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Charlotte Bartlett

The new Marketplace Features coming - Merchant Survey Requirement

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2 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

My main point was for those that seem to be missing it, it that almost everything said here is SPECULATION. People have pitchforks in had when nothing concrete has been decided. 

It ALSO said in the blog post that they plan to LOWER LAND COSTS AGAIN --- no one seems to be pointing at that.  

So I am going back to the work of creating since you guys obviously want to do what you do best :D.

Enjoy the worry and the complaining. I plan to enjoy doing something more positive. 

 

Anyone remember the gigantic  marketplace fee discussion/brawl long years ago? Remember the outcome?

Edited by Pamela Galli
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5 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Pitchforks..good?

They are better than fists but have been proven sadly inadequate for angry mobs of untrained people pitched up against trained soldiers armed with guns. They do have a secondary use as farm implementations though.

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7 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

My main point was for those that seem to be missing it, it that almost everything said here is SPECULATION. People have pitchforks in had when nothing concrete has been decided. 

It ALSO said in the blog post that they plan to LOWER LAND COSTS AGAIN --- no one seems to be pointing at that.  

So I am going back to the work of creating since you guys obviously want to do what you do best :D.

Enjoy the worry and the complaining. I plan to enjoy doing something more positive. 

 

Our speculation is better than yours because it has much more ground and facts from the past to support it, while yours is based on nothing but your personal good faith in LL.

We will see soon enough which frog will laugh the last.

I will gladly eat my hat if the commissions fee raise is 2.5%. Hell, i might even get a bottle of champagne to celebrate that we got off so lightly this time! But if it is indeed 25% however, remind me to rub it in your faces.

 

PS. I was already wondering when you were going to inform us all (as you usually do) that the Wise one has left the building...

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As some may know, I gave up my rl job because I was fortunate enough to have an SL income I could live on - a small income but enough for my needs.  However, the constant fee increases is making it too unreliable. So I went back my boring job that I don't like, but it pays $65/hour, and every year I get a small pay increase. I compared it to SL where I love the work, which pays me on average around $8/hour. I did the sensible thing and asked for my rl job back. No more stress about how much less I'm going to have to survive on. It was a nice dream, living on my SL income. It just means that now I spend a lot less time creating, and so that's one less person putting in almost all their time and effort for a small income. This is the danger , there may be many more like me, who just stop feeling that it's worth it.

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3 hours ago, Rya Nitely said:

As some may know, I gave up my rl job because I was fortunate enough to have an SL income I could live on - a small income but enough for my needs.  However, the constant fee increases is making it too unreliable. So I went back my boring job that I don't like, but it pays $65/hour, and every year I get a small pay increase. I compared it to SL where I love the work, which pays me on average around $8/hour. I did the sensible thing and asked for my rl job back. No more stress about how much less I'm going to have to survive on. It was a nice dream, living on my SL income. It just means that now I spend a lot less time creating, and so that's one less person putting in almost all their time and effort for a small income. This is the danger , there may be many more like me, who just stop feeling that it's worth it.

Oh no Rya, this makes me very sad. I did think of you when some alarmed creators contacted me who were also trying to make a RL income here, in the 1,000 usd or so a month category, and who will need to leave SL and find a RL job if the income cuts are too great as they are right on the edge as it is.
I watched you from the beginning bloom into an artist, get better and better at your craft, and I have used the flowers from your other avatar more and more in my custom jobs. Often I log in with my customers avatar to purchase, and in fact will be getting some more very soon!

I've always loved to see people bloom into artists here, as well as how people grow and change in all areas of life, and that's probably why I majored in Psychology. Often one can see when a creator has that spark in the very beginning and could likely become a competent artist, but sometimes it manifests later. I value art because an artist sees the beauty in life and is able to show the beauty to others. What a struggle to see the beauty, and then more struggle to express it adequately! If I'm lucky I get to dance in the beauty from time to time. One of my biggest fears is that I will feel so ill that I don't have the energy to know the joy of creativity anymore.

So I have a lot of empathy for this loss you're describing, and it saddens me to see yet another artist have to go back to rote work and not be able to utilize their talents here, or not much as you say because we only have so much energy in a day and RL work can zap most of it.

