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Screwtape Foulsbane

Do people still buy objects made from prims?

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Hello All,

 

  Looking into getting into building again but don't have any mesh/sculpt skills.  Are prim-made objects still marketable or do I need to learn a new set of skills.  If the latter, where should I start?

 

Thanks in advance

S.

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Yes, some prim items still sell in world and in Marketplace, but fewer all the time. Objects that are 100% prims tend to have a high land impact, compared to mesh objects, and they tend to look dated.  A skilled creator these days may still incorporate prims as necessary, but you'll find that creators who don't make their own mesh items are more likely to use pre-made mesh components. If you are serious about getting back into building, I strongly suggest investing time in learning to use Blender (which is free) or one of the commercial modelling programs. They all have a steep learning curve, but the time you spend mastering them is good, challenging, rewarding time. You will be astounded at how much flexibility they offer for creating exactly the forms you want -- no more gluing together tortured and mangled prims to make complex shapes.  There are shortcuts, as there are for almost anything you try, but I'd advise you to ignore them and do it right.  You will find an overwhelming number of Blender tutorials for SL on line -- pay closest attention to the newest ones -- and you will learn a lot by lurking in the Mesh forum here.  Also, consider taking a couple of beginner classes at Builders Brewery or elsewhere in world.

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1 hour ago, Screwtape Foulsbane said:

Looking into getting into building again but don't have any mesh/sculpt skills.  Are prim-made objects still marketable or do I need to learn a new set of skills.

It depends on what you mean by marketable. Good prim builds still sell every now and then but not at prices or in quantities that will give you a noticeable income.

Then again, if you start today as an independent mesh builder/merchant with no faithful establish customer base, no mesh experience, no insider connections and no marketing strategy, you're not going to have any noticeable income from it this decade or the next anyway.

If you have been away fro a while, I suggest you start by reviewing your prim building skills. Then ease you way into mesh. And always remember: you're doing it for fun, not for profit.

Edited by ChinRey
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38 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

And always remember: you're doing it for fun, not for profit.

Always a good reminder. If you really need money, apply at McDonald's. They pay better, and you won't have to spend your hobby/vacation/play time in world chasing pennies. 9_9

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Yes, I still have older prim builds that sell amazingly well. They are not "primmy" however as even in the prim days I was a "thrifty" gal. 

Another option you might try would be Opensim where prim builds sell as well or even better than mesh builds. I have left Opensim but still sell things on Kitely Market and MANY are prim builds. No upload costs so that is a plus and might be a good place to review your building skills (there is also the beta grid and you can use LOCAL textures now so no real reason to spend money when practicing).

I had great fun a couple of years ago building with prims in Opensim. Then imported some mesh items later. You have to wait 45 days for your money on Kitely Market and be sure and read all the small print there :D.  

And yes, by all means have fun.

PS. There is a Kitely Merchant sandbox so you don't need to rent or own land in order to sell from there. You ARE in some ways selling things "full perm" (check that out on some Google forums if that bothers you) but really with prim builds you always kind of were except if you made custom textures. So not a huge difference. 

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I do it for profit and fun, if people are buying your mesh and your product it is how they appreciate your art. You can't eat comments and favs on deviantart, but linden dollars are pretty solid for a virtual world currency. I buy all of my pizza and expandable goods with my linden and other virtual goods sales profit. 

Creating is fun but making side cash and making SL better doubles the fun, especially when you wander around the wild and your product appears. 

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You must learn mesh to make a profit in SL now. The good news is prim building translates into mesh. It's the same thing with vastly more capabilities once you're proficient. Took me 3 months for basic proficiency by watching YouTube tutorials nonstop. It can start as a hobby but grow into lucrative income depending on your skill and dedication. 

Edit/Add: You can make a huge profit selling mesh body appliers too using Photoshop skills without any mesh skills.

Edited by wanderllust
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Prims are still good as long as it is an experienced creator who knows what they're doing. I'll buy a 5-prim chair over a 1-LI mesh chair if they both look good and are well-built because the prim chair will rez faster and is always visible from three sims away and a lot less workload on my computer because prims are "built into" the viewer, a mesh is not.

It comes down to the quality of the product itself: does it look good? Is it as low LI as possible? Does it rez quickly? Textures optimized for download?

And as has been mentioned before: Learn to build stuff with primitive shapes because even in 3D apps like Blender: primitive shapes are often a great starting point then 'molded' into the final mesh you want anyway.

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23 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

 I'll buy a 5-prim chair over a 1-LI mesh chair if they both look good and are well-built because the prim chair will rez faster and is always visible from three sims away and a lot less workload on my computer

That's not true. Well-built mesh will always rez faster and cause less workload on your computer than a prim build and also look just as good at a distance. Much of the mesh in Second Lfie is poorly built though, and that's when you get all those problems.

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18 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

That's not true. Well-built mesh will always rez faster and cause less workload on your computer than a prim build and also look just as good at a distance. Much of the mesh in Second Lfie is poorly built though, and that's when you get all those problems.

It is true - and not; it comes down to creator skill, always a hit-or-miss and this is my point. Well-built mesh will rez and resources your system the same as well-built prim or well-built sculpty - the operative words here being WELL-BUILT. LOL

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3 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

It is true - and not; it comes down to creator skill, always a hit-or-miss and this is my point. Well-built mesh will rez and resources your system the same as well-built prim or well-built sculpty - the operative words here being WELL-BUILT. LOL

The main difference between prims and mesh is, while with mesh you have the opportunity to build efficient, (that is: only as many polygons as needed, only as many separate objects as needed, only as many materials as needed, only as many textures as needed) with prims you are stuck with fixed handicaps.

Even though prims are built into the viewer, they have to go through the render pipeline to be drawn on your screen just like mesh.

