Jump to content
Prokofy Neva

Could These 2 New Sansar Features Be the SL Killer?

Recommended Posts

The latest release notes on Sansar shows two new features Sansar has that SL does not appear to have that could make it the SL killer for some.  I haven't had time to test them yet but it sounds important.

Bracket out all the technical, development, graphics etc issues Sansar has struggled with, and will fix or not.

The two new features are

Find popular experiences - Sansar is more fun with friends, and now it’s easy to find them. Search on the web or in the client atlas for a people icon in the top left corner of an experience to find out who's hanging where. Visit these spots to find new friends, meet old friends, discover popular experiences, and grow your Sansar network.

This at first sounds like SL but imagine if you could search on the web (not just inworld) OR the client atlas -- and  mouse over your map, and see from the map level WHO the people are on the sim  in ADVANCE -- either you would see whether it's your friend, because you would have "pre-loaded map permission" I guess (or maybe they granulate that, you grant permissions upon friendsim), so you sit on your sim, see if your friend is at a club, then go.

It seems that the mechanisms are different, more like being able to study profiles on Facebook or Twitter first, before you engage and follow or friend -- in this case, teleport in.

But more to the point, as with some kind of RL app for use in dating or a bar or whatever, you see who else is on the sim with a mouseover outside the laggy sim where the profile won't even pull up, or more and more, the system weirdly makes you log into your Second Life page first over and over again to see a profile.

Here you see their name and profile before, their quotes, their groups and picks and such to form a sense of who is on the sim. You decide if these people have your interests, my be interesting to meet, share your RP or whatever.

So it's not like SL where you see a pile of green dots and decide to teleport there, and see what's what, even if you land in a bikers' club and you are an elf, you're in the wrong pew, or you land and they are all store bots.

The second feature is this:

Live streaming in Sansar - You can now stream live videos into an experience through Twitch and Youtube! Host watch parties, stream your Twitch channel for friends - there is a lot of fun to be had together with this new expansion to media streaming in Sansar.

Again, this seems like "just like SL" but it isn't. In SL, you have to either have a media device like a radio or TV, sometimes expensive or you have to put media on a prim, it's clumsy, steals focus, and it isn't the same experience for everyone, they each have an individual instance of it (if I have understood correctly). This essentially doesn't matter as you can have a YouTube play list be your playlist and the sync does not have to be perfect. Obviously educators and entertainers have gotten this to work for years in SL although every time, there is always someone who can't see or hear it, it's always hard.

What this sounds like is the ability to stream the live video directly from the web, you are merely Youtube so that everyone has the same shared experience not through other devices.

But perhaps it's exactly the same technological process, someone will explain.

The biggest problem for people entering is this -- how do I find friends? How can I be entertained by people willing to entertain me of interest to me? How can I find other people with my interests?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With the first you no longer have to wonder how your stalker found you.  What a relief.

Enhanced media streaming is a nice tool.    I may never use it but I understand its use and appeal.  Good to see this improvement.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The first "improvement" makes me want to run away even faster as what ever happened to PRIVACY!!!!!   Hopefully that is an opt in situation.   I haven't looked at Sansar in a long while but if they ever (and they may have) get rid of the CREATOR TOS (we have already agreed to the LL TOS) then I will venture over to explore. Doubt that I will do anything there but you never know.

 

About the live streaming -- I am not sure if that is possible in SL but Strawberry Singh does some live streaming -- maybe it is within Sansar. That does seem to be a "good thing".  I haven't ever actually WATCHED anything to be able to comment with any validity. 

 

And to Rhonda, in theory as I understand it one could film and "broadcast" live from one location and have it shown at another location. So for example take SL15B or the Education Conference (forgot its whole title) that get full. Folks could go to alternate locations and see the same event streaming. The most I have ever seen is four sims connected to see the same thing (one live one not) so let's say Sir Elton John was to do a performance on his last tour, then there could be MANY locations where folks could watch and "almost" be there. 

 

So a plus there for that tech.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

With the first you no longer have to wonder how your stalker found you.  What a relief.

Enhanced media streaming is a nice tool.    I may never use it but I understand its use and appeal.  Good to see this improvement.

Well, turn it around though. If you are trying to find interesting people and aren't a stalker -- the majority of people aren't griefers -- how can you find them?

In laggy clubs where you can't turn their profiles over? 

As I said, they may have granulated it -- we need to check. It may be that only your friends see you.

Of course "mapping" in SL is a privilege. You make a friend, but you don't check off "map" and "permissions" for objects until you have a reason, a trust level.

Try to see it this way: you can have your private home and sim where you don't have this turned on because you click "avatars can't see me" -- the end! They can't! (Not sure how Sansar solves this.)

But in public places, you are a profile like you are at Twitter or Facebook. In my RL work I browse people's friends (in the news business) on Twitter or Facebook and then follow or friend people that look like they write something interesting or are in my field. And they do that with me, too. Doing that with the pile of green dots would be useful. Of course, if it's mainly for chatting or dating, it's not interesting to me, but for others would find it so I should think.