It's a strange and confusing dynamic going on for me with these changes, an appreciation for the opportunity SL has given me, juxtaposed with the anger over those in power attempting to manipulate others with market-speak. These supposed improvements, our birthday 'gift' in sickening market-speak, yes a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down, but is there really even any sugar here...even for the non-creators?

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16 hours ago, ChinRey said:

That is a very good and rather complex question. Linden Lab will of course say they are doing what they can and they probably believe it even though it's obviously not true. I could go on with a long rant about it but I think the short answer is that they never saw it as a big problem and certainly not as their problem. So they do what the law requires them to do, nothing more and nothing less.

It's realistic in the sense that it's certainly doable. And the more I think of it, the more I feel that if LL wants to justify a higher fee, that's the improvement that should be right at the very top of the list.

In their eyes stolen items are apparently just as good as the items we create, yet they laud all this creativity here, even using this 'praise of creativity' as a marketing tool to lure in new residents, pretending to care about something noble in society, positioning themselves as doing something good as a company.
Allowing stolen content shows they don't really care where their money comes from, and they are supporting thieves, not creativity. It's another slap in the face to us, and shows they don't really care about creators.

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7 hours ago, Elvina Ewing said:

Our speculation is better than yours because it has much more ground and facts from the past to support it, while yours is based on nothing but your personal good faith in LL.

Haha, I appreciate your bluntness and willingness to look reality in the face -- I feel it is best, as you said to Chic above, to base reality on what has actually happened in the past rather than falling to the illusion of blind faith.
It saddens me how so many people, when faced with the powers that be, allow themselves to be duped. I can't blame them really -- it's hard to be creative and exist in love when the owners of the world you create in are being so manipulative.

It's marketing 101 - the procedure that occurs when a business wants more from their customer. They pretend to give something to their customer as a cover-up for actually taking more from them. Sometimes the business actually does give a little, but the business usually gives something that doesn't cut into their bottom line too much, or in some cases actually benefits the business even more. The customer is fooled and thinks they're getting a good deal.

I have to wonder, Charlotte, Blueberry et al. -- are you able to see this? Or do you see it and think you have no power to change it (and so don't agree that one of the survey points should be a negotiation on the amount of our pay cut)?
Do you just not freaking care about all the others on the line losing the loss of a dream as an artist, or losing their quarter or eighth of a sim land they need for a store, because after all you're earning 4,000,5000, or 6,000 usd monthly and with 25% less of that you'll survive just fine?
Originally, Charlotte, you seemed to think you could make up for the pay cuts through some kind of marketplace magic -- does maintaining this belief bring you some kind of comfort in the face of what's going down? I agree with the assessment of many others, and I just can't see how most affordable (for them) MP improvements will cause our MP sales to increase.

I just can't participate in this survey. For me it's like agreeing to being manipulated and accepting the few bones they are (or might be) throwing our way while they take far, far more from the creators here.
Is 'something' better than 'nothing'?  Sometimes, it's just not.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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4 hours ago, Rya Nitely said:

As some may know, I gave up my rl job because I was fortunate enough to have an SL income I could live on - a small income but enough for my needs.  However, the constant fee increases is making it too unreliable. So I went back my boring job that I don't like, but it pays $65/hour, and every year I get a small pay increase. I compared it to SL where I love the work, which pays me on average around $8/hour. I did the sensible thing and asked for my rl job back. No more stress about how much less I'm going to have to survive on. It was a nice dream, living on my SL income. It just means that now I spend a lot less time creating, and so that's one less person putting in almost all their time and effort for a small income. This is the danger , there may be many more like me, who just stop feeling that it's worth it.

Yeha we all adapted our Rl depending to our SL incomes/plans and then sometimes things turned just wrong.

Ill add even more painfull story, back in the past successful scripters were earning MORE in SL/per hour than a RL job, this happened for example to me for a few products;

Then the new TOS of 2014 (see my first post for exaplanations) resulted in the blocking of most of the scripters products (since alot of products in SL had money options into them, even some car Race sims..etc, you cannot imagine how many);

then, the announce by LL (not sure isf this was official, but the facts are there, in 2018), they justified the stop of the LSL development by telling us that the LL devs were transfered to SANSAR.

