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Hi, I have lots of "lost and found" stuff, half of them "no copy". They just packed and returned to me as bunch of objects inside package. Its normal behaviour. But there is problem to find out in whitch package is needed object. Can I search it without rezzing. It very troublesome to rezz them each by each..............Also, I find out very nice new feature "pathfinder". I dont need anymore HUD for searching objects in land. But the pathfinder is little primitive. It shows only objects count and not summary prims, must manually calculate.  But bigger problem is how to set package name when I take objects with pathfinder? Seems it always set package name as first object in the list.

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Here. A little list of a few things to get you started: HEALTHCARE CAT Scans Light-Emitting Diodes (LEDs) Infrared Ear Thermometers Artificial Limbs Foil blanket

Enough squabbling, kids. If you want to play the age card, I'm 71 and have been writing programs since the mid-1960s.  I would not be so bold as to call myself a professional -- just a physical chemis

Believe it, and move on.  SL's asset server system is not a ZIP archive.

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There is no way to search for an item within a coalesced object without rezzing it somewhere.

I'm not familar with the 'pathfinder' you are talking about, is it a purchased product or a certain viewers feature?

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22 minutes ago, Syn Anatine said:

There is no way to search for an item within a coalesced object without rezzing it somewhere.

I'm not familar with the 'pathfinder' you are talking about, is it a purchased product or a certain viewers feature?

Im using Firestorm. Maybe its only in Firestorm. Its in build menu -> pathfind -> region objects (or something). It shows list of all my owned objects in region and their prims count and distance from my avatar. Also I can teleport to object (this is very good new feature, previously I used additional HUD and scanner drones for this). ..........But this "search objects inside coalesced-packed object" should be good idea for "new features wish-list" or maybe someone already put this idea into wish list.......The more and more I have feeling Linden Lab must allow more information changes between SL server and viewer. I think viewer developing is not restriction, only Linden dont allow access to information...........Also, example there is always problem with selecting objects and moving them together. First to select all objects is problematic. When you select by holding shift and selecting by mouse rectangle, it never selects all objects, always some objects becomes missing. And when you start moving them, it easily broke selection and you again dont find objects. And no-copy objects also you cant put to rezzer (to move them together). 

Edited by Ernesto Perez
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That's not possible. You're asking for something like a tool that would tell you the names of all the links in an linked object.  That, too, is impossible.  The "Pathfinding" feature is a basic function of the Linden Lab viewer and is in all third party viewers. It's fundamentally a tool for analyzing objects to see how they are related to the region's navgrid for pathfinding, but can also be used as a locator tool , as you have discovered.  It's very handy, but will never tell you what's inside a coalesced or a linked object.

1 hour ago, Ernesto Perez said:

First to select all objects is problematic. When you select by holding shift and selecting by mouse rectangle, it never selects all objects, always some objects becomes missing.

That has always been true. When you select objects by surrounding, the selection tool will only select objects that should be within your viewing range.  That means it will not select objects that are too far away or objects that are too small for you to see without getting closer.  I remember trying to move a large building back in 2008. Many small objects were left behind, so I needed to move them later. That behavior has not changed.

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3 hours ago, Ernesto Perez said:

IThe more and more I have feeling Linden Lab must allow more information changes between SL server and viewer. I think viewer developing is not restriction, only Linden dont allow access to information...........

When you get these 'feelings' you should probably take a bit of time to verify them if they're true. In this case they are not.

3rd party viewer developers have all the information they need and especially the firestorm team has in the past, present and will in the future create functions that the official Second Life viewer does not have. However these functions need to be approved by Linden Lab and they have in the past refused many of these very useful functions for whatever reason they deem good enough. Or no reason really, they do not need a reason.

3rd party viewer developers are bound by these refusals, if they go against the decision they will lose the third party viewer support from LL, which is basically a death sentence for that viewer.  So they abide by it. So in summary, it has absolutely nothing at all to do with LL refusing to give out information.

I encourage you to do a bit of research in the future, it's quite interesting what you can unearth!

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Example why Linden restricts access of information inside objects package? Why I must rezz them. I like to without rezzing to find out what objects are in package and why not to rezz them individually, like I can umpack one file from ZIP archive. This is exactly because Linden server dont allow this access for viewers. But no problems, I can wait one more 10y (I dont die soon :) ) and I hope after 10y there is exactly what I want today.

