Asking Mesh friend is racist or just negative discrimination?

[Skell Dagger]

13 hours ago, femhalf said:

If people are happy with their non-mesh avatars, then it's fine, but they don't have the right to complain about mesh users either, since there's so many alternative ways to get mesh.

1. If people are happy with their non-mesh avatars they have no need or desire to find 'alternative ways to get mesh', so this point is irrelevant.

2. They have every right to complain about mesh users who regard them as inferior, 'unkempt', 'disheveled', and 'lazy', just because they don't want to wear mesh.

And I say that as someone who is fully meshed-up and the owner of god knows how many Bento mesh heads.

Three examples (out of hundreds) of different looks I had before I got fully meshed-up -

Unkempt, disheveled, lazy, and the equivalent of 'someone who doesn't shave*, comb their hair, or dress nicely'? Oh, sure.

*Oh god, I have neatly-trimmed facial hair in my third pic! *GASP!* My point must be rendered null and void!

[MoiraKathleen]

Unless one spends all their time at locations where everyone spends most of the time with their clothes off, I'm thinking that there is probably a good mix of mesh avies AND system avies with mesh hands/feet and mesh clothes at most places.   The derogatory descriptions that the 'only-mesh' people use to describe system avies is outdated, I think. 

I think that a majority of system avis do take the time and spend the money to put together a nice looking avi,  and in many places, with a casual viewing of others around, it may even be difficult to tell who  has a system body and who doesn't.  

I still have some mesh standard-sized only clothing that I like, and even with 2 different mesh bodies available, I sometimes find that the particular standard-sized only clothing fits best on the system body, so I'll just wear the system body with that outfit.  Sometimes when I'm looking back at some of my pictures, I have a hard time which body I was wearing. 

As I pointed out in a different thread, just because a person is all mesh, doesn't necessarily mean that the person wants to hang out with others where the main common interest is clothes and shopping for clothes and mesh bodies/accessories.  

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, moirakathleen said:

Unless one spends all their time at locations where everyone spends most of the time with their clothes off, I'm thinking that there is probably a good mix of mesh avies AND system avies with mesh hands/feet and mesh clothes at most places.

That’s what I guessed, but when I posted a question about using existing clothes with system avatar and Mesh Head, nobody admitted they do that.

[femhalf]

49 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

There are non-mesh folks that do take care of themselves and dress themselves with quality clothing, but just don't want a mesh body.  There are many of us that have a mesh body, but don't like the current mesh heads and thus don't want one yet.  So non-mesh does not mean the av is wandering around disheveled.

 

Being non-mesh does not mean the person is lazy either. 

 

This assumes that everyone wants to get mesh.

I don't think people are complaining about mesh users in general, but about some mesh users thinking that all non-mesh users are inferior to them.

I was using an analogy, a bad one at that, but the point still applies.  I didn't necessarily mean that all system users are unkempt.  Many are lazy though.  They still look like they were from 2009, with their face lights on, prim hair, t-rex hands and broad shoulders, freebie furry avatars, etc.  It's downright embarrassing to the SL community.

And yes, it is inferior, because you're using older system models made by Linden Lab since 2004(?).  Mesh models are superior in every way, except for some slider options which is really the fault of LL's old avatar system it's built on top of.

[Skell Dagger]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

when I posted a question about using existing clothes with system avatar and Mesh Head, nobody admitted they do that.

Probably because most people - especially those that have been inworld for several years and have therefore grown very attached to their system face - will buy and wear a mesh body before they consider a mesh head. I see it a lot on these forums and hear it a lot in inworld groups: many people want to find a mesh head that will look exactly like (or as close as possible to) their system head. Because of this, some people will wait for a long time to get a mesh head, even while they happily wear a mesh body.

[femhalf]

39 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

1. If people are happy with their non-mesh avatars they have no need or desire to find 'alternative ways to get mesh', so this point is irrelevant.

2. They have every right to complain about mesh users who regard them as inferior, 'unkempt', 'disheveled', and 'lazy', just because they don't want to wear mesh.

And I say that as someone who is fully meshed-up and the owner of god knows how many Bento mesh heads.

Three examples (out of hundreds) of different looks I had before I got fully meshed-up -

Unkempt, disheveled, lazy, and the equivalent of 'someone who doesn't shave*, comb their hair, or dress nicely'? Oh, sure.

*Oh god, I have neatly-trimmed facial hair in my third pic! *GASP!* My point must be rendered null and void!

Looks good in pictures, but you will see all the flaws of the old system avatars in game.  Creases around the nose, blocky areas around the eyes, protruding chest area,  wrists, feet, etc.  It's an inferior system.  Mesh avatars fix all those problem areas which makes them superior.

 

[MoiraKathleen]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

That’s what I guessed, but when I posted a question about using existing clothes with system avatar and Mesh Head, nobody admitted they do that.