So we did wait. And nothing happened. Notice that many, like me had big hopes concerning the pathfinding when it came out, i invested a lot of time in tests but LL never fixed it. Where is the pathfinding in LL nowadays? Mostly in the blocked options of the lands xD

SL12,13,14,15B still no improvment of the LSL. The script langage of SL is definitivly dead, and 95% of the high skilled coders are outside. LL not only lost highly skilled creators, but they also lost a lot of OPEn source helpers. Notice that those open source people ARENT in the next open source metaverse project: HIGH FIDELITY (by philip linden) which is also failing.. .

So, yeah, the LL devs spent the past 4 years makign SANSAR , some of them are also involved in Blocksworld, but here in SL we got 5 full years without any real update of the script langage of SL.

 

Some of the coders from SL tried to reconvert tehmselves  to UNITY or UNREAL ENGINE, trying to make indie games for STEAM (steam that is taking those famous 30% fee on games, such a surprise LOL), but THIS is also starting to crash many indie devs are complaning that nowadays beeing an indie dev doesnt allow you to survive in RL..

So yeah the problem isnt only limitedto SL, but rather to the whole indie scene. But as you can see, in SL us scripters/coder havent been lucky the past 4 years lol

 

And yeah got also boring job in rl and had great hopes withSL and other online platforms but now iam lost

Edited by Majestic Kohime
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Inworld vendors tied to MP listings so we wouldn't have to maintain a separate inworld vending system, and repeat all the work we have already done on MP,  which eats up days and days of your life that you'll never get back.

Ability to upload multiple images at once.

Ability to set default profit sharing so wouldn't have to redo it every single time for every single listing (with ability to change it as needed for the odd separate listing.)

Ability to have more than one marketplace storefront per avatar.

Ability to have LM for inworld store stored in one central place, say your store profile, -- so that as you move store in world, you don't have to give up a week of your life and update the SLurl on 3,000 items. (which of course you never do, so 5 years later online customers are using MP SLurls to try to TP to sims that no longer exist.)

Customer being able to get redeliveries for copy items.

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On 3/21/2018 at 6:59 PM, Charlotte Bartlett said:

Hi @Dakota Linden

A few merchants have been discussing, and have seen the fantastic news re SL turning 15 and marketplace changes will be afoot for long awaited features.

Would you be open to consider before entering into development phase, a user requirement phase with a short survey that merchants can respond to define what are the top 3 things they would love to see from the marketplace.  You could include a google survey or whatever format - but having this sort of intel would help us merchants have a "voice" that may be wider that forums which has a small posting group of merchants into the wider social media groups we use (e.g. Facebook).

Examples I know we talk about a lot

Ability to have more than one marketplace storefront per avatar

Ability to have demo's listed with the main product etc

Ability to have different colors in one listing with the main product etc

Customer being able to get redeliveries for copy items

(I am sure you have a long list but to give you an idea).

If any other merchants read this - can you post below you would like a survey as Dakota might then be able to see this is a wide spread ask versus just random old me haha!

I also understand some things just may not be possible (so my list above isn't a requirement just some ideas).

I have linked to this post on FB so other merchants see too.

Thank you for taking the time to read.

 

Inworld vendors tied to MP listings so we wouldn't have to maintain a separate inworld vending system, and repeat all the work we have already done on MP,  which eats up days and days of your life that you'll never get back.

Ability to upload multiple images at once.

Ability to set default profit sharing so wouldn't have to redo it every single time for every single listing (with ability to change it as needed for the odd separate listing.)

Ability to have more than one marketplace storefront per avatar.

Ability to have LM for inworld store stored in one central place, say your store profile, -- so that as you move store in world, you don't have to give up a week of your life and update the SLurl on 3,000 items. (which of course you never do, so 5 years later online customers are using MP SLurls to try to TP to sims that no longer exist.)

Customer being able to get redeliveries for copy items.

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I am not actually reading this thread any longer but someone just IMed me asking what exactly was in the "kit" and I got to thinking about Kitely Market (which I am SURE LL has looked at). 