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8 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

I just always use a cube as label for the whole group of items, and I would never think of just returning a group of objects. So I never have your problem.

The problem can easily happen in sandbox. When you build something big, you cant do this in your own land, regardless how big your land is. Because there can appear problem where your old stuff and new stuff confused. For this you need sandbox, where you work only with new stuffs. Example you have old building and want to add some new objects. In sandbox, you rezz old building and then add new objects. When they mix up (this just happens sometimes) and you lost control where are your new objects and where old, then you just derezz old building. In your land you cant always derezz, example when its dancing club and full on people. So, anyway you need sandbox (if you arent millionaire of course and dont own multiple sims just in case for building). But sandbox can return objects to your lost and found in very inappropriate moment.

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I have never used a sandbox or needed to separate old and new pieces, so I have never encountered the problems you have. I just build on my own land and take copies of the build as I make changes. Don’t really understand all  these rezzing restrictions you describe.

Edited by Pamela Galli
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15 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

I have never used a sandbox or needed to separate old and new pieces, so I have never encountered the problems you have. I just build on my own land and take copies of the build as I make changes. Don’t really understand all  these rezzing restrictions you describe.

When you build example some 100x100x100 building, you want to add some new objects inside this building. You start linking objects. But there can be happen when you loose linkset, just focus or something. Then there is problem to find objects. Because everywhere are walls. Then the best choice is derez old building with rezzbox and later rezz again. Second example is when you have some no-copy objects, those cant be put into rezzer. Example you move your building to some other location in the same parcel or at all sell this parcel and buy new one. Now you must transfer those no-copy objects to new land. How you do this? You cant take them one by one, because then their positions from each other lost. You must mark then by edit and take all as one package. Now, when you rezz this package, you must move them to right place. You must again mark them and then move. But while moving, selection can be easily broke and then again, you dont find objects, because everywhere are walls.  

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2 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

 I don’t understand any of your problems or choices. Maybe someone else does and can advise you.

 

It’s all quite mystifying, isn’t it? Rolig seemed to grasp it, up in the thread. I remain hopelessly befuddled.

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2 hours ago, Ernesto Perez said:

Example why Linden restricts access of information inside objects package? Why I must rezz them. I like to without rezzing to find out what objects are in package and why not to rezz them individually, like I can umpack one file from ZIP archive. This is exactly because Linden server dont allow this access for viewers. But no problems, I can wait one more 10y (I dont die soon :) ) and I hope after 10y there is exactly what I want today.

This is not a matter of LL, or the server, restricting anything. The server cannot see what is in your inventory, in a grouped object, so of course you will need to rezz it out. Just as the server cannot see precisely what all you have grabbed together as one group object while it's rezzed out...because you have decided to tell the server to treat those objects as one singular group object This has been the case since day one-and SL is absolutely no exception to this kind of functionality btw. You're asking them to re-write bits of code, just to serve your singular purpose, that really don't have to be re-written-and even if they were, would be much more complicated than you think. I don't think you actually understand what it is you're asking them to do, you're simply seeing it as a problem that you think can, and should, be fixed easily and quickly. 

None of the things you are complaining about are actually problems, IF you, as the person dealing with the objects, are more careful, you won't run into most of them at all. For example, not being able to grab certain items when you want to grab a whole bunch of them, that has nothing at all to do with something not functioning,m but rather your own misunderstanding of how the viewer actually works (in this case, what objects it believes you can see within your view). Grabbing items that are not actually within your view, is going to be impossible, no matter what. That's a basic functionality, and not a bug, or a problem. That is just you not understanding how the viewer sees/renders objects within your view. If the viewer(ANY viewer) does not detect that object-for whatever reason, you're not going to be able to select it. Again, that's not a restriction that LL has put in place to somehow annoy you, that's actually a functionality with rendering that helps reduce the load on systems. There is no point in rendering the data for objects that aren't actually within your current view(this is a GOOD thing, not a bad one).

 

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48 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

the viewer(ANY viewer) does not detect that object-for whatever reason, you're not going to be able to select it.