I haven't tried wearing a mesh head with a system body - if I wear the system body, I just use the system head. However, I do use the same skin, hair (and usually same shape).  I'm still not all the way over on the mesh head side - I recently (last week) picked up another one and am giving it a try.  The last one I had and tried for several weeks earlier this winter I decided I didn't like and stopped wearing it.

[Skell Dagger]

5 minutes ago, femhalf said:

And yes, it is inferior, because you're using older system models made by Linden Lab since 2004(?).  Mesh models are superior in every way, except for some slider options which is really the fault of LL's old avatar system it's built on top of.

...and?

People collect and play vinyl records, even though digital media is - technically - superior in quality. Why do they prefer vinyl? Because they want that sound. It may not be technically-perfect sound, but it's the sound they love.

Some people aren't in SL to look perfect. They don't care if - to your eyes - they look like 'lesser beings' because they care more about building or exploring or teaching or learning or driving or flying or biking or socialising or anything else other than shopping and looking good.

[MoiraKathleen]

4 minutes ago, femhalf said:

Looks good in pictures, but you will see all the flaws of the old system avatars in game.  Creases around the nose, blocky areas around the eyes, protruding chest area,  wrists, feet, etc.  It's an inferior system.  Mesh avatars fix all those problem areas which makes them superior.

 

It seems like you are very critical.  I don't examine other avatars that closely to notice all these supposed flaws - and mesh hands/feet fix some of the issues, I think. 

There are areas of the body in which the mesh body offers and improvement, and I would call it that - an improvement.  I'm not really comfortable with people who use "superior" and "inferior" is such open and shut ways. 

[Pussycat Catnap]

23 minutes ago, moirakathleen said:

Unless one spends all their time at locations where everyone spends most of the time with their clothes off, I'm thinking that there is probably a good mix of mesh avies AND system avies with mesh hands/feet and mesh clothes at most places.

Most clothing does reveal bits of the body here and there.

This is one reason my primary mesh body is Belleza Freya Light. That's the version of Freya without the layers and some other features. It's ideal for wearing with clothing that isn't a burqa (or suit or similar). I am able to retain a quality look where the body does show - and don't need the 'weight of features' as other parts are clothed.

The other brands that offer this choice are the copy/mod ones like SelinA and Lena. Or the furry ones (which are almost ALL copy/mod).

In fact I only use the 'full' version when I specifically need it.

BUT... a LOT of clothes tends to reveal skin here and there - and for this kind of fashion, the mesh body is still very useful.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2018 by Pussycat Catnap

[MoiraKathleen]

5 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Most clothing does reveal bits of the body here and there.

This is one reason my primary mesh body if Belleza Freya Light. That's the version of Freya without the layers and some other features. It's ideal for wearing with clothing that isn't a burqa. I am able to retain a quality look where the body does show - and don't need the 'weight of features' as other parts are clothed.

The other brands that offer this choice are the copy/mod ones like SelinA and Lena. Or the furry ones (which are almost ALL copy/mod).

 

 

The variety of mesh bodies available - and the different features they may offer - is partly why I don't like the "just go get a free mesh body and mesh head" statements.  Finding the 'right' body and head, and one that works with the availability of, and type of,  clothing one likes to wear, is more of a process than just picking one up because it's free (or practically free).  

[Theresa Tennyson]

5 hours ago, femhalf said:

 

And yes, it is inferior, because you're using older system models made by Linden Lab since 2004(?).  Mesh models are superior in every way, except for some slider options which is really the fault of LL's old avatar system it's built on top of.

With a mesh body, you get alpha sorting issues that wreak havoc when you're using multiple sheer layers (skin details, tattoos, etc.), particularly when combined with mesh hair. Not with a system avatar, though. I generally wear an athletic body tattoo with a freckle tattoo over it, then underwear and mesh hair over it.

With a mesh body, you're dragging around literally hundreds of individual meshes that have been linked together and loaded up with scripts which generally require wearing a HUD that is also scripted and contains large numbers of texture files which will take a large chunk out of your texture memory at all times. Given that I usually wear mesh  clothing that covers most of my body, this is a needless complication for me, particularly since I'm often on a vehicles which work better with a low-scripted avatar.

Yes, the topology of most mesh bodies is superior to the default body, but even the best mesh body out there will look bad and cartoonish in certain poses due to the limits of the number of bones that a given avatar vertex can be rigged to. Elbows just... *shudder*

So, for those reasons with this avatar I generally don't wear a mesh body. I'm not ANTI-mesh body; I have other avatars that wear them. In fact, one of my alts was a very early adopter of the old Wowmeh body. However, this isn't a "four legs good, two legs bad" situation - like most things in life the choices are far more complicated than you're making them out.

