responsibility as a club owner regarding streams

[dieselaffair]

I have been a host for ages in SL , and I am looking into launching my own club ...one thing that scares me is media rights , licensing etc . I know that DJ's are responsible to play licensed streams and it falls on them to follow LL TOS and what not ...

As a club owner , what do I need to know from the legal side of operating a club and providing a place for Artists , performers , DJ's ?

Are there any licensing issues I need to ensure I do to be legal?

 

Any advice appreciated , this isn't a spontaneous dream here ...but a very long thought out thing that has come to the get my land and do it stage.

 

thanks in advance for your thoughts

[Fionalein]

51 minutes ago, dieselaffair said:

I have been a host for ages in SL , and I am looking into launching my own club ...one thing that scares me is media rights , licensing etc . I know that DJ's are responsible to play licensed streams and it falls on them to follow LL TOS and what not ...

As a club owner , what do I need to know from the legal side of operating a club and providing a place for Artists , performers , DJ's ?

Are there any licensing issues I need to ensure I do to be legal?

that is what kept me from DJing, I know my country's regulations are a pain in the ass on this, and as I would stream from home... yeah you get it, the stream would most likely not be falling under US laws ...

[Callum Meriman]

As long as you are not providing their stream, I am not aware of any club owner requirements outside asking your DJs do keep their logbook and pay their country's licensing bureau(x). My understanding is you can do this at application time. You are not the police, so you don't need to continually enforce it.

Of course, as with anything, ensure that your posters, logos and so forth are also using self-created or CC0 images and fonts. (so many people forget that most free TTF files are not for commercial use)

If you do videos of any events do not use the stream as backing unless you will also track and pay those royalties. Replace the stream with  rights free music, or purchase rights to backing music.

[Alyona Su]

Different countries have different laws.

In the U.S. it's pretty simple: if the DJ is officially part of your club; an "employee" then you, the club owner, are responsible for any and all licensing.

If the DJ is a freelancer and on-hire, then they are a contractor or subcontractor, and therefore they are responsible for all licensing and fees.

Oh, and as for which laws apply? I believe it would be the laws that apply to the DJ typist and where they are located; where are the running their SL Viewer.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Alyona Su

[Ethan Paslong]

3 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

Different countries have different laws.

In the U.S. it's pretty simple: if the DJ is officially part of your club; an "employee" then you, the club owner, are responsible for any and all licensing.

If the DJ is a freelancer and on-hire, then they are a contractor or subcontractor, and therefore they are responsible for all licensing and fees.

Oh, and as for which laws apply? I believe it would be the laws that apply to the DJ typist and where they are located; where are the running their SL Viewer.

this is for RL, a SL DJ doesn't work for clubs. (virtual venues are nothing but pixels)

A second life DJ is a internetbroadcaster and has to apply to those rules. By most governments a internetbroadcaster is seen as radiostation.

[Alyona Su]

2 hours ago, Ethan Paslong said:

By most governments a internetbroadcaster is seen as radiostation.

4

Yes, exactly and my entire comment, in its entirety, still applies and is still accurate. So I'm not sure what your point is? There are still licensing fees that are supposed to be paid, if not "public display" as RL DJs must, then as "rebroadcast" as radio stations and *streaming systems* do.

The *question* that was asked by the OP is *who* is responsible to pay these:

Answer: if your DJ or Streamer (hey, if they don't voice while they DJ they are NOT a DJ, folks) is your employee, officially of your club then the owner of the club is responsible. If the DL freelances and goes to other clubs and venues, then it is a contract for hire and so the DJ is responsible.

/me chuckles.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Alyona Su

[dieselaffair]

Thanks for the comments so far , its going along with what I have found out in world talking to clubs , the DJ is the contractor and responsible for what content he/she plays ... if I play music from a radio station and its illegal I'm not guilty , they go after the person streaming it .

As for the logo comment , thanks for the reminder ...it will be all personally made content .

Thanks all !

[Ethan Paslong]

6 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

/me chuckles.

keep doing that, but does not mean you'r right.

The employer/employee connection in SL is totally irrelevant here, it's virtual.

