http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alternate_Viewers

Edited by Cathy Foil
Forgot to add link to release candidate for Bakes On Mesh

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4 minutes ago, Cathy Foil said:

The Bakes On Mesh viewer has a new update.  One major change is the UUIDs for the head, upper body, lower body, skirt, hair and eyes ended up changing to fix a bug.  So any current script that uses the old UUIDs will no longer work.  The Bakes On Mesh Omega test appliers will have to be updated to the new UUIDs.

I just hope all those creators who prematurely released BoM stuff will be fixing it now...

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2 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

I just hope all those creators who prematurely released BoM stuff will be fixing it now...

Vir said LL will be updating the Wiki page that has the UUID information on it soon.  It will be a super easy fix of just replacing the UUID numbers in their scripts once they get them.
Any creator who releases stuff during beta testing should already know that doing so their stuff might get broken and they will need to fix it.  Vir always discourages people from selling items for any new features while they are still in beta testing.

The only product I know that is available right now is the BoM Omega test appliers and that is free I believe but I am sure it will be updates ASAP.  Do you know of any other products up for sale for BoM?

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25 minutes ago, Cathy Foil said:

Vir said LL will be updating the Wiki page that has the UUID information on it soon.  It will be a super easy fix of just replacing the UUID numbers in their scripts once they get them.
Any creator who releases stuff during beta testing should already know that doing so their stuff might get broken and they will need to fix it.  Vir always discourages people from selling items for any new features while they are still in beta testing.

The only product I know that is available right now is the BoM Omega test appliers and that is free I believe but I am sure it will be updates ASAP.  Do you know of any other products up for sale for BoM?

Lelutka heads have an option for BoM.

I've already gotten the UUID's (they were in one of the commits Anchor Linden posted on Bitbucket) and have tested them - an Omega applier will work fine with the new UUID's.

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24 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Lelutka heads have an option for BoM.

those and Exmachina Davide AFAIK might be more I did not really follow who did those early adoptions

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Posted (edited)
On 3/19/2019 at 6:36 AM, Tazzie Tuque said:

I have been anxiously awaiting good news about BOM,  there are so many instances where the old system lalyer (now on appliers for mesh) are needed because in most cases mesh pants do not ever fit under longer mesh tops without poking through  unless the mesh is made for them to work together.  Thus I am stuck with using a mesh top/jacket etc. with applier pants.. and quite honestly, I am reluctant to make any more appliers.. they are so time consuming.. BOM is the answer.  But having said that, yes I do want protection for my textures so having them show up on a hud like that just would not do at all.. :( 

You're not gonna get anymore protection than you already had pre mesh. The original UUID is masked by the baking process, and BoM texture UUIDs are tied to the avatar using them.

On 3/27/2019 at 11:50 AM, Shudo said:

An Illusion of security is about the worst reason on earth for implimenting something.

It's well studied and well documented. This is how it fails:

The Lab impliment your idea to give creators a warm fuzzy feeling.
Creators feel relaxed and make stuff.
The news gets out - as it always does that this is just window dressing.
The creators feel let down and angry, and they blame the lab.

And this is the important part:

They feel more let down finding out it was a sham then if the illusion they were protected was never there.

There is no technical way to stop someone ripping a texture, either from BOM, or from mesh appliers as they stand right now... it's so trivial it's laughable.

Don't give people false hope with illusions of security, you will only hurt their feelings.

There cannot be a "technical way" to stop someone from ripping a texture/mesh/ sound or animation.

The value of your product comes from the support you provide to your customers.

Edited by Kyrah Abattoir
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2 hours ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

There cannot be a "technical way" to stop someone from ripping a texture/mesh/ sound or animation.

The value of your product comes from the support you provide to your customers.

Well I guess all I can say to this is on the first point.. if there is no way, then there is no way.. I will most likely use BOM anyhow.

And on the second point.. I agree, this is absolutely ture.

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On 3/29/2019 at 12:41 AM, Fionalein said:

those and Exmachina Davide AFAIK might be more I did not really follow who did those early adoptions

Thank you for mention us! 😀 And yes we have this option to delivery the update as soon as it is available officially

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Posted (edited)

 

So trying the baked on mesh on the body with skin and clothes on the update to the sl viewer wearing a gown that classic and the skin for classic but was applier for the head. Seems the mesh heads may be the only thing may still in the works with baked on mesh. But loving to be able to wear some old gowns one first two pictures  I have on is low complex really just a skirt the rest is classic on the mesh body.  Well I know other viewers have to wait well I went out with this gown on I was ask to change my dress by the host at ballroom well I showed her a picture but I understand its what she seen the words with baked on the rest of the body so may look silly so hoping the other viewers  gets this baked on mesh soon. I really like the old vintage gowns would like to be able go out not being told gotta change my dress.But love the baked on mesh can find the clothes don't gotta look for appliers for the clothes.  Some clothes you may have to fix  your shape depending on the classic clothes. Mesh body are ready to use its just the head so I only have alpha on with the lelutka head have no alpha on the slink hourglass body only way it would work. I also love you can don't have to buy extra skins for this you can wear with any other body.

 

Only thing is with mesh heads  when the baked on mesh gets fixed for it not sure do we have to wear alpha or have to wear something  special for the head so don't look like a zombie with guts  but willing to learn

 

 

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Snapshot_004.png

feelgood.png

Edited by Vanoralynna

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4 hours ago, Vanoralynna said:

So trying the baked on mesh on the body with skin and clothes on the update to the sl viewer wearing a gown that classic and the skin for classic but was applier for the head. Seems the mesh heads may be the only thing may still in the works with baked on mesh. But loving to be able to wear some old gowns one first two pictures  I have on is low complex really just a skirt the rest is classic on the mesh body.  Well I know other viewers have to wait

If you want to try a head that already has bakes on mesh enabled .. go grab a demo of a Lelutka head. It has Bakes ready to go. You just have to check the feature in the head's HUD and you can use bakes. Once the feature is truly released I'm sure TPV will start coming out with their BoM viewers and then the head and body creators will start releasing their BoM updates. I think it's going to be a slow start though, especially with skinners catching up and releasing system layers. So patience is key in this process. 

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