Fur Textures

[Elora Lunasea]

Hi everyone. Consumer here, not a creator.

I recently purchased a fur textured item which, IMHO, looks nothing like fur. To my eyes,  it looks more like blurry hair bases strung together. FYI, it is prim, not mesh which I'm sure has a lot to do with the problem.

I have other fur items and none look like this.  

It was my first purchase from the creator (who I am not going to name). I though perhaps it was my viewer at first but after logging in with Firestorm and the official one, the texture looked exactly the same.  I also tried using various versions included in the box, for Belleza Freya and Maitraya Lara. No difference. Thought maybe the HUD wasn't working right. Nope that's ok too.

Anyway, she finally got back to me and she (politely) seems to think the texture for fur should look "blurry" since fur is soft.  She linked me to photos she took which of course, look blurry like the item I purchased.  Wrote her back, trying to word things nicely and linked to two photos I took; one of another fur item where the texture is way better rendered and another of her fur item (see below, I'm sure you all can figure out which is which).

Is it just me? Are my expectations too high? I've been in world for over 10 years and I think I have a good sense of a well made item and one that isn't. And while I don't blog, I do frequently take photos of creators items to post to my Flickr which in essence is promoting them.  I really wanted to utilize this fur piece but there's no way I can make it look good.

I'm hoping at minimum she decides to refund me.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

Maybe it would look ok in DOF shots?

[Janet Voxel]

The first one definitely looks like fur. The second one....not so much. I'm really surprised, that creator makes nice clothing.

I guess that's why "Demo, demo, demo!" Is a mantra.

[OptimoMaximo]

If you refer to the second one, it's the same object scaled up and with transparency. If done with mesh, making the extra copies randomly intersect their surfaces in and out of the base opaque textured object can help achieving some "fluffy furriness". As it is, it looks like my new glasses where shattered under a truck... i can't really tell how blurry the texture can actually be inworld though. The first one also  looks blurry in the picture, but i can definitely tell it's a fur piece of clothing

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

If the item you don't like is copy/mod you could experiment with other textures. If it's prim, chances are you could even change repeats on the existing texure too (other params too like glow, transparency). It looks a bit 'full bright' to me. Unless of course it's no mod. No mod is frustrating.

As a creator, I've had to accept that some of the decisions and compromises I make won't be optimal for some of my (potential) customers or people doing the hunt. There's just so much variety with different graphics cards, viewers, settings, windlight and how they all interact, let alone things like taste and how a rezzable object might be used.

The same is true for consumers. The decisions one creator makes won't always work for everyone. But if it's prim and mod, you should be able to change a few of those, perhaps enough to make it work for you.

[Tazzie Tuque]

The second item picture:  it is mesh as there are definitely two layers there, the lower one with the fur texture on it and the layer just above it has the same texture on it but with transparency on to give the effect of fur.  and because of the shape of the item with many rounded surfaces the texture is stretching in places and with the transparency added to the upper layer, yes it definitely looks blurry.  If the item is mod you can perhaps change that transparency layer and decrease the amount of transparency which might help.  If it is not mod then I think I would be note carding the creator pointing out that the effect is not pleasing at all..  However, after having said that...  if there was a demo, and you did not try it first and just went ahead and bought it, then I am afraid you may be stuck with it as it is..  and if you did try a demo,  and the demo was not like this, then I would let the creator know that.  If it is a hunt item, and you did not pay for it, then you really have not lost anything.  And as Bitsy said different graphics card, viewers, settings all affect how any given texture will look and it could be different for different people.

[So Whimsy]

This is really fascinating to me, because the first picture to me looks like incredibly soft fur. My eyes/brain don't comprehend it as blurry at all, just very soft like fur should be and I wish you'd name the creator because I'd really like to go buy it.

 

The second one however is another matter entirely, it looks nothing like fur, I don't even know what it's supposed to be, a tail? it looks like some strange freebie from 2007 just there to cover the naughty bits or something.

