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Charlotte Bartlett

The new Marketplace Features coming - Merchant Survey Requirement

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26 minutes ago, Blueberryxx said:

I feel that the fee we are paying is definitely way lower than the industry standard. Including the most close competitors of SL. I don't believe Linden Lab are trying to be malicious they are trying to find a new balance without lowering the company's value, which would be awful for everyone doing business in SL. At the end of the day if someone is cashing out 10,000 and feels 250 usd is too much of a fee to pay to the platform is going to face a very harsh reality stepping outside of SL. 

Think about it this way, we don't have an office overhead most of the time unless you are a professional team with multiple employees, we hardly have any marketing budget bloggers advertise for free. What is left from essential overheads? 5% marketplace fee, 2.5% cash out fee, the land you are on. Sounds more than reasonable to me. I don't see the greed. 

If Linden Lab came about and said ok guys we are going to do 25% then yes, that's awful as people have bills they have budgeted their life according to their monthly income. That would be cruel. But again from just looking at the history you can see that, that is not the way Linden Lab operates. At all. I understand we all have to be realistic and can not be all hopes of dreams, but we can not also be cynical and project that onto our views and call it just being real. 

I understand your point of view, you are probably  the msot successfull store in SL nowadays, and well, congrats.....

As you can see, some people dont want to talk publicly and rather send suggestions in private. Iam just trying to excplain their feeling because iam mostly retired now.

As you can see, most of the creators here have their buisness related to mesh/animation/etc..

I have nothing much to earn or lose anymore since LL ruined already my main SL activity with their TOS change years ago, and finished to stab us in the back coders/scripters by stopping the development of the LSL in 2013. From their words the LSL is dead. Then people are complaigning actually that there is nothing to do anymore in SL except "shopping". Figures it. Here again another SL B and no script/coding improvement.

Tho, i want to defend the creators around, as previously said some people invest unlimited hours, and most of the time it doesnt pay very well.

 

 

If the marketplace fees are low, this was for a simple reason: the FEATURED option was a good income

Now, do some maths, you guys go on the Marketplace, you go sort by "featured" you got the amount of FEATURED, (each worth around 3000L$/month) then you calculate LL incomes coming from the FEATURED.

Clearly it is a really good income. If LL adds a fee less creators will pay the FEATURED, to compensate, in the end this wont change anything!!!!!!!

 

The industry standards? I can talk about industry standard and fees. It wouldnt help SL and LL reputation. Ofc if iam pushed on this path ill explain everything in details. But wise men say once: "you got what you paid for", if we paid low fees and mp for so long, it was proportional to the quality of SL.

Now if you want to adapt all the Sl economy to the industry standard, this will be difficult because we will then rent full sims for 20$ ;)

 

 

 

 

Edited by Majestic Kohime
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8 minutes ago, Blueberryxx said:

What I don't like is acting like it is the end of the world that they did raise the fees to 2.5% to cash out.

First they came for our 2.5%, and we did nothing...

Then they came for..........

lolol

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Just now, Luna Bliss said:

First they came for our 2.5%, and we did nothing...

Then they came for..........

lolol

stop this lolllllll I am dead xDxDxD

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10 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:
25 minutes ago, Blueberryxx said:

At the end of the day if someone is cashing out 10,000 and feels 250 usd is too much of a fee to pay to the platform is going to face a very harsh reality stepping outside of SL. 

 I also pay 5% of marketplace sales, 4% to sell lindens, and tier on four regions. I have no plans of stepping outside second life. 

I mention again, I am not a 3-D model seller, I am a merchant in Second Life providing abundant customer support, most of which is not for my products but for free basic lessons in how second life works.

Edited 3 minutes ago by Pamela Galli

Pamela, you greedy capitalist pig!!!!!!!  ;0

Have you heard merchants called that? I have...

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3 minutes ago, Majestic Kohime said:

I understand your point of view, you are probably  the msot successfull store in SL nowadays, and well, congrats.....

As you can see, some people dont want to talk publicly and rather send suggestions in private. Iam just trying to excplain their feeling because iam mostly retired now.

As you can see, most of the creators here have their buisness related to mesh/animation/etc..

I have nothing much to earn or lose anymore since LL ruined already my main SL activity with their TOS change years ago, and finished to stab us in the back coders/scripters by stopping the development of the LSL in 2013. From their words the LSL is dead. Then people are complaigning actually that there is nothing to do anymore in SL except "shopping". Figures it. Here again another SL B and no script/coding improvement.

Tho, i want to defend the creators around, as previously said some people invest unlimited hours, and most of the time it doesnt pay very well.

