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Dwellings: size and camming..


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So, I've taken on board that modifying houses/buildings and furniture to fit a realistically-sized avatar is a great way to save space on a limited amount of land, as well as encouraging slightly less extreme avatar proportions in the first place.

However, none of this helps what I see as the biggest problem with enclosed spaces (such as homes) in SL: the camera view jolting around to the point of having no idea where you are and having to rotate round just to see a tiny corner of the space you are in :(

I recently toured a beautifully textured L1400 building and rejected it even for its sale price of L75 for this reason.

Personally, I prefer a decent amount of space to sashay around in while trying on outfits, but also appreciate being able to create smaller intimate spaces for socialising etc

My current house is 25 x 25m, great to move around in, but my furniture/ social areas are looking tiny..

Where do YOU draw the compromise/not care/find other solutions..??

Edited by LexxiXhan
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Houses that have high ceilings and are realistically proportioned are the best. I'd recommend La Galleria / Maven Homes, I think they designed their houses around the fact that people are on 3rd person perspective on SL, and put a good amount of space for the camera by making high ceilings / roomy rooms in general :) 

Of course, you can also edit your camera preset through the debug / developer settings to be lower and closer to your avatar like I did.

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There are 2 well-discussed basic opinions on this subject, and each side has strongly-held views. I'm on the side that RL realistic sizes don't work in SL however you try to adjust the camera position. But I won't expand on that unless the thread developes in this subject's usual way.

What I will say is that there are houses and furniture to suit the views of both sides, so you'd need to buy the things that suit your avatar preferences, which really means shopping inworld so that you can see what you're getting. And remember that this is SL. It's not RL. An RL person coming to this world would think of it as a land of giants. And that's absolutely fine, because this is a different world. So matching RL sizes here is not important, unless it is to you.

The bottom line is, for these things, buy what you can see and try, and not from pictures in a webpage.

Edited by Phil Deakins
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Between pokey small rooms and the bigger problem of mesh-faking LOD abuse - there are not many options in homes right now.

Open plan though, is the way to go, less walls, to the point of large single rooms.

I love Maven homes, and they seem to hold up well at a distance, BUT they have the mesh rez bug, so meh.

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That is why am still screaming for first person mode in secondlife that you can set as default. Don't confuse it with mouselook, because in mouselook you cannot access many things in the viewer.

I want realistic sizes, but the camera is always the problem. Yes yu can change it. But then you get new problems.

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5 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

Open plan though, is the way to go, less walls, to the point of large single rooms.

That's what I have now, and it works really well, except my furniture arrangements are looking tiny in such a big open space! I'm still furnishing a house for the first time though, so I like to think I'll come up arrangements that address that along the way.

When I feel like a change, I may well shrink down my current open plan place..

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Everyone has different preferences, so it's hard to find a universal solution. For as long as I can remember, I have set my camera's default to be at my head level (Z = -0.15) and 2.7 m behind me, and have used viewer settings to Disable Camera Constraints. I rarely find my camera stuck in a small space.  When I do, though, I just reset my focus and cam around with CTRL, Shift, Alt and my mouse.  I've been doing it so long that it all feels natural to me, but I suppose it might feel unnatural to someone else.

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14 hours ago, LexxiXhan said:

However, none of this helps what I see as the biggest problem with enclosed spaces (such as homes) in SL: the camera view jolting around to the point of having no idea where you are and having to rotate round just to see a tiny corner of the space you are in :(

Which viewer do you use?
Some TPVs allow you to remove that annoying camera push in enclosed spaces.

eg) On Firestorm - Preferences -> Move & View -> View -> Tick "Allow the camera to move without constraints through prims" (requires restart after toggling).

Unfortunately there is no way to change this behaviour on the LL viewer, not even with a debug setting.

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4 minutes ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

On Firestorm - Preferences -> Move & View -> View -> Tick "Allow the camera to move without constraints through prims" (requires restart after toggling).

Unfortunately there is no way to change this behaviour on the LL viewer, not even with a debug setting.

How is that different from Advanced >>> Disable Camera Constraints?

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1 hour ago, LexxiXhan said:

That's what I have now, and it works really well, except my furniture arrangements are looking tiny in such a big open space!

Sometimes room dividers can help with visually breaking a big room into smaller areas without causing the same issues that complete walls would.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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40 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

How is that different from Advanced >>> Disable Camera Constraints?

Disable Camera Constraints lets you move the camera further away.

Allow the camera to move without constraints through prims ignores the 'push' the simulator applies to your camera to keep it out of objects.

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9 hours ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

On Firestorm - Preferences -> Move & View -> View -> Tick "Allow the camera to move without constraints through prims" (requires restart after toggling).

I'll try that. I think I may have used it before and encountered a different problem with it...I guess I'll find out tomorrow O.o

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When I made my last skybox, I think that I unconsciously created a camera friendly home by making small sized rooms (bedroom, kitchen, batnroom, 2nd bedroom) connected to a relatively large high ceiling living room. As I moved my avvy into a small room my camera would end up in the bigger living room. It worked like a dollhouse where the rooms have an open wall to the child looking into the rooms. 

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39 minutes ago, LexxiXhan said:

Is that in the Debug Settings?

I bookmarked these references a while back - related to modifying the camera position

http://blog.nalates.net/2011/07/24/second-life-camera-position-tips/

http://irez.me/2014/04/17/second-life-camera-offset/

https://modemworld.me/tutorials__trashed/camera-offsets-penny-patton/

 

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Wow, thanks!

I've been using some recommended settings for a while now, which have been good for going through doorways, but that's about it.

I'm looking forward to having a good read later and finally understanding more about what each setting actually does :)

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eg) On Firestorm - Preferences -> Move & View -> View -> Tick "Allow the camera to move without constraints through prims" (requires restart after toggling).

Without this selected I couldn't walk thru most of the new homes out there now. This was really a game changer and don't understand why its not on by default. 

Edited by Gunner Grun
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As someone with a realistic sized avatar who loves to mod their furniture... I've blogged about this and shared my specific settings here:

https://catnapkitty.wordpress.com/getting-started-in-second-life/#Camera_Setup

And here:

https://catnapkitty.wordpress.com/2015/11/29/how-to-set-a-top-down-camera/

My settings may be similar to those of Penny Patton, but slightly adjusted to what I found more comfortable.

Her settings I think were gamer inspired - a slight over the shoulder camera for 'action gaming'.

Mine had the purpose of seeing the field of view as my avatar might see it, but slightly removed to see her as well, then a frontal for snapshots, and a top down for navigating in thick crowds...

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Have you considered the use of some half-walls?  perhaps half-height bookcases? or like the long fireplaces, that are made for dividing rooms? and some of the fallback...make small, cozy areas, instead of trying to bring all into one big room.  Use rugs to define some...and don't forget bits and pieces...like if you have kids..."strew" some kid items about, to help take up some of that space.  And remember, you *can* stretch some items...i.e. that bookshelf...stretch it a touch bigger, if need be.

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