[Elora Lunasea]

1 hour ago, Syn Anatine said:

This is really fascinating to me, because the first picture to me looks like incredibly soft fur. My eyes/brain don't comprehend it as blurry at all, just very soft like fur should be and I wish you'd name the creator because I'd really like to go buy it.

 

The second one however is another matter entirely, it looks nothing like fur, I don't even know what it's supposed to be, a tail? it looks like some strange freebie from 2007 just there to cover the naughty bits or something.

The first one is from Pixicat and yes, I think it's well done.

The second, is the one with the problem and for the sake of being nice, I won't mention the creator. I will, however, say I got a less than nice IM back from her. First, saying she was sad I didn't like the item and she was refunding me. Her commentary got progressively more heated and I'm sharing because I actually laughed at it and I hope, responded back appropriately. FYI, I also blocked her right after.

Also, she says I put a photo of her piece out on Flickr for public view, which I did but did NOT mention who made it or the name of the product. All it said was "TEST". Anyone that saw it wouldn't have known why it was up. Everything else was privately said between us inworld.  Sheesh.

Creator: Hi Elora, are you here?
Creator: I am very sad, you do not like my product, so I am refunding you the price you paid. Thank you for telling me.
Creator: Honestly, I do not know what you want me to say. There is a demo, free for everyone, and I do not expect that absolutely everyone has to be happy with every single item I have. Therefore I put a demo with all the textures and all sizes, so that people can try and see if they like it. You don't like it, do not buy it.
 Creator: You say you are a photographer and I am sure that every photo on your flickr has a piece of your soul inside. I spend days on creating my items and trust me, there is a piece of soul in the furry too.
Creator: How would you feel if I made a comparison of your photo to someone elses and put it on flickr for public view?
Elora Lunasea Kips (elora.lunasea): Creator, I don't log on weekdays other than evenings so I didn't see any of your messages until just now. Thank you for the refund. I wasn't expecting you to say anything - I wanted to be sure it wasn't my viewer/laptop. And yes, there is a demo but I was having trouble the past days paying, rezzing and opening objects so I took a chance buying the product, based on the appearance of your other clothing. My apologies if you are offended by my comments. As for my own work, the difference is I do not get paid for my work. And, for that matter, I always welcome constructive criticism on all of my work, most especially my RL photos. I believe we all should strive to do the best possible but not be upset when others have an opinion which will challenge our own idea of what we thought was "good" but has flaws.  Again, thank you for the refund and I'll take down the 2 photos on my Flickr as promised.
Second Life: User not online - message will be stored and delivered later.

Thank you everyone else for the suggestion to try another texture on it. I'm going to see if it's modify. Maybe I will find one that looks better than hers. If not, no big deal since she did at least refund me.  

Edited March 30, 2018 by Elora Lunasea

[Janet Voxel]

Strangely enough, it looks more fur like when the picture is smaller. From my phone it doesn’t look as bad. It’s good that she gave you a refund  though.

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

8 hours ago, Elora Lunasea said:

The first one is from Pixicat and yes, I think it's well done.

The second, is the one with the problem and for the sake of being nice, I won't mention the creator. I will, however, say I got a less than nice IM back from her. First, saying she was sad I didn't like the item and she was refunding me. Her commentary got progressively more heated and I'm sharing because I actually laughed at it and I hope, responded back appropriately. FYI, I also blocked her right after.

To be honest, I don't read her replies that way. Not at all. She refunded you straight away, even thanked you for telling her.

Maybe it's because I've been on the receiving end of a few complaints myself, but I read the rest of her words as expressing the pain which comes with rejection. It can feel like a punch in the gut whether it's justified or not. And naturally the inclination for many people is to talk about it with someone. It helps. You're doing a similar thing in writing about your experience here.

Can you see it that way? She was experiencing negative emotions (her discomfort with the picture being on flickr suggests it might include shame or embarrassment) and she needed to talk about it in order to process it and move on from those emotions. A better course would have been to find someone else to tell, but that's a skill not everyone's learned and it can be very hard when something like shame or embarrassment is involved.

