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Owynn

CDS System abusing me

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Good morning everyone.

I have been plagued by this issue for over a year now. There is a system out there called CDS. I did not know about it until an avatar who owned a sandbox group and I had a disagreement and she and her sandbox members all began to grief me. They didn't eject me from their group, they just disabled my ability to chat in it while they talked about me and for the next few days harassed me in IMs. One of the points in their harassment was to claim that suddenly, just then, the CDS on their sim detected I was using 3a blacklisted viewer, but I have always only used firestorm and I was not even on their sim. They then said that I was now banned from a lot of other sims automatically and forever and claiming to many others that I was a content thief. I have been in SL since 2005 and never have I done anything like this. I thought they were just trying to get at me as I've never had any problem getting to any stores or sims.

However, it turns out they did something to put me in this system. I have appealed through the CDS website multiple times for over a year now and it turns out they have special connections to the CDS system and had me banned unjustly, but CDS will not respond to my appeals. I cannot go to some stores as I am automatically and temporarily banned from them the moment I arrive because of this system.

How is this not a form of griefing? I've heard that others had to contact Linden Labs to prove they have never used a blacklisted viewer. How can I do this? Occasionally, when these people see me, they still harass me with "What's it like being banned from 1500 stores?" or "Can you recommend a good copybot to me?" 

This has gone on long enough. Who should I go to about this? I have never used anything but firestorm. Before that I used phoenix. Before that I used Emerald and before that I used SL viewer. I have screenshots to prove all of this and I did report them many times before when this all started.

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Hello there!

As stated previously before, Land Owners and are free to block/ban individuals from their regions/groups as they see fit. Unfortunately, sometimes Residents do not agree with the reasons why they have been blocked/banned. Such issues are Resident vs Resident disputes that we do not get involved in. We encourage Residents to try and resolve such disputes themselves (within reason of course) or move on.

However, if you feel that other Residents are continuously going out of their way to harass you we encourage you to use the block feature and to file an Abuse Report if it persists. 

For more information on Abuse Reports, please read our Guide to Filing an Abuse Report in the Second Life Knowledge Base:
http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Filing-an-abuse-report/ta-p/700065

 

 

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As you know, having done the research yourself, CDS has nothing to do with Linden Lab. It's a product/service provided by a group of SL residents. If you have complaints about it, you'll have to take them up with CDS.   As for whether you are experiencing some form of griefing, the answer is no.  Any landowner in SL has the right to exclude anyone from her/his land -- no explanation or apology is required.  It's a right guaranteed in the TOS.  Personally, I have never cared for the widespread, indiscriminate use of security systems, and have a hard time believing that they can do anything more than cause image problems for merchants, but I understand why they can be necessary under some circumstances.

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Just now, Owynn said:

A blacklist that is used by others and misrepresents to them falsely that I used copybotting software and listing that as the reason IS defamation, dear.

Look, we know you are hurt by this, clearly you have been trying to clear your name for 2 years.

In my opinion you need to just need accept the Lab will not get involved and you won't be able to demo those animations. You can AR the creator behind this useless device if you like, and you can accept that the Lab will either act on the device and it's creator, or they wont.

A standard warning goes with any suggestion of AR-ing someone, that if you start spamming ARs then the Lab do have the option of disciplining you for wasting their time. But by all means, try one.

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1 hour ago, Owynn said:

I don't mean that the people who won the land are grieving me, but the people who put me in the CDS and the CDS system should be viewed as a form of grieving if it is being abused via friends of its creator having the creator falsely flag me.

Thank you.  Yes, I understood that.  In fact, though, the CDS system is not technically doing the banning.  It's the merchant who buys and uses it.  The CDS system is just a tool, like any other security system.  It can't ban you.  The landowner, using the tool, can.  I agree with you and anyone else in this thread that systems like this are ( annoying/frustrating/reprehensible /choose your adjective ).

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3 minutes ago, Owynn said:

And also technically false advertising as they advertise to the sellers and land owners that it is used to protect them from copybotters, etc, but the person using it can add anyone they want as a malicious user and do so frivolously because they don't like someone or their friends ask them to do it to someone, which is the part of this that SHOULD be looked into.

Not to prolong the discussion, since I do appreciate your basic point, but it's not truly false advertising either.  After all, the person who installs the CDS system can use it for whatever purpose she wants, not simply its advertised purpose.  As an analogy, someone selling a pistol can advertise that it's used for self-protection or target shooting, but we all know that any gun owner can also use a pistol for holding up liquor stores. 

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19 minutes ago, Owynn said:

I'm sure it is not that many, given that their love of using hyperbole, but there are legitimately stores out there that I want to visit that I now cannot.

Have you tried using Market Place?

I personally have never heard of CDS (not to be confused with OCS...my bad), but it comes across as resembling an old system of "Greylisting". I noticed some sims (prison and dungeon) would share information on griefers and add these names to a ban list. It took close to an act of Congress to get ones name removed (or to even have someone from Greylist to respond). A big pain in the ass, it was. I don't know of any sim still subscribes to it, it may have died on its own.