 

 

If the marketplace fees are low, this was for a simple reason: the FEATURED option was a good income

Now, do some maths, you guys go on the Marketplace, you go sort by "featured" you got the amount of FEATURED, (each worth around 3000L$/month) then you calculate LL incomes coming from the FEATURED.

Clearly it is a really good income. If LL adds a fee less creators will pay the FEATURED, to compensate, in the end this wont change anything!!!!!!!

 

The industry standards? I can talk about industry standard and fees. It wouldnt help SL and LL reputation. Ofc if iam pushed on this path ill explain everything in details. But wise men say once: "you got what you paid for", if we paid low fees and mp for so long, it was proportional to the quality of SL.

Now if you want to adapt all the Sl economy to the industry standard, this will be difficult because we will and full sims for 20$ ;)

 

 

 

 

Oh, I have literally no objections that MP needs massive, massive improvements and that SL needs a way to bring in new life and that's LL's responsibility. For sure. No arguments there at all. I had no idea about what happened to scripters thank you for the insight.

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1 hour ago, Arwen Serpente said:

I don't, however, want to live through another migration to a new system (and certainly don't want to do it manually) given the very

Indeed!

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6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

This is a great thread! Second Life is the best game ever!

This is the saddest thread ever.

As FatherTheo said earlier, they are going to the absolute worst segment of SL to try and increase revenue -- the creators.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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That survey is a good idea indeed.

Lots of good things I read on that thread. My 3 tops would be :

- The ability to check a bunch of files and change in bulk either the price, inworld location, category, or permissions

- A new area where to write our Terms of Use, an area that would remain so we don't need to rewrite (or copy/paste) them. An area in addition to the "Extended description one"

- (Dreaming mode) A reinforced team that would check the ripped items and ban the IP adresses that insist.

Thanks for reading :)

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1 minute ago, Pierre Ceriano said:

- (Dreaming mode) A reinforced team that would check the ripped items and ban the IP adresses that insist.

YES!

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41 minutes ago, Blueberryxx said:

I feel that the fee we are paying is definitely way lower than the industry standard. Including the most close competitors of SL.

Think about it this way, we don't have an office overhead most of the time unless you are a professional team with multiple employees, we hardly have any marketing budget bloggers advertise for free. What is left from essential overheads? 5% marketplace fee, 2.5% cash out fee, the land you are on. Sounds more than reasonable to me. I don't see the greed. 

 

I don't think it works to compare SL to other venues, nor does it work to compare SL to RL. All variables need to be fairly equal for these kinds of comparisons to be used in the formulation of accurate decisions.

I know it's tempting to make such comparisons if your income in SL is high, or higher, than a typical RL one....but the comparisons don't hold because of so many differences. And also because they only hold true for the very very few who earn a RL income here.

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1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

I don't think it works to compare SL to other venues, nor does it work to compare SL to RL. All variables need to be fairly equal for these kinds of comparisons to be used in the formulation of accurate decisions.

I know it's tempting to make such comparisons if your income in SL is high, or higher, than a typical RL one....but the comparisons don't hold because of so many differences. And also because they only hold true for the very very few who earn a RL income here.

It is fair when the other platform is a direct competitor of SL think other 3D chat platforms where people sell their creations, the answer is right there.

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1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I kept explaining in another thread that this is “possible” but failed to convince genius.

That's right Love, you are a programmer so you would know.

I've always thought it was more possible (to remedy the MP thief problem) but never said due to my script/programming-challenged nature.

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2 minutes ago, Blueberryxx said:
4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I don't think it works to compare SL to other venues, nor does it work to compare SL to RL. All variables need to be fairly equal for these kinds of comparisons to be used in the formulation of accurate decisions.

I know it's tempting to make such comparisons if your income in SL is high, or higher, than a typical RL one....but the comparisons don't hold because of so many differences. And also because they only hold true for the very very few who earn a RL income here.

It is fair when the other platform is a direct competitor of SL think other 3D chat platforms where people sell their creations, the answer is right there.

Well I'd say it's more fair than some other comparisons.

But...SL still has unique features compared to, say, Kitely. I believe it's much more expensive to live here in SL, for one.

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:
5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I kept explaining in another thread that this is “possible” but failed to convince genius.

That's right Love, you are a programmer so you would know.

I've always thought it was more possible (to remedy the MP thief problem) but never said due to my script/programming-challenged nature.

So why do you think they don't remedy it? I mean sure it's easy to see the benefit for LL, but it's a logical error to assume a possible motivation equals the true reason.

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4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

That's right Love, you are a programmer so you would know.

I've always thought it was more possible (to remedy the MP thief problem) but never said due to my script/programming-challenged nature.

