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cykarushb

Firestorm vs the LL Viewer

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I downloaded the singularity alpha build 6994

went into settings preferences it lets you change the memory via text at first I thought I was golden but it reset anything I typed into it to 2048 and I uninstalled it that is as far as I got with it no point in trying software that doesn't work

https://ibb.co/eV83fV

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21 hours ago, Willow Wilder said:

Let me help with your confusion. I'm the "nobody" who approves (or not) Firestorm beta tester applications.  You're welcome. 

out of curiosity is the software 32 bit? because on the page here you claim

quote

  • All builds are Large Address Aware for systems with greater than 2 gig memory

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Third_Party_Viewer_Directory/Firestorm

but this is untrue as you cannot use more then 2048mb 2GB with any version of firestorm

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You have had it explained to you repeatedly and yet you refuse to listen, let alone understand. 

I'll make it simple for you. 

There is no reason at all to dedicate more than two gigabytes of Video RAM to the Texture Buffer. None. At all. 

All 64 bit versions of the Second Life software will recognize and use more than four gigabytes of system RAM. Note the key there - system RAM. 

The RAM on your video card is used specifically for and by... The video card. It is used system wide for far more than simple texture loading. 

You are complaining about being unable to tell a single application to monopolize video card memory. It has been repeatedly explained to you why the limit is in place. 

You have no valid argument. None 

You have been told - repeatedly - what to do if you insist on ignoring everyone (and reality).

Go, do it. 

ETA: TPV devs have far more important things to work on, such as keeping up with code merges and trying to fix or work around platform specific issues. 

Edited by Solar Legion
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I think I posted before elsewhere that I've got GPUs capable of SL without graphical issues with a wild variance of video memory if anyone would like to see SL on 128mb of vram vs 512, 1gb, 2/4/8 etc

Unless there's a way to disable quantities of vram to keep it all on the same card though I've been holding off on that test since even if some of the lower end cards can play SL, obviously framerate would differ and I wouldn't want to have to just point out specific issues with textures because that's also kind of inconsistent and hard to test.

Ive yet to see texture related problems though with anything more than 256mb of vram, and only really in densely detailed places. Eventually it just uses system ram instead of the vram for short term texture display and it's slow to load but it's there.

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Actually looking into this, the only way I could do it is with 8800GTS cards.

To change vram quantities on the same card you need to modify the bios and it gets really unstable and may toast itself if you do that.

However the 8800GTS came in 320mb, 512mb, 640mb and 1gb versions. The difficulty is the last 1gb version is extremely rare and super expensive when they do show up on eBay. But otherwise with all GTS cards they could be clocked the same and have the same performance outside of video memory quantity to give an accurate measurement of how much video memory affects performance in SL

If I can find a 1gb 8800GTS I'll do it.

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I gave Alchemy viewer a try

2048mb

https://ibb.co/hk9aXA

here it says quote

An experimental Second Life™ viewer striving to be at the forefront of stability, performance, and technological advancement in the open-source metaverse viewer field.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Third_Party_Viewer_Directory

I wouldn't say so. no different then the rest tried one tried them all at best a slight ui user interface change and that is all

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_interface

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8 hours ago, mygoditsfullofstars said:

Is it safe for me to override another default?

Maybe, just maybe, when asking this question you should ask wether you would believe the opinion of others on other topics too?

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Wow. This thread has gotten busy! 

Only thing I'm still curious about is why Firestorm hogs up so much memory on a computer. I still think it's rediculous that it can take up almost all of my laptop's memory resources when my settings are at the lowest it can go.  The official LL viewer barely takes up much memory even when I go to a more complex sim or what not. I feel like there's a memory leak issue somewhere because at this point I've ruled out my laptop being an issue. 

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6 hours ago, ChibiDragon007 said:

Wow. This thread has gotten busy! 

Only thing I'm still curious about is why Firestorm hogs up so much memory on a computer. I still think it's rediculous that it can take up almost all of my laptop's memory resources when my settings are at the lowest it can go.  The official LL viewer barely takes up much memory even when I go to a more complex sim or what not. I feel like there's a memory leak issue somewhere because at this point I've ruled out my laptop being an issue. 

Always the same nonsense about memory leaks. I mentioned it before already it might use more memory as the LL viewer.

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6 hours ago, ChibiDragon007 said:

Wow. This thread has gotten busy! 

Only thing I'm still curious about is why Firestorm hogs up so much memory on a computer. I still think it's rediculous that it can take up almost all of my laptop's memory resources when my settings are at the lowest it can go.  The official LL viewer barely takes up much memory even when I go to a more complex sim or what not. I feel like there's a memory leak issue somewhere because at this point I've ruled out my laptop being an issue. 

What do you have your viewer texture memory buffer set to?
Preferences -> Graphics -> Hardware Settings.

Ansariel already explained above that the texture pipeline keeps copies of about twice the images in VRAM in the actual system memory.

The LL viewer is limited to 512MB of texture memory.

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12 hours ago, ChibiDragon007 said:

Only thing I'm still curious about is why Firestorm hogs up so much memory on a computer.

How much memory are you talking about?  I was logged in via Firestorm all day yesterday (about 15 hours total), bopping all over the grid to hit tons of stores for the sales, and my memory usage was showing roughly 2 GB when I shut things down last night.

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7 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

How much memory are you talking about?  I was logged in via Firestorm all day yesterday (about 15 hours total), bopping all over the grid to hit tons of stores for the sales, and my memory usage was showing roughly 2 GB when I shut things down last night.

I was showing almost 6 of my 8gb total memory being used on my MacBook Pro. It also makes my MacBook heat up like crazy and it’s rediculous. No program should be sucking up that much resources on any computer. 

