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2 hours ago, Parhelion Palou said:
21 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

If Sansar was a typical game @ Steam Or Oculus I'd say you're right, but Sansar is not. Sansar is designed so that WE develop part of it -- this is both so that we can have fun designing, and also earn money from it.  That means we are the ones who have to finish it. What if LL did all the scripting, then how could the scripters develop their unique scripts that have the potential for earnings, both through custom applications and on the MP?
In other words, you are judging them as stupid, when what they're actually doing is giving you a gift.

LL is developing Sansar. What creators can do now is develop experiences. Those are *not* Sansar; they're virtual worlds running on Sansar. LL has to have Sansar essentially complete before they release it.

I think it confuses people when one gets too reductionistic in describing just what Sansar is. Yes, we have our separate experiences, and eventually we'll be able to market them in unique ways (compared to SL), but Sansar is still our root and is connected to these Experiences in various ways, and always will be.
For example, Sansar has rules we must abide by in the creation of our Experiences (no adult content, various permissions on content, rules related to the Sansar Marketplace). And there are group meetings for Sansar participants, two forums for those interested in Sansar, a Sansar type of Wiki on the website, and an Atlas or menu at the Sansar website which lists Experiences.
There will be more freedom in the way Experiences can be created compared to SL, but mainly Sansar is simply structured differently regarding land (compared to SL) -- the land is not presented as a contiguous continent like on the SL map. But all Experiences are still a part of Sansar and must abide by its formatting at fundamental levels.

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

IF you believe Sansar should function in the same way SL does presently then you don't understand the 'creator beta' state Sansar

Maybe is..

B94486B2-1A39-456D-8B3E-CBF2519D4FF8.jpeg

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On 05/02/2018 at 8:49 PM, Coby Foden said:

Phil, there are now total of 888 experiences.

If I were to guess - and that's exactly what I'm going to do - I'd guess that many, perhaps most, of those aren't active, but were acquired by people when it was announced that we could go and get them. I got one back then, and I haven't been back since, so that drastically reduces the total number - all the way down to 887 :)  I remember Prok saying that she had 2, or maybe 3, of them, and she recently posted that she hasn't been back either. I'd guess that a huge number of that 888 is due to 'dead' experiences like that.

I'd guess that there are some creators beavering away in there, but not hundreds.

Edited by Phil Deakins

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17 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yosemite was one of the first Experiences I discovered in Sansar:

https://atlas.sansar.com/experiences/sultrasoul/yosemite

Now that I have my headset I need to check it out again...I bet it's amazing.

Want to check out this new one too:

https://atlas.sansar.com/experiences/lootinteractive/nasa-apollo-museum

5a7dd68f9aef8_ApoloMuseum.thumb.jpg.66f4dc3c4dacc4a76a620efa79b4daae.jpg

Pretty, is it static?

My Dad worked on the Space program from Mercury until the Shuttle.

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28 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Pretty, is it static?

Mostly static, and set up like a museum as far as I can see. However when you land there's a very unusual type of info movie playing with a huge rounded screen.

If you visit be sure and visit the Sansar website to get some tips on movement or you might become frustrated. Movement is very different from SL.

@Oculus I visited a game/experience where one climbs around on the outside of a space station, with a view of the earth off in the distance. Very amazing, as it feels like you are really there, and you can feel the weighlessness of space.

One has to use their hands to climb around on the station,  and then get back to the station after the line breaks and they float off in space. Now THAT made me dizzy, as I turned upside down repeatedly before I gained control again.

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Mostly static, and set up like a museum as far as I can see. However when you land there's a very unusual type of info movie playing with a huge rounded screen.

If you visit be sure and visit the Sansar website to get some tips on movement or you might become frustrated. Movement is very different from SL.

@Oculus I visited a game/experience where one climbs around on the outside of a space station, with a view of the earth off in the distance. Very amazing, as it feels like you are really there, and you can feel the weighlessness of space.

One has to use their hands to climb around on the station,  and then get back to the station after the line breaks and they float off in space. Now THAT made me dizzy, as I turned upside down repeatedly before I gained control again.