A well built mesh chair which is built as a single asset (1 prim so to say, not 1 LI though), with only one material will be less workload than 5 prims with it's multimaterials. Where each material will split each prim into even more "prims" in the render pipeline.

These might be batched together again, but that depends on the actual texture assignment.

Indeed, the keyword here is opportunity. With mesh you have the opportunity to do much worse than prims as well. But with prims you don't have the opportunity to be as efficient as with mesh.

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They do sell, specially if they are well done "mesh looking" prims, but I get really annoyed when I place a decoration in my land that is like 13 prims when I could buy a mesh equivalent that would be 1LI. So I think if you can balance the amount of prims used in your builds, might have luck with selling stuff.

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Thank you for the edification. Though I've been in SL just a little longer than most, I am very familiar with how things in SL work, including under-the-hood. Since the point I am actually trying to make is becoming lost in the discussion, I'll digress and just point up to what I've said before and stand by my previous statement:

I'll take a prim creation over a mesh creation if the quality warrants it because a prim version of the same thing, for me (and most) will rez faster. Perhaps nano-seconds, the point is still the point. Prims have fixed LOD, mesh has too many variables, creating a very different experience across multiple users. No sense, however,  going into technical details because that is beyond the scope of the discussion. I am not a spring chicken and have been doing 3D modeling since the 1980's back on the Amiga.  So I know just a little bit about how it works and what the dirty little details are all about.

Kind regards to you and yours, I do genuinely wish you a happy day! :)

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2 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

Well-built mesh will rez and resources your system the same as well-built prim or well-built sculpty.

Actually, as Arton explained, mesh can do a lot better than what is possible with prims and (especially) sculpts.

Here's a quick example. Eric Linden's classic 21 prim Atoll foot bridge all on its own on a white background giving me an fps of 85.7:5a85b52be9a6e_Skjermbilde(1083).thumb.png.11ce8eeb97c22e15d31e3e2d85f5f011.png

 

If I replace it with my 4 LI exact mesh replica, my fps increases to 87:

5a85b5831f863_Skjermbilde(1082).thumb.png.72ecda988b10b925bd390ee501f68af3.png

That's not a lot of difference of course but it's consistent and this is just one single little object. Replace all old prim builds in a scene with optimized mesh and you can reduce the lag with a huge amount. (Oh, and since somebody is bound to ask: the mesh replica is made to look at least as good as the prim original at any view distance, there's no cheating with the LoD models here.)

 

18 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

Since the point I am actually trying to make is becoming lost in the discussion.

Yes and I do actually agree with you there, it's just that you made such a broad generalization I had to object. There are probably only a few hundred people - or maybe even less - who know how to optimize mesh for Second Life, none of them have an account with a Mole or Linden last name and I doubt there are as many as ten among the "big" names - the ones that are featured in fashionable blogs and on the big events, are actively promoted by LL and are behind the bulk of the mesh we see in SL. So you are right 999 times out of 1,000 but not every time and it's always about the skills of the mesh maker, not the mesh as such.

Edited by ChinRey
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43 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

No sense, however,  going into technical details because that is beyond the scope of the discussion.

Actually it was you who brought that into the discussion, because it was you who added performance to the equation. :SwingingFriends:

Anyhow, I wish you happy day, too!:)

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17 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

No sense, however,  going into technical details because that is beyond the scope of the discussion. I am not a spring chicken and have been doing 3D modeling since the 1980's back on the Amiga.

Too bad, your Amiga didnt teach you how to get a thicker skin.

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On 2/11/2018 at 2:57 PM, Rolig Loon said:

Always a good reminder. If you really need money, apply at McDonald's. They pay better, and you won't have to spend your hobby/vacation/play time in world chasing pennies. 9_9

 

6B4527E2-74A0-4B4F-84D8-96D4A854EBC1.jpeg

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On 16/02/2018 at 2:44 AM, ChinRey said:

Actually, as Arton explained, mesh can do a lot better than what is possible with prims and (especially) sculpts.

Here's a quick example. Eric Linden's classic 21 prim Atoll foot bridge all on its own on a white background giving me an fps of 85.7:5a85b52be9a6e_Skjermbilde(1083).thumb.png.11ce8eeb97c22e15d31e3e2d85f5f011.png

 

If I replace it with my 4 LI exact mesh replica, my fps increases to 87:

5a85b5831f863_Skjermbilde(1082).thumb.png.72ecda988b10b925bd390ee501f68af3.png

That's not a lot of difference of course but it's consistent and this is just one single little object. Replace all old prim builds in a scene with optimized mesh and you can reduce the lag with a huge amount. (Oh, and since somebody is bound to ask: the mesh replica is made to look at least as good as the prim original at any view distance, there's no cheating with the LoD models here.)

 

Yes and I do actually agree with you there, it's just that you made such a broad generalization I had to object. There are probably only a few hundred people - or maybe even less - who know how to optimize mesh for Second Life, none of them have an account with a Mole or Linden last name and I doubt there are as many as ten among the "big" names - the ones that are featured in fashionable blogs and on the big events, are actively promoted by LL and are behind the bulk of the mesh we see in SL. So you are right 999 times out of 1,000 but not every time and it's always about the skills of the mesh maker, not the mesh as such.

Prims actually causes more system stress from experience. There is a sim called anime high school which features very prim heavy construction, my FPS there is lower compared to a walk around Vila Mimosa (which is a mesh build)

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1 hour ago, iamyourneighbour said:

Prims actually causes more system stress from experience.

Are we still discussing this?

I think if we made a chart comparing the efficiency of the three main building materials in SL, it would look something like:

 

5a8b67ae7f711_Efficiencychart.png.82a95d460ef94a389bd1575b783a133c.png

Edited by ChinRey

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