 

Today its actually possible also when viewer distance is too far. In pathfinder you can still select objects. You must be with your avatar close only to the first object in the list. And then move or take whole bunch of objects. When you are next to object not first in the list and try to edit it, then actually editing XYZ arrows appear still in first object.

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2 hours ago, Ernesto Perez said:

But sandbox can return objects to your lost and found in very inappropriate moment.

Every sandbox posts its auto-return times, usually around the sandbox itself and also in its About Land description, and in some cases you also receive a notecard when you arrive. The auto-return either happens at a specified hour (or hours) of the day, or a certain time after you have rezzed your first items (which tends to be about three hours, from most sandboxes I've visited). Simply take note of which it is, and set an alarm or timer to remind you to label/link/whatever your work - both new and old - and take it into your inventory before the auto-return will happen. Keep it there until either the auto-return time of day has passed, then re-rez it, or simply rez it again and start the auto-return timer all over.

I'm not sure why you want such a complex workaround that would demand a complete rewrite of a great deal of code (if it's even possible at all) when there's such a simple solution as "Find out how long the auto-return is, then set a timer to remind you".

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It dont help me much when there is example 2h. First I dont remember what the time was when I rezz something. When I rezz 10 objects in different time, then I must have 10 different stopwatch. Also work can take longer than expected and I cant just stop. And also land owner can in somtime manually return objects. Or maybe I just forget some objects in sandbox.

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simple way. First type "dd 120" without the quotes to make sure your camera can see everything inside 100 meters

  1. Go to an empty sandbox
  2. go into fly mode and stay flying for all of this
  3. type gth 1000
  4. type rezplat
  5. drag one of the conglomerates onto the platform
  6. Use World>Area Search to look for the item - turn on beacons
  7. Delete the platform but leave the rest rezzed It will be returned in 4 hours
  8. type gth 1200
  9. repeat 4-7
  10. type gth 1400
  11. repeat 4-7
  12. type gth 1600
  13. repeat 4-7

Personally, when un-coalescing I [refer to take everything back and put it back into the correct folders, but you can leave it all there to be auto-returned and re-coalesced.

Edited by Callum Meriman
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35 minutes ago, Ernesto Perez said:

Today its actually possible also when viewer distance is too far. In pathfinder you can still select objects. You must be with your avatar close only to the first object in the list. And then move or take whole bunch of objects. When you are next to object not first in the list and try to edit it, then actually editing XYZ arrows appear still in first object.

You're describing two different instances here in the same thread and treating them as if they are the same thing. That's a huge part of the problem here and why people are failing to understand you. Yes, it is potentially possible to select them all using pathfinder, but what you described, and what I responded to, was about you being unable to select ALL objects *not* using pathfinder. Two totally different scenarios(and also, pathfinder can still fail to grab everything, no system is perfect 100% of the time..but I digress, as discussing that will likely make this even more confusing). I believe there is a huge language barrier here that is causing some issues.  What I can say, is that most of your complaints are a product of your own misunderstanding of how the system(s) work, including how rendering and inventory systems(to put it simply).  They are not a product of LL trying to reduce what you can and cannot do. They are not a product of LL being outdated (though, admittedly, we all know there are components of SL that are sorely outdated, that is neither here, nor there, and has nothing at all to do with this thread). or trying to annoy, or even restrict you in any fashion. You really do not understand how the systems work, and I'm certain it is not your own fault, but it is also not LL's fault that individuals do not understand how the system(s) work.

Your next post is a perfect example of you simply wanting LL to accommodate you, just because you want them to. 

10 minutes ago, Ernesto Perez said:

It dont help me much when there is example 2h. First I dont remember what the time was when I rezz something. When I rezz 10 objects in different time, then I must have 10 different stopwatch. Also work can take longer than expected and I cant just stop. And also land owner can in somtime manually return objects. Or maybe I just forget some objects in sandbox.