 

[Tari Landar]

8 hours ago, femhalf said:

Looks good in pictures, but you will see all the flaws of the old system avatars in game.  Creases around the nose, blocky areas around the eyes, protruding chest area,  wrists, feet, etc.  It's an inferior system.  Mesh avatars fix all those problem areas which makes them superior.

 

But the main point here, or the main takeaway I suppose, would have to be that even *if* said *avatar is inferior (to you, perhaps others too), it doesn't mean the person running it is...which is what most of your comments (and a lot of the other anti-system av comments) suggest.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Tari Landar

[Aislin Ceawlin]

11 hours ago, Skell Dagger said:

1. If people are happy with their non-mesh avatars they have no need or desire to find 'alternative ways to get mesh', so this point is irrelevant.

2. They have every right to complain about mesh users who regard them as inferior, 'unkempt', 'disheveled', and 'lazy', just because they don't want to wear mesh.

And I say that as someone who is fully meshed-up and the owner of god knows how many Bento mesh heads.

Three examples (out of hundreds) of different looks I had before I got fully meshed-up -

Unkempt, disheveled, lazy, and the equivalent of 'someone who doesn't shave*, comb their hair, or dress nicely'? Oh, sure.

*Oh god, I have neatly-trimmed facial hair in my third pic! *GASP!* My point must be rendered null and void!

Skell, your avie couldn't look bad with a bucket on his head, lol! 

[Aislin Ceawlin]

I was recently out shopping at a gacha event, and eyed a male avie that was extremely intriguing to me. He is so atypical of the usual meathead, musclebound male that I stopped and PMd him to tell him how cool his avie is.

Now, I have no idea if he's all mesh, part mesh, no mesh, it never occurred to me. We've been hanging around ( A LOT) lately  and I did notice that he didn't have mesh hands on last night. Never noticed before, WHY?  Because he's such an amazing, intelligent, funny guy that it doesn't amount to a hill of beans! I also learned that he is one of the "premier" (as described in an award I saw on Flickr, not me) photographers in SL for a specific magazine and advertising. Not important to me, just interesting that he would have system hands because he's so into the looks of others (for his art) 

I guess I shouldn't see him anymore till I confirm that he does have mesh hands (how dumb does that sound?) All I care about is that we make each other laugh like loons, and he cares how my day was. 

 

[Elijah Pyrithea]

 

If people want to vibrate on the "looks and exterior is all that counts for me"- vibration then they should do that if that is the only true thing that makes their heart pump. Discrimination will not go away, unfortunately.  Naturally, as a non-mesh avatar, I wouldn't come in contact with such people as they don't want to be my friend in the first place. And I'm certainly not interested in communicating with a person that discriminates in such a way. So I don't see the problem. As long as they are happy with the choices they make in life. 

Mesh or no mesh, I can't be bothered with it. I would make friends with a furry if we had a nice level of communication. Even though mesh seems to have become normal, remember that those that think and act differently are the ones that have benefitted humanity the most.  

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, Elijah Pyrithea said:

I would make friends with a furry if we had a nice level of communication

 

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

Mesh vs. non-mesh racist? Nah. If they would say: "I prefer friends with the Solute carrier family 24 member 5 allele Thr111Ala (SNP type rs1426654)" (Google it), that would be racist.

I'd wear a mesh head if it weren't for the lack of rigged points and flexibility, and, especially the lack of decent eye movement. It grieves me to say so, but current mesh heads are all dead mannequin doll heads to me. They all have a basic (Caucasian, I dare say) shape. There's some wiggle room, but most people literally look like they're from the same inbred family. Even though the SL system's heads are cruder, lack detail and materials options, they are still more expressive and show way more character and variation. The current, horribly designed and resource-guzzling HUDs* and dependencies on costly add-ons (want to make your eyes look left or right? Pay L$ 1500 extra) are also a reason I haven't joined the handsome band wagon yet. It's not that I'm stingy. Over the course of years, I repeatedly went beyond trying demos and spent thousands of L$ on mesh heads. They are all gathering dust in a dark corner of my inventory.

Mesh bodies are the same. Set the body fat slider a little higher than 0 (zero) and suffer a see-through ring of invisibileness around your neck. Yes, I asked about the neck problems in groups, fora, instruction notecards, tried neck correctors. It boils down to zero tolerance for body fat. Want to make your feet larger? Forget it, bub. Etc, etc.

I'd be happy to friend people with mesh bodies and not criticize them personally for wearing those, though. In the mean time, I'm glad people put red flags like 'mesh friends only' in their profile. It's a real time saver.

 

* Some mesh head HUDs cause my viewer to warn me about exceeding my graphics card texture memory limit. I have friggin' 11 Gb of texture memory in my 1080 Ti.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Arduenn Schwartzman

[Aislin Ceawlin]

4 minutes ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

Solute carrier family 24 member 5 allele Thr111Ala (SNP type rs1426654)

I figured that was what it was getting at, lol!