 

53655F6B-0604-4646-B7A2-D52CA9C0C626.jpeg

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3 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

If I were to guess - and that's exactly what I'm going to do - I'd guess that many, perhaps most, of those aren't active, but were acquired by people when it was announced that we could go and get them. I got one back then, and I haven't been back since, so that drastically reduces the total number - all the way down to 887 :)

Those 888 experiences listed in the Atlas are published experiences where anybody can visit.
If an experience has not been published then it does not show in the Atlas.
If you created experience and did not publish it is not counted into that figure.
Only you can visit in your unpublished experience, others don't know anything about the unpublished experiences.
We users have no way of knowing how many unpublished experiences there are.

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I'd thought of that Coby, and it still fits my guess. I'd guess that many people who went once or twice, and acquired an experience, would have published it without doing anything much, or even nothing at all, to it, just to see how things work when published. I still guess that there are a fair number of creators developing experiences, but not hundreds of them. I'd bet a lot that, of the 888, not very many are worthy of being called 'experiences', or being developed.

Edited by Phil Deakins

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1 hour ago, Coby Foden said:

Those 888 experiences listed in the Atlas are published experiences where anybody can visit.
If an experience has not been published then it does not show in the Atlas.
If you created experience and did not publish it is not counted into that figure.
Only you can visit in your unpublished experience, others don't know anything about the unpublished experiences.
We users have no way of knowing how many unpublished experiences there are.

I commented similarly.

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8 hours ago, Parhelion Palou said:

Remember that all things in Sansar must work with VR goggles. Walk/run too fast with the goggles on and people get queasy. Try flying (does Sansar allow that yet? LL was considering it.) and goggle wearers got queasy really fast. Walking/running speed was set to a safe level. I assume experience owners can do things (script a chair to spin rapidly) that goggle wearers couldn't handle, but the framework (Sansar) will be goggle safe.

Even 1kM/h is a bit too much for goggles over anything more than a few minutes. A year into owning a Vive I still can't walk far in any game. Warp like movements, or a Blinker HUD like effect to mask the sides and give a fixed point of reference work well though.

It's fairly easy to handle 500MPH+ in XPlane 11 as the instrument panel and windshield provide that fixed point of reference, and the fast scrolling planet and clouds are beyond that.

There is a company who thinks they have this cured, I am waiting for the Proof of Concept to check, they consider that to move forward one should tip your head forward, to move back, one should lift your head a little. The act of dropping your head to move apparently helps a lot with nausea.

 

 

Edited by Callum Meriman
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10 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

Even 1kM/h is a bit too much for goggles over anything more than a few minutes. A year into owning a Vive I still can't walk far in any game. Warp like movements, or a Blinker HUD like effect to mask the sides and give a fixed point of reference work well though.

There is a company who thinks they have this cured, I am waiting for the Proof of Concept to check, they consider that to move forward one should tip your head forward, to move back, one should lift your head a little. The act of dropping your head to move apparently helps a lot with nausea.

 

 

 

7A927952-AA2E-4A1E-9209-6143F8D4FFF3.jpeg

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3 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

I'd thought of that Coby, and it still fits my guess. I'd guess that many people who went once or twice, and acquired an experience, would have published it without doing anything much, or even nothing at all, to it, just to see how things work when published. I still guess that there are a fair number of creators developing experiences, but not hundreds of them. I'd bet a lot that, of the 888, not very many are worthy of being called 'experiences', or being developed.

Publishing an experience is a little more complicated than just hitting a button. To publish you have to take a screenshot to post as the image being sure it's in the right resolution size (not hard to do at all, and easier now that you can screenshot automatically in the right resolution for the atlas, but that wasn't the case until recently.) and write a description. Neither of these are difficult to do but why would someone go through that effort if they had no interest in returning?

So while your scenario is possible I think it's rather unlikely.

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I think that my guessed scenario is much more than possible, Blush, and I still stand by my guesses. I simply don't believe that there are many hundreds of creators busily creating experiences. I'm not saying that I can't be wrong. I'm only saying that I don't believe it, and that a very large number of the 888 are dead; i.e. were not continued in development.