This is not a product of LL's doing. The person paying for that particular sandbox that is giving you the opportunity to use THEIR land that THEY PAY for, has the option to not let you use it as long as you wish. Why do you think you should be able to use it for as long as you want? Again, this is a product, a problem, you create for yourself. I use sandboxes all the time. I always have, since I first rezzed in sl. I never have an issue of my stuff getting returned while I am working. Why? Because A-I am grateful for those that create sandboxes for my and others' use, B-I am mindful of my own time management and C-Even if something got returned, it would be my own fault for not following B lol.  You CAN stop, you choose not to. Most of my builds take days, weeks, sometimes months, very few of them only take mere hours. Should I expect that someone should just let me use their land that entire time? No. What I do, is save my work as I go along, especially something involved. I pay attention to the return time on all sandboxes I use and if I get even remotely close, I save my work, pick it up, and put it back out again. Problem solved.  That is entirely on ME as the GUEST of that land to ensure I follow the rules. It's really not this difficult, lol. 

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But I dont understand why not write function-option to show package content and extract objects from it. There is nothing more to do as just programming or reprogramming SL server. Because in future some SL alternative virtual world does this anyway. Just because to show - "but we can do it". But Im sure also Linden Lab in future makes all this stuff and even more. And of course its important what I want - because Im the player. Also you.

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1 hour ago, Callum Meriman said:

Delete the platform but leave the rest rezzed It will be returned in 4 hours

While sandboxes will eventually return your items, IMO it is rude to leave behind stuff on purpose -- totally different if you miss things while cleaning up.

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1 hour ago, Ernesto Perez said:

It dont help me much when there is example 2h. First I dont remember what the time was when I rezz something. When I rezz 10 objects in different time, then I must have 10 different stopwatch. Also work can take longer than expected and I cant just stop. And also land owner can in somtime manually return objects. Or maybe I just forget some objects in sandbox.

Then go buy or rent land large enough to accomodate whatever you are wanting to do.  We all have to live within the constraints of the system.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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1 hour ago, Ernesto Perez said:

But I dont understand why not write function-option to show package content and extract objects from it. There is nothing more to do as just programming or reprogramming SL server. Because in future some SL alternative virtual world does this anyway. Just because to show - "but we can do it". But Im sure also Linden Lab in future makes all this stuff and even more. And of course its important what I want - because Im the player. Also you.

LL is hiring.  I suppose you can get a job there and show them how easy it would be.

https://www.lindenlab.com/careers

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54 minutes ago, Ernesto Perez said:

But I dont understand why not write function-option to show package content and extract objects from it. There is nothing more to do as just programming or reprogramming SL server. Because in future some SL alternative virtual world does this anyway. Just because to show - "but we can do it". But Im sure also Linden Lab in future makes all this stuff and even more. And of course its important what I want - because Im the player. Also you.

First, I want to see you accomplish this, and then come back and tell us precisely how "easy" it was to do. You really do not understand what you're asking the system to do. You're not asking for the server to be able to look into a singular object to tell you its contents. We can already do that, rather simply. You're asking the server to look at multiple objects-specifically ones IN YOUR INVENTORY, to tell you what is in a coalesced object. It's not as simple to program as you might think. Trust me, other alternative virtual worlds aren't "doing this anyway", either now, or in the future. It's simply of absolutely no concern, to anyone, it's just not as important to anyone as you might think it is, lol. 

Yes what we want IS important, but sometimes what we want is not possible, or at least not reasonable, whether that is only temporarily the case, or permanently the case. Sometimes what we think we want, isn't what we actually need.  You do not seem to actually understand how the server works, how assets work, how inventory and the asset server works, etc.. and I think it's causing you a great deal of confusion and frustration.  But those are products of your own creation, you're causing yourself a lot of confusion and frustration..for no real reason. 

Take the time to be cautious when building, and you will find that you have far less issues. Don't try to pick so many things up as a coalesced object unless you know for a fact what it is you're picking up. Sure, it happens now and then that we get one on accident (I've returned my own stuff before, lol, it happens). It cna be a pain in the butt when it does happen, but it doesn't HAVE to happen so frequently that it's a problem.  For the most part, you can avoid these issues you're having real easily by taking the time to be cautious and mindful of what you're doing when you're building or picking objects up. 

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29 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

While sandboxes will eventually return your items, IMO it is rude to leave behind stuff on purpose -- totally different if you miss things while cleaning up.

Me too, but OP seems to like having coalesced items, so instructions are written in a way to let him look into each group, then have it put back as it was.

Personally I find that coalesced objects are too hard to deal with. When I get them I tend to break them up as soon as possible.

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