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19 hours ago, ChibiDragon007 said:

I was showing almost 6 of my 8gb total memory being used on my MacBook Pro. It also makes my MacBook heat up like crazy and it’s rediculous. No program should be sucking up that much resources on any computer. 

I'm going to need to get my MacBook out later and check this out.  I mainly use a windows desktop now for SL because it has a graphics card, and I haven't seen that high of memory use with any of the viewers I tried, including Firestorm.  Between LL viewer, FS and CoolVL (I think - anyway, one of the other 3rd party viewers) I didn't see significant differences in memory use.  

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4 hours ago, moirakathleen said:

I'm going to need to get my MacBook out later and check this out.  I mainly use a windows desktop now for SL because it has a graphics card, and I haven't seen that high of memory use with any of the viewers I tried, including Firestorm.  Between LL viewer, FS and CoolVL (I think - anyway, one of the other 3rd party viewers) I didn't see significant differences in memory use.  

I'll have to check it again now that I got a replacement Macbook Pro tonight (my one I was using finally decided to crap out on me - and not just because of SL lmao) and see if there's any difference with the slight upgrade this 2018 model as opposed to the 2016 model I was using.

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2 hours ago, ChibiDragon007 said:

I'll have to check it again now that I got a replacement Macbook Pro tonight (my one I was using finally decided to crap out on me - and not just because of SL lmao) and see if there's any difference with the slight upgrade this 2018 model as opposed to the 2016 model I was using.

spoiler, its gonna be just as bad

i dont know why people bother with apple products when they have a history of having bad experiences with apple products

the tl;dr version is: anemic tiny cooler + next to no airflow + extremely poorly constructed mainboard = constant thermal problems and eventual solder failure
its been going on since like 2006, i dont know how they keep getting away with it, every single apple product that has ever been made since the mid 2000's has had some kind of serious problem that occurs with it, whether its the old macbooks that had the gpu die because it unsoldered itself due to heat, or the new airs that literally came out of the factory thermal throttling, or the pros that did the same

or the trash can mac pro thats been on sale since 2013 and still manages to thermal throttle even though the entire thing is basically one giant fan
or the mac mini that just came out that has soldered storage and once again an anemic cooler and no airflow
or the 2016 macbooks and the jtag corrosion issue

 

off topic but damn, why does XYZ program suck on a mac? its a mac, buy a real computer, or if you insist on apple, buy a powerbook G4 and dont bother with anything newer

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2 hours ago, cykarushb said:

spoiler, its gonna be just as bad

i dont know why people bother with apple products when they have a history of having bad experiences with apple products

the tl;dr version is: anemic tiny cooler + next to no airflow + extremely poorly constructed mainboard = constant thermal problems and eventual solder failure
its been going on since like 2006, i dont know how they keep getting away with it, every single apple product that has ever been made since the mid 2000's has had some kind of serious problem that occurs with it, whether its the old macbooks that had the gpu die because it unsoldered itself due to heat, or the new airs that literally came out of the factory thermal throttling, or the pros that did the same

or the trash can mac pro thats been on sale since 2013 and still manages to thermal throttle even though the entire thing is basically one giant fan
or the mac mini that just came out that has soldered storage and once again an anemic cooler and no airflow
or the 2016 macbooks and the jtag corrosion issue

 

off topic but damn, why does XYZ program suck on a mac? its a mac, buy a real computer, or if you insist on apple, buy a powerbook G4 and dont bother with anything newer

Way to go completely off-topic my dude. But for reference, the Apple Store exchanged my old Macbook for the new one I'm using. And the issue with Firestorm isn't simply my Macbook not being able to handle the program. On older versions of the viewer I didn't experience this issue at all, barely any heating whatsoever. This newest version clearly has a memory leak issue of some kind going on, and the Firestorm Support group in world had other group members experiencing the same thing. Both other Mac users and those on Windows 10 were dealing with it. It's something the devs either haven't seen yet or seem adamant on not fixing.

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I use both for different reasons. I slightly prefer Firestorm for some features and especially the look of the dashboard, but it doesn't prevent me from using LL.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Tkemine Rossini said:

I use both for different reasons. I slightly prefer Firestorm for some features and especially the look of the dashboard, but it doesn't prevent me from using LL.

I reply because new information since the previous post to yours: Try Catznip viewer - newest version in February 2019 has a performance boost that runs circles around the LL and Firestorm viewers. I've no intention of changing minds about viewer-use, though you may want to hit up Catznip instead of firing up the LL. And if performance is your priority, you may end up doing as I do: Catznip full time and Firestorm only when wanting a particular feature. (http://catznip.com) - But only for windows, fingers and toes crossed hard on all hands and feet for a macOS version eventually.

Edited by Alyona Su

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On 1/28/2018 at 9:52 PM, cykarushb said:

Just wondering, what are your preferences for the LL viewer vs Firestorm? Is there any performance benefit for you and your hardware configuration?

The main reason I prefer Firestorm over the Vanilla SL Viewer is the ability to use it in "Phoenix Mode" i.e. V1 style UI.

Other than that, there are just a million options on Firestorm that are absent on Vanilla, and yes, some of those do improve performance, such as the ability to lock textures at 512x512 max resolution on the 64 bit viewer, or lower the shadow factor below 1 for example.

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On 1/29/2018 at 6:43 AM, Chic Aeon said:

The large majority of Second Life folks use Firestorm. For me and likely for most of the others from comments made on these forums --  it is not about performance, it is about FEATURES. There are dozens of FS feature that I use everyday and do NOT want to be without. When I had to use the Linden viewer briefly to upload complex mesh (apparently that isn't something we have to do from now on --- happily) it was oh so

PAINFUL.

 

 

What do you mean by the features

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