The "888" came into the discussion, inplying that there are 888 developed experiences already. That's an awful lot of experiences, and I just don't believe it.

Edited by Phil Deakins

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37 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I think that my guessed scenario is much more than possible, Blush, and I still stand by my guesses. I simply don't believe that there are many hundreds of creators busily creating experiences. I'm not saying that I can't be wrong. I'm only saying that I don't believe it, and that a very large number of the 888 are dead; i.e. were not continued in development.

The "888" came into the discussion, inplying that there are 888 developed experiences already. That's an awful lot of experiences, and I just don't believe it.

There are now (10 Feb 2018)  895 experiences available for visiting.
https://atlas.sansar.com/all?page=5
Even if number of them would not be developed any further, they are there to have a look at.
They have been developed to a certain stage, and published for anybody to visit.

Besides the published experiences there may well be many unpublished experiences; they are not included in that 895 number.
I have one unpublished experience which I use as my "sandbox" to play with and experiment with features. There is no need at all for me to publish it because there is nothing interesting there for visitors to see.

Why would anybody publish their similar experiences, to show their "crap" to the world? I think that most, if not all, experiences which are published have something meaningful and interesting to showcase what can be done in Sansar at this stage of its development.

(PS. No need to start hair splitting here what the word "developed" means, it would just lead this discussion nowhere but useless debate.)

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1 hour ago, Coby Foden said:

Why would anybody publish their similar experiences, to show their "crap" to the world?

That's an easy one to answer :)  and the answer is - just for the sake of doing it, to see the whole system working.

You think that there are 895 seriously developed, and pretty much completed, experiences in Sansar, Coby. I think that there aren't many, if any. We are both guessing, so we'll have to disagree.

I can guess that, if I go round all of them, a seriously high number of them would not have changed much, if at all, since they were acquired, and would be tantamount to 'my space in Sansar - just because I can have it'. In other words, 'I got this space because it was free'.

But here's a question - not just for you, Coby, but for anyone who has an answer. With Sansar still in need of a huge amount of devlopment before it's ready for prime time, why would anyone have already published their 'experiences'? So we can see what they're building, even though it's not ready yet? Nope. I think probably just about all of them have been published just because it's possible to put them in the directory. I'm not being unkind. My thinking is that, if any experiences were ready for the general public to enjoy - the finished thing - news of them would have generally surfaced, which was the reason I started this thread. The general answer to my question in the op was that Sansar isn't ready yet. So my question now is, why have any experiences been published if they're not ready?

Edited by Phil Deakins

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1 minute ago, Phil Deakins said:

With Sansar still in need of a huge amount of devlopment before it's ready for the prime time, why would anyone have already published their 'experiences'? So we can see what they're building, even though it's not ready yet?

A lot of it will be the Geocities effect.

5a7ed3d92ca16_download(1).jpg.fe35d8bc27c046337f79be837b440f5a.jpg

It's a bit of a "look at me" sort of thing and often involves grand ideas about a shrine for themselves or someone obscure, web pages that are started, quickly gotten bored of, and then stay under construction for a decade.

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I agree Callum. I went over and got an experience - just like the one you posted the pic of :)  I could very easily have thought of it as my 'home' in Sansar, rather like at least some of the list you posted, and published it. It's much bigger than my home in SL, and I can imagine many people doing exactly that - imagining having friends over and such - up until the interest fades, which would probably be quite quickly, as loneliness isn't very attractive :)

Edited by Phil Deakins
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3 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

That's an easy one to answer :)  and the answer is - just for the sake of doing it, to see the whole system working.

You think that there are 895 seriously developed, and pretty much completed, experiences in Sansar, Coby. I think that there aren't many, if any. We are both guessing, so we'll have to disagree.

I can guess that, if I go round all of them, a seriously high number of them would not have changed much, if at all, since they were acquired, and would be tantamount to 'my space in Sansar - just because I can have it'. In other words, 'I got this space because it was free'.