So this is a FEATURE that would be very helpful to have and maybe not too labor intensive. As creators we know that most folks don't read so no matter how much text we add to explain something --- well it sometimes doesn't work. 

In Kitely Market there is a listing of EVERY item in the box (in SL's case it would be a folder) with the permissions. So it is VERY easy for customers (and creators) to know what is there and isn't there and what permissions might be incorrect (this has really helped me a couple of times). "E" stands for Export"

Here is what that looks like --- and I am going back to Blender.

image.png.099f9276d20653b9d6dd2cd68cc5aa1c.png

Edited by Chic Aeon
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8 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

someone just IMed me asking what exactly was in the "kit

If someone asked what was in my kit, I’d think them quite rude!

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My #1 request for a new MP feature:
Whenever somone purchases one of my items, I would like an IM sent to them immediately. I would like this IM to say:
   "Hi"

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6 hours ago, Rya Nitely said:

As some may know, I gave up my rl job because I was fortunate enough to have an SL income I could live on - a small income but enough for my needs.  However, the constant fee increases is making it too unreliable. So I went back my boring job that I don't like, but it pays $65/hour, and every year I get a small pay increase. I compared it to SL where I love the work, which pays me on average around $8/hour. I did the sensible thing and asked for my rl job back. No more stress about how much less I'm going to have to survive on. It was a nice dream, living on my SL income. It just means that now I spend a lot less time creating, and so that's one less person putting in almost all their time and effort for a small income. This is the danger , there may be many more like me, who just stop feeling that it's worth it.

No reason you can’t live the SL “dream” again after you RL retire!

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3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Haha, I appreciate your bluntness and willingness to look reality in the face -- I feel it is best, as you said to Chic above, to base reality on what has actually happened in the past rather than falling to the illusion of blind faith.
It saddens me how so many people, when faced with the powers that be, allow themselves to be duped. I can't blame them really -- it's hard to be creative and exist in love when the owners of the world you create in are being so manipulative.

It's marketing 101 - the procedure that occurs when a business wants more from their customer. They pretend to give something to their customer as a cover-up for actually taking more from them. Sometimes the business actually does give a little, but the business usually gives something that doesn't cut into their bottom line too much, or in some cases actually benefits the business even more. The customer is fooled and thinks they're getting a good deal.

I have to wonder, Charlotte, Blueberry et al. -- are you able to see this? Or do you see it and think you have no power to change it (and so don't agree that one of the survey points should be a negotiation on the amount of our pay cut)?
Do you just not freaking care about all the others on the line losing the loss of a dream as an artist, or losing their quarter or eighth of a sim land they need for a store, because after all you're earning 4,000,5000, or 6,000 usd monthly and with 25% less of that you'll survive just fine?
Originally, Charlotte, you seemed to think you could make up for the pay cuts through some kind of marketplace magic -- does maintaining this belief bring you some kind of comfort in the face of what's going down? I agree with the assessment of many others, and I just can't see how most affordable (for them) MP improvements will cause our MP sales to increase.

I just can't participate in this survey. For me it's like agreeing to being manipulated and accepting the few bones they are (or might be) throwing our way while they take far, far more from the creators here.
Is 'something' better than 'nothing'?  Sometimes, it's just not.

I have not been duped.  All I simply asked was for a survey to allow merchants to answer what top items they would want so we had a transparent list of user requirements and to push our agenda.

It is in my interest to see LL succeed.  I prefer to do that with making positive suggestions and look to professionally engage over it.  I can’t speak for Blueberry but I will say she is an intelligent, highly successful merchant and a very decent kind person, so read into that what you will.

The rest of your post directed at me, is pure projection, inappropriate and wholly uncalled for.   I ask you be more thoughtful  going forward with your words.

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

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I am also a merchant and I totally agree with what Charlotte and the other merchants suggest, besides insisting on the subject of the articles copied by others, there are means to denounce, but they are useless, I am continually denouncing those articles, and continue those same in MP, adding more and more and more.
There should be a more effective method, the denounced articles continue in MP, and each time they increase more!