[Lillith Hapmouche]

No matter how you read the response, whether as "heated" or as "rejection" ... somehow, I don't think it can possibly be a healthy attitude in the long run to identify that closely with a virtual good put up for sale in such an intense manner. "A piece of soul" inside ... that's some heavy load to carry. 

On the other hand - there was a demo, it seems. Was it fundamentally different to the purchase copy or why did you, Elora, bother to purchase an item, where the demo even didn't convince you? Especially if it was your first purchase from a new creator?

For "no big deal", there is quite an ongoing effort to fuel attention.

[Elora Lunasea]

39 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

No matter how you read the response, whether as "heated" or as "rejection" ... somehow, I don't think it can possibly be a healthy attitude in the long run to identify that closely with a virtual good put up for sale in such an intense manner. "A piece of soul" inside ... that's some heavy load to carry. 

On the other hand - there was a demo, it seems. Was it fundamentally different to the purchase copy or why did you, Elora, bother to purchase an item, where the demo even didn't convince you? Especially if it was your first purchase from a new creator?

For "no big deal", there is quite an ongoing effort to fuel attention.

As explained in my answer to the Creator - I purchased the item because I wasn't able to purchase the demo. I've been having issues with buying/rezzing/opening boxes.  Based on her past creations (I own a couple already) I made the apparently wrong assumption the item would render properly. I've been inworld for over 10 years, I fully understand how things work. 

So yes, perhaps I should have waited until I was able to get the demo but I liked the item enough and wanted to use it in a photo, which in essence would have been good for the creator as I always tag everything on Flickr so others can find it.  

Bitsy - being on the tail end of complaints of quality is something that goes along nearly any business. Sometimes, a creator can get sloppy with an item trying to push it to market. I can't count how many times very well respected creators will send another version after release because they either are informed there's a problem or find it themselves.  No need to get emo over it.  People make mistakes and quickly admitting to them and rectifying them is a better reflection on their business and character than throwing their feelings against a wall over it. It wasn't like I didn't like the item itself, the quality of the item is what suffered.

As the saying goes "There's no crying in baseball" and, shouldn't be in retail either.  No reflection on self-worth, just on product.

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

19 hours ago, Elora Lunasea said:

No need to get emo over it.  People make mistakes and quickly admitting to them and rectifying them is a better reflection on their business and character than throwing their feelings against a wall over it. It wasn't like I didn't like the item itself, the quality of the item is what suffered.

As the saying goes "There's no crying in baseball" and, shouldn't be in retail either.  No reflection on self-worth, just on product.

Why not just be kind and accept that this is where she is? What do you gain by venting your own emotions with a block and dismissal of hers? Surely there are other ways to finish a conversation, some as simple as not replying. Now you've lost the ability to buy anything from her again, even though you like the majority of her work. That seems like a net loss to me, or was it satisfying to you to block her?

One thing I've learned in life is that we rarely know what else is really going on for another person. If someone is reacting emotionally at a time when you wouldn't, chances are there's more to it than what you're seeing. Can't we give each other that small kindness?

[So Whimsy]

Elora, I think you forget that most merchants in second life are simply hobbyists, most of which don't even have a background in retail. If I venture into a boutique in real life I expect professional service and behaviour, I do however not expect this in Second Life. Most merchants lack the training, most are just winging customer service, most simply aren't made for being a merchant as they can't handle the customer heat but they love creating and playing store and that's okay.

She refunded you and as Bitsy said, that should have been the end of it.

You're acting like she did, just in a different way. She got overly upset about the criticism (which you conveniently left out when you posted that chat log....) and you can't let things go long after a mutual agreement (refund) had been made. Time to move on.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

On 3/30/2018 at 8:24 AM, Elora Lunasea said:

Hi everyone. Consumer here, not a creator.

I recently purchased a fur textured item which, IMHO, looks nothing like fur. To my eyes,  it looks more like blurry hair bases strung together. FYI, it is prim, not mesh which I'm sure has a lot to do with the problem.

I have other fur items and none look like this.  

It was my first purchase from the creator (who I am not going to name). I though perhaps it was my viewer at first but after logging in with Firestorm and the official one, the texture looked exactly the same.  I also tried using various versions included in the box, for Belleza Freya and Maitraya Lara. No difference. Thought maybe the HUD wasn't working right. Nope that's ok too.