But here's a question - not just for you, Coby, but for anyone who has an answer. With Sansar still in need of a huge amount of devlopment before it's ready for prime time, why would anyone have already published their 'experiences'? So we can see what they're building, even though it's not ready yet? Nope. I think probably just about all of them have been published just because it's possible to put them in the directory. I'm not being unkind. My thinking is that, if any experiences were ready for the general public to enjoy - the finished thing - news of them would have generally surfaced, which was the reason I started this thread. The general answer to my question in the op was that Sansar isn't ready yet. So my question now is, why have any experiences been published if they're not ready?

Phil, while you keep arguing you totally forget what Sansar is now.

https://www.lindenlab.com/releases/sansar-creator-beta-opens
"SAN FRANCISCO - July 31, 2017 - Sansar™, the world’s leading social VR platform, today opened its creator beta to the public."

It is far from ready and complete for general public; to enjoy awesome creations and activities. The "creator beta open for public" simply means that there are experiences where anybody can visit. And anybody can, if interested, create their own experiences and try there what can be created at this stage. Then why people have published their experiences? The simple answer is that we can have a look what has been achieved so far in this creator beta. For desktop users the experiences now are mostly for doing sightseeing tours in them. It's nice that we can visit the experiences already in this early stage instead of having to wait a couple of years, or even more years, until it's "ready".

I have visited many experiences and I do know pretty well in what state Sansar is now.
No, I don't think that there are 895 pretty much completed experiences in Sansar, you're wrong if you think that I think like that.
It is just the number of published experiences where we can visit. That's all what it is.

I'm not guessing, you're the one guessing, and a lot too! Unfortunately.  Guessing does not add anything valuable to this discussion. ¬¬
Stop guessing, go and visit many (10, 20, 30..) creations.
Then you have valid foundation to discuss about the development stage of Sansar without guessing so much. Thank you. :)

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4 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

Also, I notice a *huge* number are:

8d21b5ed3d7ada739b62dbd3fb7e49a8_1200.thumb.jpg.cfc5f9a4e06eca0afe6f26fa06de2c97.jpg

In fact, it's a very popular scene it seems. Maybe 150 to 200 of this one experience. (judging books by their covers here)

:ph34r: Hey, that looks very similar to my "sandbox" experience.

I wonder why some want to publish their sandboxes! That's totally silly. :S
That one is just one of the templates offered when creating an experience.

I have no reason whatsoever to publish mine "to show proudly to the world, hey look, I have this!" xD

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Sorry, guys, but when you start obsessing over 'biggest' and 'mostest' issues as the primary way to evaluate quality you've lost the debate.

trump_small_hands.jpg.5ea5c2db9317d51eff803b934dd3dca0.jpg

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6 minutes ago, Coby Foden said:

That one is just one of the templates offered when creating an experience.

It's funny how I just loved that template when I first encountered Sansar. It really does show the skills of the mesh creator LL hired -- all the complex mesh rock formations, terrain, trees, and shrubs/plants. But after seeing it so much I can hardly stand it anymore!  I hope they get  more prefabs in to start the scenes from. Maybe they already have, but a number of months ago that was really the only nature prefab to begin with.

Despite my being sick of the Highlands prefab (mainly the color), there are some who have displayed an amazing skill in combining those elements along with the use of other  content from the MP.

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On 2/9/2018 at 9:23 AM, Love Zhaoying said:

Let's say I started creating one but didn't want anyone to see it. It would not show up on the list/guide/dictionary/whatever-the-f*ck-it's called. So, there could be many, many more just private and non-published.

Exactly. I never published any of mine, and some in Sansar use their Experience as a kind of sandbox.

If I had an Experience I liked enough and thought I might continue tweaking it, then I would publish it so others could see. I'd revise it along the way as new ideas surfaced. It's much the way I've always operated with the sims I owned in SL -- they were never complete but people could still visit them. And many other sim/parcel owners do this too -- always playing around on their land.

I guess I just answered Phil's question "So my question now is, why have any experiences been published if they're not ready"?

Edited by Luna Bliss
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