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21 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I have to wonder, Charlotte, Blueberry et al. -- are you able to see this? Or do you see it and think you have no power to change it (and so don't agree that one of the survey points should be a negotiation on the amount of our pay cut)?
Do you just not freaking care about all the others on the line losing the loss of a dream as an artist, or losing their quarter or eighth of a sim land they need for a store, because after all you're earning 4,000,5000, or 6,000 usd monthly and with 25% less of that you'll survive just fine?
Originally, Charlotte, you seemed to think you could make up for the pay cuts through some kind of marketplace magic -- does maintaining this belief bring you some kind of comfort in the face of what's going down? I agree with the assessment of many others, and I just can't see how most affordable (for them) MP improvements will cause our MP sales to increase.

Let me put this very simply. I raised my prices recently for complicated pieces or double pieces from 199L to 250L. It might have made some of my customers angry enough to stop shopping on my store. But I did what I believed was in the best interest in my business and my customers given the slight difference allowed me to add more options to my clothing without it being a waste for me. I would not be okay with being called manipulative, greedy, evil for making a decision between offering more options and increasing prices.

Same goes for Linden Lab, this is their company, they will do what they feel is right for their business. They will consider that they would loose a ton of mid range revenue if those creators went back to work. Simple math would show that majority of the stores will be within mid range, most of their revenue would be coming from those creators. I refuse to insult the people running the platform by claiming they are clueless. Anyone who thinks they care more about maybe 20 designers who might be within the high range, over their main source of over a thousand stores, is mistaken. They are the crowd who would quit to go back to their real life jobs, and that would be what would rock the economy. Not me. One more time, in grand scheme of things, top earning 20 designers would not make the fraction of the damage of what losing mid range designers in mass would do.

I am not duped, I am not talking on blind faith. I am simply going off of common sense. Of course I care about fellow designers, I care deeply. It is because I care that I keep responding so any creator freaking out reading this forum can have a counter perspective.

Edited by Blueberryxx
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We are all entitled to our own point of view, but we all share one in common thing:

What ever LL has been done in the past it affected us all.

No one has been spared, one way or another.

LL can only imagine what it means to be in our skin.

Same goes for us.

We have to talk to be able to understand each other, and help each other to grow and keep this world alive.

It is our in common best interest.

For that reason, I would love to see more threads like this one is.

And would like to thank Charlotte Bartlett for starting it the way she did.

And for some posts I have read in here, all I am going to say is: I am speechless. Nuff said.

 

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2 hours ago, Blueberryxx said:

Of course I care about fellow designers, I care deeply. It is because I care that I keep responding so any creator freaking out reading this forum can have a counter perspective.

Let's go back to some of your comments (and Charlotte's) from the first page:

You said:
"I desperately need everything Charlotte listed. I would be willing to pay monthly packages for premium features for merchants on marketplace, gladly"

Charlotte said:
"There needs to be a store manager option who can edit or create listings, because we want to be able to delegate but we don't want to break TOS or put our account in any danger. "
You replied to Charlotte regarding the above comment:
"omg this x 1000000.   Would create a secondary employment market in SL as well as trust me I would pay somebody to do that for me RL rates."

From the 3rd page, Charlotte said:
"I think the point with paying more would be having merchants on marketplace who pay for that privilege with a pro-merchant account - most high volume merchants I know are down with that approach.    I also would not have an issue with a manual migration if a new marketplace met the majority of our requirements, for the effort it would take the benefit would soon pay off."

And:
"If we are going to start paying closer to professional fees like we do on sites like Turboblahblah, I am expecting a professional model to operate within :ph34r: "

When you advocate for policies that would make the "high-volume sellers" (as Charlotte put it) earn even more money -- policies that the low-earners on the MP CAN NOT AFFORD -- you are demonstrating a profound insensitivity toward those who earn less. Likewise, when you easily accept the notion, without question or analysis, of a possible 30% pay cut you are demonstrating a lack of awareness regarding how that would unfairly affect those who are not top earners here.
Low earners most likely cannot pay for the "monthly packages for premium features" that would help you earn even more each month, nor can they pay for a store manager to acccess their account to do the grunt work of listing.
Is this an insensitivity toward those who earn much less than you do, or is it demonstrating that you don't really care about anyone but the top earners like yourselves?  I'll let you be the judge of that for yourself, and I will judge you on the policies you advocate for in the new MP features.

