Does the uploader remove loose vertices?

[ChinRey]

Possible alert for people who use single vertices to adjust bounding box sizes. It seems the uploader now removes any vertices not assigned to triangles so that trick doesn't work anymore.

At least that's what I found when I tried to do it right now. Can anybody check if they get the same result?

[arton Rotaru]

2 hours ago, ChinRey said:

Can anybody check if they get the same result?

It's still working for me with Second Life Release 5.1.1.511871 (64bit). I used an extra vertex on all LOD meshes and on the physics shape.

[Aquila Kytori]

Just tried uploading  a basic "door" mesh with offset single vertex from Blender v7.91 using same mesh for physics.

Tested with Firestorm 5.0.11.53634 and LL viewer 5.1.0.511732,  both worked as expected.

[ChinRey]

47 minutes ago, Aquila Kytori said:

Tested with Firestorm 5.0.11.53634 and LL viewer 5.1.0.511732,  both worked as expected.

Weird. My uploader flatly refuses to include the loose vertices and I'm using the 5.1.0.511732. I checked the dae file and they are included there so it has to be the uploader that removes them.

Edit: Seems my updater is borked too. It's set to autoupdate but it never noticed the 5.1.1.

Edited January 31, 2018 by ChinRey

[arton Rotaru]

57 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

Seems my updater is borked too. It's set to autoupdate but it never noticed the 5.1.1.

5.1.1 is a Releae Candidate viewer. I pretty much never run the current release viewer.

[Aquila Kytori]

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

Weird. My uploader flatly refuses to include the loose vertices and I'm using the 5.1.0.511732. I checked the dae file and they are included there so it has to be the uploader that removes them.

 I have uploaded my basic door with offset vertex .blend file to here  http://pasteall.org/blend/index.php?id=48834

As a test you could try uploading that as it is.

or the Collada file to test :

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<COLLADA xmlns="http://www.collada.org/2005/11/COLLADASchema" version="1.4.1" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance">
  <asset>
    <contributor>
      <author>Blender User</author>
      <authoring_tool>Blender 2.79.1 commit date:2017-09-15, commit time:08:19, hash:d120780</authoring_tool>
    </contributor>
    <created>2018-01-31T20:17:08</created>
    <modified>2018-01-31T20:17:08</modified>
    <unit name="meter" meter="1"/>
    <up_axis>Z_UP</up_axis>
  </asset>
  <library_images/>
  <library_effects>
    <effect id="Material-effect">
      <profile_COMMON>
        <technique sid="common">
          <phong>
            <emission>
              <color sid="emission">0 0 0 1</color>
            </emission>
            <ambient>
              <color sid="ambient">0 0 0 1</color>
            </ambient>
            <diffuse>
              <color sid="diffuse">0.8 0.8 0.8 1</color>
            </diffuse>
            <specular>
              <color sid="specular">0.5 0.5 0.5 1</color>
            </specular>
            <shininess>
              <float sid="shininess">50</float>
            </shininess>
            <index_of_refraction>
              <float sid="index_of_refraction">1</float>
            </index_of_refraction>
          </phong>
        </technique>
      </profile_COMMON>
    </effect>
  </library_effects>
  <library_materials>
    <material id="Material-material" name="Material">
      <instance_effect url="#Material-effect"/>
    </material>
  </library_materials>
  <library_geometries>
    <geometry id="Plane_001-mesh" name="Plane.001">
      <mesh>
        <source id="Plane_001-mesh-positions">
          <float_array id="Plane_001-mesh-positions-array" count="27">-1 -0.01745235 0.9998477 1 0.01745235 -0.9998477 1 -0.01745235 0.9998477 0 0.01745235 -0.9998477 0 -0.01745235 0.9998477 1 0.1174523 -0.9998477 1 0.0825476 0.9998477 0 0.1174523 -0.9998477 0 0.0825476 0.9998477</float_array>
          <technique_common>
            <accessor source="#Plane_001-mesh-positions-array" count="9" stride="3">
              <param name="X" type="float"/>
              <param name="Y" type="float"/>
              <param name="Z" type="float"/>
            </accessor>
          </technique_common>
        </source>
        <source id="Plane_001-mesh-normals">
          <float_array id="Plane_001-mesh-normals-array" count="18">0 -0.9998477 -0.01745235 0 0.9998477 0.01745235 0 0 1 0 0 -1 -1 0 0 1 0 0</float_array>
          <technique_common>
            <accessor source="#Plane_001-mesh-normals-array" count="6" stride="3">
              <param name="X" type="float"/>
              <param name="Y" type="float"/>
              <param name="Z" type="float"/>
            </accessor>
          </technique_common>
        </source>
        <source id="Plane_001-mesh-map-0">
          <float_array id="Plane_001-mesh-map-0-array" count="72">0.6189347 0.3252544 0.4981782 0.6529852 0.5018218 0.3470147 0.5086168 0.6554266 0.6293733 0.3276958 0.5122603 0.3494561 0.6257296 0.6336663 0.4981782 0.6529852 0.6152911 0.6312249 0.5122603 0.3494561 0.6189347 0.3252544 0.5018218 0.3470147 0.5086168 0.6554266 0.5018218 0.3470147 0.4981782 0.6529852 0.6189347 0.3252544 0.6257296 0.6336663 0.6152911 0.6312249 0.6189347 0.3252544 0.6152911 0.6312249 0.4981782 0.6529852 0.5086168 0.6554266 0.6257296 0.6336663 0.6293733 0.3276958 0.6257296 0.6336663 0.5086168 0.6554266 0.4981782 0.6529852 0.5122603 0.3494561 0.6293733 0.3276958 0.6189347 0.3252544 0.5086168 0.6554266 0.5122603 0.3494561 0.5018218 0.3470147 0.6189347 0.3252544 0.6293733 0.3276958 0.6257296 0.6336663</float_array>
          <technique_common>
            <accessor source="#Plane_001-mesh-map-0-array" count="36" stride="2">
              <param name="S" type="float"/>
              <param name="T" type="float"/>
            </accessor>
          </technique_common>
        </source>
        <vertices id="Plane_001-mesh-vertices">
          <input semantic="POSITION" source="#Plane_001-mesh-positions"/>
        </vertices>
        <triangles material="Material-material" count="12">
          <input semantic="VERTEX" source="#Plane_001-mesh-vertices" offset="0"/>
          <input semantic="NORMAL" source="#Plane_001-mesh-normals" offset="1"/>
          <input semantic="TEXCOORD" source="#Plane_001-mesh-map-0" offset="2" set="0"/>
          <p>1 0 0 4 0 1 3 0 2 8 1 3 5 1 4 7 1 5 6 2 6 4 2 7 2 2 8 7 3 9 1 3 10 3 3 11 8 4 12 3 4 13 4 4 14 1 5 15 6 5 16 2 5 17 1 0 18 2 0 19 4 0 20 8 1 21 6 1 22 5 1 23 6 2 24 8 2 25 4 2 26 7 3 27 5 3 28 1 3 29 8 4 30 7 4 31 3 4 32 1 5 33 5 5 34 6 5 35</p>
        </triangles>
      </mesh>
    </geometry>
  </library_geometries>
  <library_controllers/>
  <library_visual_scenes>
    <visual_scene id="Scene" name="Scene">
      <node id="Loose_Vertex" name="Loose_Vertex" type="NODE">
        <matrix sid="transform">1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1</matrix>
        <instance_geometry url="#Plane_001-mesh" name="Loose_Vertex">
          <bind_material>
            <technique_common>
              <instance_material symbol="Material-material" target="#Material-material"/>
            </technique_common>
          </bind_material>
        </instance_geometry>
      </node>
    </visual_scene>
  </library_visual_scenes>
  <scene>
    <instance_visual_scene url="#Scene"/>
  </scene>
</COLLADA>

