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Land is sinking? Although, the sky hasn't fallen yet:)

Rex Cronon

By Rex Cronon,
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Rex Cronon

Rex Cronon

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About a year ago in some sims land/terrain started sinking(first report i have: http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2017/05/second-life-land-new-world-notes-sinking.html). Is possible that this is what caused objects to suddenly interfere with vehicles on the lindens roads, like what happened with animats(https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/418728-encroachment-on-robin-loop/). I am nor sure if ll found out what caused it, or if they fixed it. So, it might be a good idea not to start accusing landowners along the roads of blocking vehicles, and causing them all kinds of problems(like temp bans)...

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Theresa Tennyson

Theresa Tennyson

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1 hour ago, Rex Cronon said:

About a year ago in some sims land/terrain started sinking(first report i have: http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2017/05/second-life-land-new-world-notes-sinking.html). Is possible that this is what caused objects to suddenly interfere with vehicles on the lindens roads, like what happened with animats(https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/418728-encroachment-on-robin-loop/). I am nor sure if ll found out what caused it, or if they fixed it. So, it might be a good idea not to start accusing landowners along the roads of blocking vehicles, and causing them all kinds of problems(like temp bans)...

The encroaching items in that case were in the public right-of-way by a matter of meters, and horizontally instead of vertically. Terrain height issues wouldn't have caused that.

Edited by Theresa Tennyson
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ChinRey

ChinRey

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45 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

The encroaching items in that case were in the public right-of-way by a matter of meters, and horizontally instead of vertically. Terrain height issues wouldn't have caused that.

The encroaching items  had nothing to do with the actual issue Animats reported. That was all about the sim border prim Ben Linden once placed there. The only reason Prokofy's build got mixed into it at all was that Prokofy himself posted a reply about it.

But it was certainly prim drift, not land sinking that caused the problem. If I remember correctly, Ben Linden's prim had actually ended up on the wrong side of the sim broder and it was definitely misaligned relative to the road surface prims, not only relative to the ground.

The road prims have gone off again btw. I checked the sim crossing right after @Jagix Linden reported that the problem was fixed and found Ben Linden's prim to be absolutely flush with the road surface - a perfect repair. Today it's so far below my fairly small avatar sinks almost down to her knees in that spot:

5a9d318635d35_Skjermbilde(1141).thumb.png.f622be3b0186a44b9656d08eac6555d7.png

 

Unless some rogue Linden sneaked in and moved some prims, it seems we have some serious prim drift going on.

 

How should we reprort this btw? Jagix told us to file an abuse report but this is clearly a technical issue and not deliberate abuse. Is it for a JIRA or a support case?

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Prokofy Neva

Prokofy Neva

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4 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

The encroaching items in that case were in the public right-of-way by a matter of meters, and horizontally instead of vertically. Terrain height issues wouldn't have caused that.

@Theresa Tennyson No, they weren't in the public right-of-way, at all. Do you ever log in and look at the reality of virtuality? My parking lot ramps were only slightly on the Linden road SHOULDER where vehicles don't travel, did not obstruct traffic as the zillions of self-driven cars and avatar-driven cars that have been on that highway prove --  AND my prims were there merely because the road was in such bad repair, it was impossible for a vehicle to come OUT of the property.

Prim drift appears to be a factor on the road prims - they still have prims there, not sculpties or mesh. It may have been impossible due to the curve to get the prims any more aligned, but they are now unaligned enough that they may cause problems.

As for land sinking, I hadn't noticed that, that may account for the invisible prims that Ben Linden originally set somehow "not working" anymore for their original purpose, if true. That doesn't account for the problems I had with this road as the lumps and prims didn't result from sinking, but were baked in from the get-go.

At this point we have three pieces of conflicting information from Lindens:

1) Jagix's claim that Governance (?! Governance fixes roads?) had entirely fixed the road and smoothed out the terrain and prims. At the time he wrote this, it simply wasn't true. But maybe he was told it was GOING to happen and took that for "happened"?

2) In response to a tenant's ticket about this road problem -- which makes it impossible to drive out of my land (hence the ramp on the road SHOULDER only, NOT blocking the road), a Linden said that Linden Lab will not change terrain or roads, period. BTW, This is the standard default possible. They don't do that. It is baked in, you have to live with it.

3) Meanwhile, some days AFTER Jagix's statement and the other Linden's response to a ticket, there was first made some flattening at this site, but only on the southern parking lot. I put some additions to my ticket. Then a few days later, there was made another actual flattening of the badly-terraformed lumpy terrain on both the northern and southern road SHOULDERs, so that it is now level at least with the Linden road, which means then I can make a parking lot level with it and it is now possible to drive off my land PS without "encroaching" which was only done as a workaround to a broken road.

This process took over a week.

As an additional data point I could say my own ticket about this road and terrain problem is still pending.

So in Marxism, this is known as an "internal contradiction."

Naturally, one wonders why Lindens can't fix their roads on occasion when they in fact demonstrably cause problems. While obviously LL can't go around answering all kinds of requests to change things on their landscaping and content, obviously there would be certain exceptions if you can demonstrate through common sense and logic that the problem is on their end.  That may account for the "actuality" here -- it's now fixed. But look what it took!