The DJ is internetradio broadcaster.... that's all there is, all others are only listeners.

[Fionalein]

18 minutes ago, Ethan Paslong said:

The DJ is internetradio broadcaster.... that's all there is, all others are only listeners.

which could be subject to fees again if listening for commercial purposes, media law is Pandora's box =^.^= 

[So Whimsy]

4 hours ago, Ethan Paslong said:

keep doing that, but does not mean you'r right.

The employer/employee connection in SL is totally irrelevant here, it's virtual.

The DJ is internetradio broadcaster.... that's all there is, all others are only listeners.

No it's not.

You are offering a service and you are getting paid an income. This income of virtual currency can be exchanged into real USD and is then subject to tax laws of the country you reside in.

Streaming music to an audience whether it's in a virtual world or in RL is the very same thing, the listeners of the stream are real people, it does not matter in what environment they are, as such the streamer must pay royalities for the content he streams.

No matter which way you look at it, fees must be paid. If you do not do that you can be prosecuted under media law. And tax evasion if you cashed out your Linden to USD without marking that extra income on your tax report.

I'd be very, very careful with putting out the false information you do here, you could land someone in a world of trouble if push comes to shove and the authorities come into play.

[bigmoe Whitfield]

want to broadcast legally and not get pinned.

 

https://live365.com/broadcaster/pricing

I've been licensed years.

[Ethan Paslong]

7 hours ago, Syn Anatine said:

I'd be very, very careful with putting out the false information you do here, you could land someone in a world of trouble if push comes to shove and the authorities come into play.

i don't give false info, the response is to the previous poster.

ONLY the broadcaster is responsible for the fees.

SL doesn't even have DJ's, it are all broadcasters = radiostations = THEY need the license, not the club owners.

perhaps read everything before you accuse for false info.

[Paul Hexem]

 

19 hours ago, Ethan Paslong said:

this is for RL, a SL DJ doesn't work for clubs. (virtual venues are nothing but pixels)

A second life DJ is a internetbroadcaster and has to apply to those rules. By most governments a internetbroadcaster is seen as radiostation.

 

16 hours ago, Ethan Paslong said:

keep doing that, but does not mean you'r right.

The employer/employee connection in SL is totally irrelevant here, it's virtual.

The DJ is internetradio broadcaster.... that's all there is, all others are only listeners.

 

5 hours ago, Ethan Paslong said:

i don't give false info, the response is to the previous poster.

ONLY the broadcaster is responsible for the fees.

SL doesn't even have DJ's, it are all broadcasters = radiostations = THEY need the license, not the club owners.

perhaps read everything before you accuse for false info.

This is incorrect, and the "it's just pixels" attitude will get you in a world of trouble during a DMCA, copyright, or tax breach.

 

12 hours ago, Syn Anatine said:

No it's not.

You are offering a service and you are getting paid an income. This income of virtual currency can be exchanged into real USD and is then subject to tax laws of the country you reside in.

Streaming music to an audience whether it's in a virtual world or in RL is the very same thing, the listeners of the stream are real people, it does not matter in what environment they are, as such the streamer must pay royalities for the content he streams.

No matter which way you look at it, fees must be paid. If you do not do that you can be prosecuted under media law. And tax evasion if you cashed out your Linden to USD without marking that extra income on your tax report.

I'd be very, very careful with putting out the false information you do here, you could land someone in a world of trouble if push comes to shove and the authorities come into play.

This is correct.

As others have said, the venue is responsible for licensing and fees, unless the DJ is a freelancer. This applies to RL and SL.

[Ethan Paslong]

7 minutes ago, Gadget Portal said:

This is incorrect, and the "it's just pixels" attitude will get you in a world of trouble during a DMCA, copyright, or tax breach.

the club will not get in trouble, the stream will be scanned on the internet. And lead to the broadcaster.

You'r all staring blind on the wrong thing.

Taxes have nothing to do with the subject.

[Paul Hexem]

16 minutes ago, Ethan Paslong said:

the club will not get in trouble, the stream will be scanned on the internet. And lead to the broadcaster.

You'r all staring blind on the wrong thing.