Anyway, she finally got back to me and she (politely) seems to think the texture for fur should look "blurry" since fur is soft.  She linked me to photos she took which of course, look blurry like the item I purchased.  Wrote her back, trying to word things nicely and linked to two photos I took; one of another fur item where the texture is way better rendered and another of her fur item (see below, I'm sure you all can figure out which is which).

Is it just me? Are my expectations too high? I've been in world for over 10 years and I think I have a good sense of a well made item and one that isn't. And while I don't blog, I do frequently take photos of creators items to post to my Flickr which in essence is promoting them.  I really wanted to utilize this fur piece but there's no way I can make it look good.

I'm hoping at minimum she decides to refund me.

 

So,
1. you had inworld issues with buying and rezzing things so you didnt get the demo. 
2. You say the product image is blurry as well but still bought it thinking, what, the creator took and posted a blurry mage for final sale?
3. They refunded you and yet you still come here for vindication?!?!?! 
4. If you really think their responses to you are heated... You should deal with some of the serious a$$hat merchants. 
5. You posted these two images on Flickr for everyone to see.. And you say the unnamed creator is getting emo? 

As a merchant myself, i have dealt with the gamut of customers. From box wearers who screamed at me for selling them "a freaking box not a dress" to those who somehow thought a red dress would somehow be blue.. I have remained calm throughout, just like the creator in this case did. You seem to be the one going all emo and needing to vent. Your issue was dealt with to your satisfaction, "Thank you for the refund. I wasn't expecting you to say anything - I wanted to be sure it wasn't my viewer/laptop." And yet you still came here wanting more... Big girl panties, find some and put them on. As you say, ""There's no crying in baseball" and, shouldn't be in retail either." There shouldn't be in SL either, what did that fur cost, two bucks max? Less than a cup of coffee. and here you are, venting like a volcano about to burst. SMH.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Drake1 Nightfire

[Drake1 Nightfire]

On 3/31/2018 at 7:34 AM, Elora Lunasea said:

As explained in my answer to the Creator - I purchased the item because I wasn't able to purchase the demo. I've been having issues with buying/rezzing/opening boxes.  Based on her past creations (I own a couple already) I made the apparently wrong assumption the item would render properly. I've been inworld for over 10 years, I fully understand how things work. 

Hold up.. you said in your opening post... 

On 3/30/2018 at 8:24 AM, Elora Lunasea said:

It was my first purchase from the creator (who I am not going to name).

So, which is the truth? 

On 3/31/2018 at 7:34 AM, Elora Lunasea said:

So yes, perhaps I should have waited until I was able to get the demo but I liked the item enough and wanted to use it in a photo, which in essence would have been good for the creator as I always tag everything on Flickr so others can find it.  

Ya think? What was the rush to get this photo out? You say you do them for yourself, so why not wait a day? 

On 3/31/2018 at 7:34 AM, Elora Lunasea said:

It wasn't like I didn't like the item itself, the quality of the item is what suffered.

That means you didn't like the item.. If i buy a car that has a horrible paint job on it and demand a refund, THEN I DIDN'T LIKE THAT PARTICULAR CAR!! Good grief.. 

[Wulfie Reanimator]

On 3/31/2018 at 1:48 PM, Lillith Hapmouche said:

somehow, I don't think it can possibly be a healthy attitude in the long run to identify that closely with a virtual good put up for sale in such an intense manner. "A piece of soul" inside ... that's some heavy load to carry. 

The creator's native language obviously isn't English, judging by how they worded things in general. I doubt they meant that as literally as you took it. More traditional way to say the same rhing could've been "you put a little bit of yourself into the things you make." Your personality/character, your effort, your pride. A different language/culture could think/say soul or something similar.

It is normal to be attached and a little protective of your work.

That is also where retail and SL differ. Retail is just buying ready products in bulk to sell forward. On SL it's your own handiwork (for the most part).

Edited June 15, 2018 by Wulfie Reanimator