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Bree Giffen

Will the Sesta/Fosta affect SL?

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I've been reading in the news about the passing of a US bill called fosta/sesta which is aimed at sex trafficking by making websites liable for the actions of their users. This has caused Craigslist to close their online personals. Apparently other large forums including Reddit have closed their personals sections as well. Google has also begun removing google drive content that may make them liable.

Will LL follow this trend by stopping all virtual sex work? Or can they bypass any liability by saying any paid sex in SL is virtual and could never support sex traffickers? Considering SL runs on Amazon's cloud service AWS, could Amazon try to mitigate any liability by forcing SL to censor itself?

What do you think about this? No more sugar daddies?

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In reading the text of the bill, it is hard to say how LL will react, especially given how other online sites have already reacted.  While many have predicted the doom of SL over the years, I think if all virtual sex was eliminated and banned here, SL would truly be on death's door.  The amount of adult activity in SL is staggering compared to non adult activity. 

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Well there is a difference between "I want sex" ads that have real life hookups and virtual sex where no one actually touches and frequently never even knows who they are "really" having sex with. So for me, there isn't an actual correlation between Craig's list and SL sex clubs - LOL.  Honestly, it seems very hard to prove any sex trafficing going on when there are SO MANY FOLKS that come to SL for free sex :D. 

I haven't ever ventured over to adultland in that sexual sense, but since most of the RL folks that I run into cannot understand that we make "'real money" via SL, I am having a difficult time seeing how they would equate pixelated activities with REAL sex. How folks in SL look at it? That's likely a different story. Will be interesting to see how it all turns out. 

There was a law passed decades ago in my state (and likely others) that bars and even people hosting personal parties were liable for the actions of anyone drinking in their establishments or homes. That hasn't even slowed down the drinking (well maybe the first year some).  Interesting what we remember LOL.

 

 

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IANAL and I am certainly not American. In the end LL Legal will decide, (and with the usual transparency not tell us).

As I read it the changes to safe harbor were to remove "federal or state sex trafficking laws from its immunity. "

First it's important to realise that avatars are NOT human*. Therefore sex/human trafficing laws can't apply to those pixels - be they pixel escorts or pixel slaves.

However, what is not ok is organising real human trafficing in SL, and I imagine this would fall into the changes. No arranging a deal with the Russian Mafia to buy real human slaves/escorts from Columbia or other such places.

 

* Although people time and time again seem to fail to grasp this important point.

 

Edit: I note that Backpage and Craigslist have not been censored in Australia, so in a worst case I think this could be like gambling, only the people inside Trump's wall will need to be Perma-G rated. Everyone else in the world is exempted.

Edited by Callum Meriman
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8 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Sounds like a good rumor, to eventually be debunked! I mean that in the best way.

Sex in bunks is much overrated anyway.

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8 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

 worst case I think this could be like gambling, only the people inside Trump's wall will need to be Perma-G rated. Everyone else in the world is exempted.

*gasp*

Not that I actually participate in any adult activities these days anyway.

 

8 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

First it's important to realise that avatars are NOT human*. Therefore sex/human trafficing laws can't apply to those pixels - be they pixel escorts or pixel slaves.

You have to remember that the US can sometimes get wonky in how they interpret stuff.  If some trafficker is forcing girls to do online sex and part of that online sex is in SL (yeah, not very likely, but....), then who knows how the interpretations of the law could play out.  

 

Basically, I never trust lawyers.  They will always find a way to screw over the common person.   And our Congress is mostly just a bunch of lawyers that wanted more power.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell

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At least you got political staff with a juridical education instead of an average of failed teachers and drop-outs. But well...

One aspect would be too funny if that stuff somehow applied to virtual beings: instant ban for those "I'm selling my RL nude pics for 50L!!! IM Meee!" spam bots. B|

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Let the word go out!  The ground-shake of this new law is huge.  It's language is so broad it should pretty clearly be seen to encompass certain SL roleplays as criminal activity,  because it "promotes trafficking in sex" if it can be linked to “prostitution.” 

I'll demonstrate to you how:

According to cyber.laws.com,  recent legislation has spawned from online bullying, stalking, fraud, theft, and underage sex.  But TODAY,  we must realize that there are very key new developments to know.

1. "Cyber-sex" is defined as "the act of role-playing sexual acts or exchanging explicit sexual messages with people in chat rooms...."  Well, now the language broadens to include all online platforms,  including SL, online gaming, anything.