Edited by Prokofy Neva

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd call it mildly interesting, but nowhere near an SL killer. Perhaps a really tiny flesh wound.

As for finding your friends, I don't know if Sansar has the ability for you to join your friends in the same instance of an experience. I think LL plans on implementing it, but I've ignored Sansar since August.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Definitely not an sl killer, if for no other reason, due to the fact that sansar doesn't have much of an audience yet (and may well never, regardless of how "good" some people think it is, or how much *some* who use it, like it).

The first might be a nice issue for sl, for more people than the second. But I can see how both might be nice features, or at least features some folks in sl might use. I doubt they would be overly popular, but I can understand their merit to others.

It's still not even remotely anything that will have any kind of effect, negative or otherwise, in sl, though.  Two different products, two different target audiences, just...too different in general, really. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, it seems to me you're jamming on the idea that they "shouldn't" be killing each other or affecting each other when they constantly do, look at the LindEx.

You want to believe very hard that they are different products.

But that's not how to see this, because users are not technicians who keep harping on technical differences between platforms, nor are they marketers who want the audience to "behave".

They just go. Believe me, I have seen them swarm out of The Sims Online to Second Life, ebb back, and swarm again -- and now there's no more TSO. Ditto "There". That's life.

People go to features or functions they like, they don't care about the rest.

Would people go to something that enables them to socialize in a 3D environment that enabled them to check out the profiles FIRST? They might. They do that behavior constantly on Facebook or Twitter, and they might here.

Old people who live on that cabin on the range that Philip Linden would talk about would be shocked by those young folks going down to the holler to do that -- but they might because it's fun.

If the functioning of Sansar is scrappy or hard -  I haven't been back either -- so what? You have to see if a new feature might dictate a new behavior.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I recall back in 2006, early 2007 that we use to be able to map anyone.

It was removed from SL for a pretty good reason. The number of questions in this forum on how to avoid a ex-BF gone feral and now stalking is proof of that.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the title of this thread is a little overambitious. lol :D

I agree with Chic, I'd be ok with it if it was something you could opt out of. Users expect to have a level of control over their privacy and that isn't just limited to strangers. Then of course the conversation leads to how impactful would this feature truly be if a lot of users opt out, or if the persons profile had very little distinguishing data to garner a successful interaction. Look at the range of profiles in SL today as an example.

With that said, some of the social tools definitely have room for improvement. I'd like be able to sort my friends list, see a notation on hover and a "check in feature" could be fun to name a few.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*yawn* ho-hum

..and when we click to join our friends in the experience, how many minutes will it take?

..and how many avatars have to be in the experience before we end up in a new copy, and our friends are in a different copy?

Adding a “killer feature” to something does not, in fact discount the fact that it has flaws. “Ignore all the flaws, these new features could be SL killers!”😹

Edited by Love Zhaoying
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this forum post a test for a blog entry? Or perhaps some click-bait for a site that makes money on advertising? -1

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

A serious privacy issue.

If I want to gang up with friends I communicate and then we meet. Why would anybody need such a feature? Looks more like an instrument to meet the non friends on my f-list which I don't want to communicate with. Do I need that? Don't think so.

Streams. I never have a problem to watch a stream. The feature all alone is not worth much. If it's embedded in an experience where it makes sense then it will maybe a nice feature. Looks to me like it's nearly the same as in SL - just a working version - well - so the theory :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Find popular experiences - Sansar is more fun with friends, and now it’s easy to find them. Search on the web or in the client atlas for a people icon in the top left corner of an experience to find out who's hanging where. Visit these spots to find new friends, meet old friends, discover popular experiences, and grow your Sansar network.

I double checked it, and as far i see and know. You not get a list with names.
That icon is only telling that there are people in that experience, or friends.
You still need to visit the place to know.

 

 

Edited by Richardus Raymaker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems to me the privacy concern should be about the streaming, more than the hint about which experiences aren't completely empty at the moment.

(I'm assuming here that they're merely serving up stream URLs, nothing so extravagant as piping them through a VPN.)

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something is being forgotten here. Sansar can't kill SL because it's merely the background system in which 'experiences' run. It's akin the a PC's operating system. 'Experiences' are akin to programmes that run in the operating system. Adding facilities to the operating system can't have any effect on their own. The only time when SL could be in danger is when one or more 'experiences' are attractive enough to spend significant time in. Facilities added to the operating system can help that along, but that's all they can do, and I doubt that making use of the two facilities mentioned in this thread will be enough to make users see 'experiences' as a home world, in the way that we see SL as a home world.

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure that Sansar will never kill Second Life. I like the concept that SL is a world where you can teleport instantly to any region. In Sansar it is not possible to go to another experience like that because of the annoyingly long experience loading times. The long loading times effectively kill the possible joy of visiting many experiences in single Sansar visitation session.