The problem is deeper. This is not linked to coding.

Helped to fill a DMCA to help someone from another platform protecting his creation that was stolen and sold in SL.

The DMCA worked very well.

LL did their job: they removed 4-5 products from the thief marketplace, and removed them inworld, according to the DMCA, it took 7 days between dmca and the removing: very quick.

The real problem here is that after having removed the DMCA'ed content, they didnt ban the thief from the MP, they didnt even clean the rest of the MP which is full stolen content (but from other copyright owners)...

This is a lack of will, not a lack of marketplace coding.

Someone that get tons of dmcas in the face shouldnt be allowed to continue to sell on MP especially while the rest of their MP is blatant aswell.

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Maybe they can't modify the MP easily to remove the thieves because they use a template for the MP that is impossible to mod...

Ok, I agree with Charlotte, we need a new MP ;0

 

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1 minute ago, Majestic Kohime said:

The problem is deeper. This is not linked to coding.

Helped to fill a DMCA to help someone from another platform protecting his creation that was stolen and sold in SL.

The DMCA worked very well.

LL did their job: they removed 4-5 products from the thief marketplace, and removed them inworld, according to the DMCA, it took 7 days between dmca and the removing: very quick.

The real problem here is that after having removed the DMCA'ed content, they didnt ban the thief from the MP, they didnt even clean the rest of the MP which is full stolen content (but from other copyright owners)...

This is a lack of will, not a lack of marketplace coding.

Someone that get tons of dmcas in the face shouldnt be allowed to continue to sell on MP especially while the rest of their MP is blatant aswell.

!!

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5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

So why do you think they don't remedy it? I mean sure it's easy to see the benefit for LL, but it's a logical error to assume a possible motivation equals the true reason.

I would guess, that the minute they start policing and enforcing, then they (LL) are open to liability for stuff they missed and wrong decisions.

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16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I've always thought it was more possible (to remedy the MP thief problem)

The idea might be internationaly leveled by creating a kind of universal UUID. If one create a virtual asset and market it on a library such as Turbosquid, it would be attached to a unique everywhere usable UUID. If some want to download it to SL, the UUID would be analyzed and see if in the line of code there is the authorization to do so.

Edited by Pierre Ceriano
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Maybe....us high-earners, mesh police peeps, and all.....want SL to be much more professional for us creators than it can be, or should be.

But for now I want to blame LL and go work on a pretty waterfall...........@#$%^

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45 minutes ago, Pierre Ceriano said:

The idea might be internationaly leveled by creating a kind of universal UUID. If one create a virtual asset and market it on a library such as Turbosquid, it would be attached to a uniqe everuwhere usable UUID. If some want to download it to SL, the UUID would be anayzed and see if in the line of code there is the authorization to do so.

There are many services existing to protect copyrighted content, DMCas, and so on. This is very complex depending on countries, etc..; some protection services cost  and some reports are buttpain if you fill the abuse  manually.

While most of other competitors platforms have 0 tolerance with stolen content, (thiefs are burnt alive by all the community and banned for life) here, in second life it is  more complex.

We see a  result, regarding the fact that our DMCAS are applied and products are removed. The legit part is done.

But in the end LL hardly ban multi DMCA'ed people (the example i took happened last year, another friend did same, and similar result)

Also Unless the content is reported by copyright owner legally it is very hardly removed. This explain aswell the amount of duped gatchas and so on..

I think that lack of will to ban this is due to the fact that SL is big and complex, tho people that receive multidmca shouldnt be allowed to sell anymore, especially while the rest of their Mp is blatant.

 

Here again LL isnt the only company is this case, for example STEAM allowed a LOT of *****ty games to be published and they realize just this year that most of those little games are full of *****, freebie assets used without permissions, stolen music content, etc..

Only a 0 tolerance against DMCaed people can fix this, this is just a company decision, a will.

Of course LL will lose "sellers" that have bene thiefs , but in the end SL will get a better reputation.

NB: i think that SANSAR and HIGH FIDELITY got better watching on content actually tho, even if i didnt check for long time those two metas

Edited by Majestic Kohime
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1 hour ago, Blueberryxx said:

It is fair when the other platform is a direct competitor of SL think other 3D chat platforms where people sell their creations, the answer is right there.

no it's not. Even not looking outside of SL at all, just within SL's own environment, - if LL kept steadily increasing MP commissions with 1% each year starting many years ago, we'd just call it inflation and nobody would say a word of complaint. When they increase commissions from 5% to 30% (or even 25%) overnight, you should expect major shock waves. What happens when RL economy inflation is 30%, is that considered healthy?

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