2. "Cybersex is intended to be undertaken for sexual stimulation and arousal, regardless of whether or not real life masturbation is taking place. Therefore, many jurisdictions will treat cybersex as engaging in sexual practices. This will in turn give rise to the situation where cybersex can be illegal." 

This is clearly what we’re seeing in the new SEST-FOSTA legislation.

3. The 2014 language of legislation (and now continuing with these new iterations)  has been to target online sties in order to stop the advertising of sexual activities that promotes sexual trafficking, and as such would in turn make it a federal felony to post prostitution ads online.  

This all suggests to me that Second Life clubs promoting “escorting” activities will meet the definitions of illegality.  This why we now see online sites like Craigslist and Reddit and others closing their “personal” sections.

So, here is the bottom line, as I see it.  It suggests to me that SL roleplay of escorting for “paid” sex services using linden dollars or any other type of in-game created currencies anywhere, will constitute a criminal violation of law.  

Time to put away the g-strings girls, and watch VERY CAREFULLY what you say in chat and IMs in Second Life.

 

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I wonder how that affects virtual trafficking, like Gorean roleplay. Guess we have to wait for some judges to sort that out =^.^= *readies popcorn*

Edited by Fionalein
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I predict a possible ToS change in response to this, but if that happens I would like to see an official response from LL with their views on what the adult industry needs to do to abide by any changes LL makes. Currently there is no mention of "prositution" in the entirety of the Terms and Coniditions.

Worst case scenario, the escort and AFK places could go bye bye and along with it, a significant chunk of revenue.

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I wonder if it would be feaseable for LL to outsource it's roots to another country so they would not be affected by this.

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You'll be charged by the jurisdiction in which the crime occurred.  If you are in such a jurisdiction, you would be at risk of being charged for breaking a law.

Edited by Lancewae Barrowstone

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Wait*....no more craigslist casual encounters? Nooooooo....these are our freedoms being taken away here people. We must rise up and fight for our right to party! Any ideas?

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I would have to say that LL has a good reason to not make any changes to the TOS or shut down any part of SL. Websites are only closing specific places where solicitations for real life prostitution are occurring. In SL, there is no actual place where this happens. Although any one in SL could proposition another for real life services, this could happen virtually anywhere in-world. Even in places like Zindra,, Gorean sims, or Hard Alley these are set up for virtual acts and do not specifically encourage real life interaction.

Who knows if SL users are offering real life things in profiles or in voice chat but SL is not encouraging or enabling it in any way. 

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Who knows if SL users are offering real life things in profiles or in voice chat but SL is not encouraging or enabling it in any way. 

That is irrelevant.  LL are liable for any prohibited action by any of it's user base. Ignorance of these actions is not a defence for LL.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Dura Juran said:

That is irrelevant.  LL are liable for any prohibited action by any of it's user base. Ignorance of these actions is not a defence for LL.

Does that also mean the phone companies will be liable for any illegal action arranged on a phone? Because that will be a hillarious trump in the hands of lawyers (pun intended)

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Although the net is riding on phone company infrastructure, it appears to be aimed at the big interweb bogeymonster. 

If You host sites or servers that allow third parties to connect and interact, then they want You to be responsible for anything those third parties do there.

Since SL is not actually a game server, it is very likely it falls into the category of being held to account for user activity.

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The law was passed to stop sites like Backpage.com that hid behind the first amendment to profit from the sex traffickers using their service. Censorship sucks, but too many children were being hurt- something had to give.

SL isn't the same as Backpage or Craigslist- you're not advertising for IRL sex. I can't imagine pixel prostitutes will be affected.

I wouldn't be surprised if Craigslist's personals came back after the initial legal kerfluffle dies down. Backpage was the biggest target, here.

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Nobody is gonna get into trouble for doing the hanky panky on chat in sl..

You can bet if there is anything to be worried about,We'll hear about it from Linden Lab in more than enough time..

In reality if it was anything for them to worry about,they would have already been on top of it ahead of time like they have been in the past, prepping the grid.

 

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Nobody is gonna get into trouble for doing the hanky panky on chat in sl..

Is the Hokey Pokey still ok too? Because that’s what it’s all about.

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1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Is the Hokey Pokey still ok too? Because that’s what it’s all about.

As long as  people do it all legal like,leading with their left foot an all..

Should be fine..;)

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1 minute ago, Ceka Cianci said:

As long as  people do it all legal like,leading with their left foot an all..

Should be fine..;)

I suspect that the Time Warp will not be ok.

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Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

I suspect that the Time Warp will not be ok.

I only took two years..

You'd have to ask someone with their masters..That's out of my league..

:D

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