Taxes have nothing to do with the subject.

This is why you should never get legal advice on Internet forums.

You absolutely have to file tax paperwork on SL income.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Required_Tax_Documentation_FAQ

Again, RL laws apply to SL.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Gadget Portal said:

This is why you should never get legal advice on Internet forums.

You absolutely have to file tax paperwork on SL income.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Required_Tax_Documentation_FAQ

Again, RL laws apply to SL.

If you never cash out, and spend all your “income” on land or with L$ in-world, is it still considered “income”?

[Tari Landar]

On 3/30/2018 at 6:53 AM, Ethan Paslong said:

the club will not get in trouble, the stream will be scanned on the internet. And lead to the broadcaster.

You'r all staring blind on the wrong thing.

Taxes have nothing to do with the subject.

Actually, it will lead to whomever is paying for the stream (and by trickle down, every user, using said stream to broadcast)....which could be either party (or even neither, in the case of rented, so information would directly link to the host source first and then trickle down).  In any case, it is whoever is paying for said stream, NOT solely whoever is *using said stream, that is responsible for all legalities involved-including financial responsibilities. For example, a club owner has a stream he/she pays for, and someone working at said club uses said stream to broadcast something he/she is not permitted to broadcast, not only is the person that broadcast liable for any legal issues, so is the person PAYING for said stream. This applies to internet radio stations, rl radio stations, broadcasting, etc.. etc.. etc.. That it takes place in a virtual environment,  your nonchalant attitude towards it merely being pixels, as well as your "sl does't have dj's" opinion,  is what is completely irrelevant to the subject at hand, lol. 

Yes, taxes DO have something to do with it, *especially in this case, seeing as most DJs/broadcasters expect some kind of payment-be it in the form of "tipping", or an actual sl income. All sl income is subject to taxes when cashed out, regardless of where you live (unless you live somewhere that never taxes income of any sort...but I don't think there are very many places where such freedom from all taxation exists). 

Edited April 3, 2018 by Tari Landar

[Paul Hexem]

On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 8:49 AM, Love Zhaoying said:

If you never cash out, and spend all your “income” on land or with L$ in-world, is it still considered “income”?

I haven't cashed out more than a few dollars in years, specifically for that reason. I generally put it back in through tips and gifts, or hoard it.

A successful DJ though, they might want to cash out more often. At that point, it's income. LL will even send you a tax form to fill out if you cash out a certain amount, since you get flagged.

[Ethan Paslong]

40 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

Actually,

you make the same mistake as the confused posters above, from my first post on i was only talking about the dj licence, about nothing else.

The broadcaster is solely responsible for his license, the club AT MOST, and most likely the dj itself, for the PUBLIC performance, thats a total different licence.

And taxes were sideway, not talked about by OP at all, thats dragged in by one of the confused people.

[Tari Landar]

8 hours ago, Ethan Paslong said:

you make the same mistake as the confused posters above, from my first post on i was only talking about the dj licence, about nothing else.

The broadcaster is solely responsible for his license, the club AT MOST, and most likely the dj itself, for the PUBLIC performance, thats a total different licence.

And taxes were sideway, not talked about by OP at all, thats dragged in by one of the confused people.

The fact that you don't think they are related, is quite telling. This topic is about all legalities regarding all licensing, not simply the ones *you* want to discuss. Taxes were not dragged in by someone confused, and they are, very much, a related topic. IN fact, they're a topic that most people won't even think about, so it's WISE to bring them up. 

[Callum Meriman]

Taxes are a fair point. As a club in SL will likely never make a profit, taxes are really just going to be the paperwork to keep the authorities happy. You should certainly look at the laws related to that. In my country this is seen as a hobby and there is no need to declare it. That changes if you take money into your paypal, but I can't see this happening in a club. Always check what your countries tax laws say.

On the licensing, and as I did this for a living for many years, I will repeat: The stream is the venue, not the pixels people stand in as they listen to the stream. If the DJ pays for his stream, he pays the licensing (and we are talking a sum the amount of pennies btw). That's why I specifically said "As long as the club is not providing the stream"

Edited April 4, 2018 by Callum Meriman