 

 

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Theresa Tennyson

Theresa Tennyson

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10 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

@Theresa Tennyson No, they weren't in the public right-of-way, at all. Do you ever log in and look at the reality of virtuality? My parking lot ramps were only slightly on the Linden road SHOULDER where vehicles don't travel, did not obstruct traffic as the zillions of self-driven cars and avatar-driven cars that have been on that highway prove --  AND my prims were there merely because the road was in such bad repair, it was impossible for a vehicle to come OUT of the property.

 

If they were "on the shoulder"  they were by definition in the right-of-way. The right-of-way of a road consists of the road, shoulder and a certain amount of land on both sides.

https://civilengineerblogger.blogspot.com/2010/10/what-is-right-of-way-row.html

It's easy to see the extent of a right-of-way in Second Life - you can turn on glowy lines, instead of having to call Miss Dig and have someone spray-paint on your lawn. And you had planters in the right-of way that actually extended over the shoulder into the pavement.

(P.S. I used to lay out parking lots in real life.)

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Love Zhaoying

Love Zhaoying

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2 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

If they were "on the shoulder"  they were by definition in the right-of-way. The right-of-way of a road consists of the road, shoulder and a certain amount of land on both sides.

https://civilengineerblogger.blogspot.com/2010/10/what-is-right-of-way-row.html

It's easy to see the extent of a right-of-way in Second Life - you can turn on glowy lines, instead of having to call Miss Dig and have someone spray-paint on your lawn. And you had planters in the right-of way that actually extended over the shoulder into the pavement.

(P.S. I used to lay out parking lots in real life.)

People occasionally park on the grass, under the trees in front of my house in the space between the road and sidewalk. I read one guy the riot act and he explained that it was the County land, because it was the right-of-way. So therefore, I don’t have the right to ask/tell people not to park on the grass (which I mow) in front of my house, under the shade of my trees (which I am responsible for). Irony!

My neighbor put big posts in the ground along the right-of-way in front of his house - so 1) no one can park there, and 2) if they run off the road, they would smash into the poles.

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Callum Meriman

Callum Meriman

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1 hour ago, Solar Legion said:

On the topic of the thread itself and with regard to the prim at the junction being mentioned: Perhaps it is time to wholly replace it instead? As one other has pointed out - that junction prim has some nasty drift associated with it.

They all need fixing, there are a lot that are suboptimal along the Robin Loop - and that's just one small stretch of road

For my own preference - instead of these little 10 meter, invisible prims, I dream of a situation where the worst of the roads are completely covered with a low poly, smooth mesh overlay, set to 100% masked alpha.

It keeps the legacy look of the cobblestones in places like the Robin Loop, along with all the warts that come with that style of road, but provides a totally invisible,  high quality surface for vehicles to travel on. With less bouncing around cars won't go shooting through the air and crash into people's houses as much.

As a workflow it's rather trivial to take a sim's road layout and create a full mesh top for it. Certainly a Mole capable task. But the Lab don't seem to want to make use of Moles as much as they really could.

But, I am sure someone will complain about that idea, so it's not going to ever happen. That's the biggest issue - some people will complain if something isn't done for their particular bugbear, and some people will complain if something is done that they don't think is important.

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ChinRey

ChinRey

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5 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

As one other has pointed out - that junction prim has some nasty drift associated with it.

It seems it's the road prims that have drifted this time. I didn't measure last time I checked of course but I did look under those prims and I'm fairly sure there was much less space under the road prims earlier. Replacing old prims with new ones won't help anyway. It's not as if prims decay by age.

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animats

animats

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On 3/5/2018 at 4:26 AM, ChinRey said:

The road prims have gone off again btw. I checked the sim crossing right after @Jagix Linden reported that the problem was fixed and found Ben Linden's prim to be absolutely flush with the road surface - a perfect repair. Today it's so far below my fairly small avatar sinks almost down to her knees in that spot:

Thanks for noticing that. I'd looked at Robin Loop after the fixes, with "show invisible prims" turned on, and found it OK. A few days later, I was seeing patches out of place. I thought I'd missed that the first time around, but apparently it's real. What's going on here?

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Rex Cronon

Rex Cronon

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it seems that the problem hamlet had was due to group roles that allowed terraforming.

The weird road where an ave sinks down to their knees that ChinRey took a picture of, seems to be intentional?

I don't know, maybe I misunderstood: "Rider Linden: It's added realism Rex, There are places like Palm Springs where it gets hot enough for the pavement to melt. We're just trying to simulate that."

Maybe he was making a joke?

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ChinRey

ChinRey

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1 hour ago, Rex Cronon said:

it seems that the problem hamlet had was due to group roles that allowed terraforming.

Yes, that's what I would have guessed too. There certianly hasn't been any changes to LL's land in that sim for years.

 

1 hour ago, Rex Cronon said:

I don't know, maybe I misunderstood: "Rider Linden: It's added realism Rex, There are places like Palm Springs where it gets hot enough for the pavement to melt. We're just trying to simulate that."

Maybe he was making a joke?

When and where did he say that?

I can't imagine for my life that a Linden would ever crack a joke of course...

But this is a cobblestone road so if they want a realistic melted effect, they need to find an animated lava texture for it.

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ChinRey

ChinRey

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4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

The simulated users are more predictable than the real users.

Simulated? Woops, that was a typo. I meant stimulated of course.

Anyway, if it was a joke, does that mean there won't be any chance we'll get Molten Lava Linden Roads?

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