 

 

[ChinRey]

Right now I'm glad I'm not a Linden because if I was, my poor avatar would have had to wear Shrek ears for at least a month. I forgot to sort the vertices and of course the uploader will only keep a loose one if it's no. 1 on the list.

Anyway, it's all my fault. Thank you Arton and Aquila for helping me figuring it out!

[Anna Nova]

22 hours ago, ChinRey said:

Right now I'm glad I'm not a Linden because if I was, my poor avatar would have had to wear Shrek ears for at least a month. I forgot to sort the vertices and of course the uploader will only keep a loose one if it's no. 1 on the list.

Anyway, it's all my fault. Thank you Arton and Aquila for helping me figuring it out!

One of my heros made a mistake!  Cool, it puts all mine into perspective.

[Beq Janus]

On 31/01/2018 at 7:59 PM, ChinRey said:

Right now I'm glad I'm not a Linden because if I was, my poor avatar would have had to wear Shrek ears for at least a month. I forgot to sort the vertices and of course the uploader will only keep a loose one if it's no. 1 on the list.

Anyway, it's all my fault. Thank you Arton and Aquila for helping me figuring it out!

Interesting, it is an anomaly that this works at all. I'm not about to poke it and find out why, but given that the DAE loading code is a horrid mess and well overdue for a rewrite, don't be surprised if this does mysteriously stop working at some point. I've always padded with a tiny triangle, I'd never thought about this. 

What are the typical use cases for this? I can see two primary ones, are there others?

1) Boosting the bounding box on small items to increase visible range (at the appropriately higher LI cost of course)

2) Offsetting the centre of rotation

If I hear of any rewrite work, we can have the discussion with the Lab as to whether this is a practice that needs to be supported or left to die. Of course, the correct solution, assuming the two use cases above are the main/only ones is to allow arbitrary scale and offset of the BB on upload. I had a quick look at this once, but "ugh code smell" maybe we'll have to revisit it.

[ChinRey]

15 minutes ago, Beq Janus said:

don't be surprised if this does mysteriously stop working at some point.

I asked a Linden about it a while ago and that is pretty much what he said too. But it's very unlikely any upgrades will affect existing content. They would have to re-parse every single mesh asset already in the database for that and that would be a huge and completely pointless task.

 

23 minutes ago, Beq Janus said:

I can see two primary ones, are there others?

Those are the two I know of too.

 

23 minutes ago, Beq Janus said:

I had a quick look at this once, but "ugh code smell".

You need one of these:

You don't have to look at the code to notice the smell, it stinks for miles around.

 

39 minutes ago, Beq Janus said:

maybe we'll have to revisit it.

You can say that again - and again and again and...

[Beq Janus]

4 hours ago, ChinRey said:

I asked a Linden about it a while ago and that is pretty much what he said too. But it's very unlikely any upgrades will affect existing content. They would have to re-parse every single mesh asset already in the database for that and that would be a huge and completely pointless task.

I actually suggested a re-parse (slight tongue in cheek) recently and the response was "we don't touch legacy content" so you are safe :-)

Edited February 2, 2018 by Beq Janus