I prefer to think some of you were just unaware of how many of the policies you advocate for would ONLY benefit the top earners. We all, initially, only see things from our own perspective. I asked you basically, it was a question if you go back and read it..."Do you not care about the middle range people who have so much more to lose if they take a 30% pay cut"??

I am kind of 'picking' on you guys a little bit, you and Charlotte, because you are leading the charge here. While Charlotte is advocating that this survey should be sent out to ALL merchants (and I applaud that), the two of you are influencing other merchants (especially Charlotte being the leader of the Facebook group).
I don't think either one of you are 'evil bad people', in fact I get a sense both of you are quite nice. I just want policies to be as fair as possible, and not policies that unfairly favor the elite merchants.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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and btw, what's with that Turbosquid comparison? Things that you buy on there are 3D models that can be (and are) used anywhere else, and for all kinds of purposes, even commercially (i believe?) What of what we buy on MP can we use outside of SL? What use is it to anyone other than a SL user? How can this even be compared to SL Marketplace?

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On 3/26/2018 at 11:47 AM, Blueberryxx said:

 At the end of the day if someone is cashing out 10,000 and feels 250 usd is too much of a fee to pay to the platform is going to face a very harsh reality stepping outside of SL. 

 

I have skimmed posts so not entirely sure why things got personal in this thread, but I do know the above is directed at me facing harsh reality, since I mentioned the new fee cap,  so I want to clarify -- yet again: The point is taken if you, like many top earners, are making 10K a week or month and begrudge LL their paltry $250 instead of the previous $15 fee. That would indeed just be greedy.

But what about those far more numerous merchants supplementing their income with 10K a year? The disabled, or moms with preschoolers who can't afford day care, or retirees supplementing their Soc Sec, or caregivers, etc. People for whom their few hundred dollars a month extra income mean everything. Yes, on top of the other fees associated with being a merchant, I imagine that $250 (just to transfer USD to PayPal!) is probably significant to them. Don't dismiss their concerns just because $250 is an insignificant amount compared to a top earner's income. And those and other fees are going to be jacked up again soon. Taxing everyone at the same rate is very regressive.

But in general, it is the financing of lower land prices on the backs of merchants that irritates me, because it reminds me too much of being a Texas teacher for many years (no state income tax + no teachers unions = teachers are piggy banks). So, yes, I am a bit sensitive to being a piggy bank for my "partner", even as I am deeply grateful for the platform LL provides. I just want everyone to keep in mind the many mid and lower level earning merchants,  for whom the little extra income, and these fee increases, are going to be significant.

  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Pamela Galli
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1 hour ago, RohanaRaven Zerbino said:

What ever LL has been done in the past it affected us all.

No one has been spared, one way or another.

LL can only imagine what it means to be in our skin.

Same goes for us.

We have to talk to be able to understand each other, and help each other to grow and keep this world alive.

It is our in common best interest.

Rohana, I would like to think of LL as a friend or partner, but they are a corporation.
I do believe that my evaluation of them has been way on the tough side, as a percentage of what they've done in the past and are trying to do now is due to lack of empathy rather than maliciousness.
I'm angry...these cuts, for me, mean I can't visit my daughter who has brain cancer as much, and her new baby that will be left motherless, or send her stuff to help. Actually, I'm surprised I'm as calm as I am and never have exhibited a full-on Kracken attack even once...

But this increase of empathy you advocate....YES, a thousand times YES.
This is the main reason I am expressing my feelings here and applaud others who have done the same. I'm trying to express what this will do to me personally, and explaining what this will do to others whose ability to work here could be ruined with such severe cuts.
Professionalism...the type that others have advocated here....it might be fine for them but for me....meh...it's overrated, and often used just to mask feelings, to hide -- I want feelings, feelings that express what matters to us.
We need to do as much as we can to show LL how this will be affecting us personally.

See, I do have some hope that LL truly values community and is not ONLY going for the bottom line, or that they might see they are going after the wrong people to increase revenue (the creators) -- I'm hoping LL will see all this and care.

Edited by Luna Bliss

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