Back to my original question. MP can be used in replacement if these shops that have CDS'ed you or will they refuse your L$?

I think someone has used hyperbole to their advantage and they should either take their business to MP or shop somewhere else.

End of problem.

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2 hours ago, Owynn said:

I'm sure it is not that many, given that their love of using hyperbole, but there are legitimately stores out there that I want to visit that I now cannot.

It's demonstrably untrue.  There are fewer than 25,000 regions in Second Life.  ALL of Second Life.

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33 minutes ago, Owynn said:

And that has kind of been the point i have been after all this time.

Oh cool, I missed you spelling that out, as most of your statements were against the individuals who banned you, etc.

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Just now, Callum Meriman said:

I fully understand what you are saying. And he is NOT in violation of the TOS in any way, shape or form.

He has absolute right to add you to his black list for any reason, including the colour of your hair.

A blacklist that is used by others and misrepresents to them falsely that I used copybotting software and listing that as the reason IS defamation, dear.

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1 minute ago, Callum Meriman said:

Look, we know you are hurt by this, clearly you have been trying to clear your name for 2 years.

In my opinion you need to just need accept the Lab will not get involved and you won't be able to demo those animations. You can AR the creator behind this useless device if you like, and you can accept that the Lab will either act on the device and it's creator, or they wont.

A standard warning goes with any suggestion of AR-ing someone, that if you start spamming ARs then the Lab do have the option of disciplining you for wasting their time. But by all means, try one.

Thank you. That is the kind of reply that I view as civil and, again, I wasn't here to flame or cause issue just... wanted an open discussion on something that /I/ see as wrong. Differing opinions as I said earlier are how we, as a species move head socially and developmentally, but it doesn't mean we have to be rude to each other.

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17 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

Sadly, you may be right. This is not the General Discussion forum.  Answers is intended as a place for residents to ask questions about how SL works (or why it doesn't), not as a place to debate policies or interpersonal behavior.

Well then I am clearly in the wrong forum and did not know that. Thank you, Rolig.

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OK, guys.  I see two things at this point.

1.  I fully understand why Owynn is upset.  This device does have a global autoban feature.  The creator (and possibly the users) can use it to ban anyone they want not from just their land, but from ALL land where the system is in use.  That's an awful lot of power, far beyond what LL intended with the land ban system.  (As an aside, I also note that CDS was created by Skills Hak, the avatar who was responsible for putting dubious tracking code into the popular Emerald viewer.  He got himself and the viewer banned for it.  I am extremely wary of any code with Skills Hak's fingers in it.)

2.  I fully understand why a lot of us are upset with Owynn.  He or she will NOT let this go, but responds to almost every post in the thread instantly.  We're up to three pages already, and I bet everyone is as tired of it as I am.  Owynn, some friendly advice:  you gotta work on your social skills or you're going to keep getting shunned by people.

I'm done now.

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30 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

As you know, having done the research yourself, CDS has nothing to do with Linden Lab. It's a product/service provided by a group of SL residents. If you have complaints about it, you'll have to take them up with CDS.   As for whether you are experiencing some form of griefing, the answer is no.  Any landowner in SL has the right to exclude anyone from her/his land -- no explanation or apology is required.  It's a right guaranteed in the TOS.  Personally, I have never cared for the widespread, indiscriminate use of security systems, and have a hard time believing that they can do anything more than cause image problems for merchants, but I understand why they can be necessary under some circumstances.

I don't mean that the people who won the land are grieving me, but the people who put me in the CDS and the CDS system should be viewed as a form of grieving if it is being abused via friends of its creator having the creator falsely flag me.

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And here I was dropping the Green Zone users group the other day, thinking, "OK, that stuff is history"...

Anyway.
I'm fairly certain that there are very, very few shops left which still have that idiotic snake oil tool named CDS in place. In fact, I could only name one. That garbage is so old that a large base of the current gen store owners probably weren't even in business during its glorious days.
On the opposite, there are tons and tons and tons and even more tons of events and shops where you can happily spend your L$. Even if you really need something from a leftover CDS store, try the marketplace ... though personally, I would rather refrain from supporting such stores.

Don't give jerks so much influence on you. Laugh at them once, then mute them all and go shopping elsewhere.

Right now, you seem to act like the perfect victim for such mobbing.

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1 minute ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

And here I was dropping the Green Zone users group the other day, thinking, "OK, that stuff is history"...

Anyway.
I'm fairly certain that there are very, very few shops left which still have that idiotic snake oil tool named CDS in place. In fact, I could only name one. That garbage is so old that a large base of the current gen store owners probably weren't even in business during its glorious days.
On the opposite, there are tons and tons and tons and even more tons of events and shops where you can happily spend your L$. Even if you really need something from a leftover CDS store, try the marketplace ... though personally, I would rather refrain from supporting such stores.

Don't give jerks so much influence on you. Laugh at them once, then mute them all and go shopping elsewhere.