Friend wants you to come to the experience where they are:
Friend: Hey, want to come here where I am?
Me: Ok, give me the link.
Friend: Here it is, just click it.
Me: Yes I will. However expect to wait for me from five to ten minutes before I appear there. o.O
Friend: This is rather vast place with lots of stuff. Might take even longer -_-. I'll wait.
Me: :S

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Well, it seems to me you're jamming on the idea that they "shouldn't" be killing each other or affecting each other when they constantly do, look at the LindEx.

You want to believe very hard that they are different products.

But that's not how to see this, because users are not technicians who keep harping on technical differences between platforms, nor are they marketers who want the audience to "behave".

They just go. Believe me, I have seen them swarm out of The Sims Online to Second Life, ebb back, and swarm again -- and now there's no more TSO. Ditto "There". That's life.

People go to features or functions they like, they don't care about the rest.

Would people go to something that enables them to socialize in a 3D environment that enabled them to check out the profiles FIRST? They might. They do that behavior constantly on Facebook or Twitter, and they might here.

Old people who live on that cabin on the range that Philip Linden would talk about would be shocked by those young folks going down to the holler to do that -- but they might because it's fun.

If the functioning of Sansar is scrappy or hard -  I haven't been back either -- so what? You have to see if a new feature might dictate a new behavior.

 

You'd be wrong to assume they are the same product, even LL has stated, emphatically, that they are not, that the *audience* they are targeting is even different.  No, people are not swarming to Sansar.  It had some initial buzz that drew more people to it than use it today, regardless of new features. I wasn't putting the platform down, but I am most definitely not confusing "shouldn't kill each other" with "don't kill each other".  You've made the assumption, or seem to anyway, that these new features could potentially kill sl. I happen to believe that's a pretty big leap, based on the two products and their two audiences. 

I did say that they are features that would have an appeal to some folks, just like lots of other features of varying different products have appeal to some folks, and not others. It stands to reason there would be some features that would appeal to others in one, or the other, platform. 

Also, you'd be wrong to assume there is no TSO ;)  There very much is, small as it may be at the moment, it exists, and gains momentum every single day. It has an appeal, it has features, that other games, online platforms, virtual environments, etc..that others do not have. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Coby Foden said:

I'm pretty sure that Sansar will never kill Second Life. I like the concept that SL is a world where you can teleport instantly to any region. In Sansar it is not possible to go to another experience like that because of the annoyingly long experience loading times. The long loading times effectively kill the possible joy of visiting many experiences in single Sansar visitation session.

Friend wants you to come to the experience where they are:
Friend: Hey, want to come here where I am?
Me: Ok, give me the link.
Friend: Here it is, just click it.
Me: Yes I will. However expect to wait for me from five to ten minutes before I appear there. o.O
Friend: This is rather vast place with lots of stuff. Might take even longer -_-. I'll wait.
Me: :S

Some of us non-US people don't have the advantage of fast speeds too. Here 1.5mbit/sec is the minimum guaranteed by our phone company. I am lucky, I get 12mbit/sec and even with that it took 20 minutes to load an "experience"

Considering many roleplayers in SL have the phrase "roleplay ends after 10 minutes AFK" or similar, I consider the only killer in this idea of being with friends, is that delay, and it's actually a Sansar killer. Along with the others like frumpy avatars, and so on.

 

Edited by Callum Meriman
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

Some of us non-US people don't have the advantage of fast speeds too. Here 1.5mbit/sec is the minimum guaranteed by our phone company. I am lucky, I get 12mbit/sec and even with that it took 20 minutes to load an "experience"

Considering many roleplayers in SL have the phrase "roleplay ends after 10 minutes AFK" or similar, I consider the only killer in this idea of being with friends, is that delay, and it's actually a Sansar killer. Along with the others like frumpy avatars, and so on.

My net speed is 10 Mbps (up and down). Generally it takes for me at least five minutes to load an experience in Sansar, often even more depending on the complexity of the experiment. It seems 10 Mbps is not fast enough to get short loading times. Or it might also be that there are some bottlenecks on the way to LL's servers from Europe (where I live).

Makes me wonder why in Sansar the whole experience must be loaded before you get in? Is there some technical reason for that?
Why not like in Second Life where the login process does not take forever? You get in quite fast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First, you can only see if there are people in an experience. There are no names given. If you want to meet up with friends you still do it the old fashioned way. No worries about having a stalker find you because your name is broadcast.

Second, we've already had two events focused on live streamed content. I really enjoyed it!! I'm looking forward to many more to come.

Sansar is not meant to be an SL killer. No one wants Sansar to kill SL. They are two different things. Both are enjoyable in their own right. Personally, I think many of the naysayers I hear here in this forum are going to have a lovely lunch on their words sometime in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Coby Foden said:

Makes me wonder why in Sansar the whole experience must be loaded before you get in? Is there some technical reason for that?
Why not like in Second Life where the login process does not take forever? You get in quite fast.

Remember that Sansar was designed for VR goggle (Vive and Rift) users & thus aims for a 90 frames per second refresh rate to reduce one of the causes of queasiness. Downloading the experience as you move around would compromise that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you even allowed by the SL terms of service to live-stream an event to the outside world?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×