Right now, you seem to act like the perfect victim for such mobbing.

I actually have a screenshot of the owner of CDS stating public they were banning me when they did it and I think they should be punished and their system removed from SL. because they were "Tired of my *****." 

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I was under the impression that said "owner" eventually managed to get banned for good from SL. Maybe you mean a different person.

Sorry, but you're trying to beat a dead horse. The CDS drama was replaced by Voodoo drama and general lists drama ... and even those episodes are old and have lost their importance.

Shrug it off, move on. There are much better ways to spend your time.
Or if you want to rage some more, grab some popcorn and start digging into the threads over at the SLUniverse forum concerning such drama.

Or reconsider the "shrug it off" part.

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1 minute ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

I was under the impression that said "owner" eventually managed to get banned for good from SL. Maybe you mean a different person.

Sorry, but you're trying to beat a dead horse. The CDS drama was replaced by Voodoo drama and general lists drama ... and even those episodes are old and have lost their importance.

Shrug it off, move on. There are much better ways to spend your time.
Or if you want to rage some more, grab some popcorn and start digging into the threads over at the SLUniverse forum concerning such drama.

Or reconsider the "shrug it off" part.

I am not here for drama or I'd be giving names, which I cannot due per the guidelines of this forum. I've never really appreciated the "just let it go and move on" mindset in cases like these as I normally would do, however there are stores I want to shop at that do not have a marketplace such as Body Language.

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18 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

No drama, but let the downvoting begin. Alrighty!

 

When I last went to their marketplace, it didn't have much. I appreciate the gesture in its purest sense, however, I, personally, don't buy Animation overriders without seeing the nasimations in world which I need to go to their store to do. 

Do not be unnecessarily catty with me when I have a legitimate complaint here.

 

If there is a way to contact Linden Labs to prove I have not used a blacklisted viewer, I'd like to know what it is so I can do that and how to file the support ticket (Ie what catagory to file that under.) 

Edited by Dakota Linden
Moderator Edit - Link Removed
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Just now, Owynn said:

If there is a way to contact Linden Labs to prove I have not used a blacklisted viewer, I'd like to know what it is so I can do that and how to file the support ticket (Ie what catagory to file that under.) 

you have to proof nothing to LL, they are not a party in this issue.. and while you hate it... move on is the only solution.

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3 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

you have to proof nothing to LL, they are not a party in this issue.. and while you hate it... move on is the only solution.

Nono. I am saying that I was told someone else had to go to LL and LL was able to give a list of all known software used by the account or something like that they then used that list to appeal. How can I do that?


Also, the owner of CDS that I am referring to would be one of their alts that is still around.

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1 minute ago, Owynn said:

Nono. I am saying that I was told someone else had to go to LL and LL was able to give a list of all known software used by the account or something like that they then used that list to appeal. How can I do that?


Also, the owner of CDS that I am referring to would be one of their alts that is still around.

LL wil never ever give any information to others about accounts unless it's by a RL court order.

SL residents having Alts is normal and totally allowed. You also can't know of any agreement a possible terminated account made with LL to come back.

But also in that last case... LL will not give any information.

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Just now, Ethan Paslong said:

LL wil never ever give any information to others about accounts unless it's by a RL court order.

SL residents having Alts is normal and totally allowed. You also can't know of any agreement a possible terminated account made with LL to come back.

But also in that last case... LL will not give any information.

Well considering by alt I mean that they are the account currently listed as the current seller of the CDS system that is STILL on the marketplace.

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1 minute ago, Owynn said:

Well considering by alt I mean that they are the account currently listed as the current seller of the CDS system that is STILL on the marketplace.

doesnt have to be the original seller, sometimes creators sell their items to let another one make profit of it.

It of course can be a alt, but we simply don't know that. Also for LL alts are seperate accounts.

If that new person got the items legally, there's nothing LL will do, as long the items don't break any rules.

We might not like some items, or what they can do, but if it doesn't break any SL rules, even if we feel it does, but not proven...it's allowed to sell it.

Banning you from certain regions, or me, or any other resident, is not against any rules. Land and sim owers can allow, or ban anyone they want, with or without reason.

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1 minute ago, Alwin Alcott said:

doesnt have to be the original seller, sometimes creators sell their items to let another one make profit of it.

It of course can be a alt, but we simply don't know that. Also for LL alts are seperate accounts.

If that new person got the items legally, there's nothing LL will do, as long the items don't break any rules.

We might not like some items, or what they can do, but if it doesn't break any SL rules, even if we feel it does, but not proven...it's allowed to sell it.

Banning you from certain regions, or me, or any other resident, is not against any rules. Land and sim owers can allow, or ban anyone they want, with or without reason.

Except where TOS states information is not to be stored or kept which is what the CDS system does.

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2 minutes ago, Owynn said:

Except where TOS states information is not to be stored or kept which is what the CDS system does.

you'll have to get proof they do that and assuming their servers run in RL you won't get far without court order.

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