COMPLEXITY?

[starflitz]

So I have been using Second Life, Firestorm 5.0.7.52912 version all week and I get a red label overtop of people's head in-world saying "complexity" and it has numbers. I sometimes can see the shadow of everyone but they won't rezz I need help, do I need to download the new update or just change the settings in my firestorm viewer?

[Claireschen Hesten]

Downloading the new viewer isn't necessary just yet, if you don't want to see complexity values on peoples name tags open up preferences Ctrl + P in the general tab there is an option to toggle whether or not to show complexity and in the graphics tab is an option to render avatars up to a certain complexity value on mine anyone greater than 80k will be a jelly doll (shadow). In the FS quick prefs you can also adjust the max complexity you wish to render, it can be set to unlimited but is not recommended if you want to avoid people with worn crashers/laggers
Something you might like to add to the never show section of the Notification > Alerts tab is "warn me if my complexity may be too high" as it may come up a lot and get irritating

[Paul Hexem]

Those people being shadows are shadows because they're laggy. It's supposed to be that way. Tell them to be less laggy.

[Willow Wilder]

On 26/01/2018 at 8:05 PM, starflitz said:

So I have been using Second Life, Firestorm 5.0.7.52912 version all week and I get a red label overtop of people's head in-world saying "complexity" and it has numbers. I sometimes can see the shadow of everyone but they won't rezz I need help, do I need to download the new update or just change the settings in my firestorm viewer?

Here's a complete list of Firestorm settings along with a short video by Torley Linden explaining the feature which should help you understand Avatar Complexity better  http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_avatar_complexity_settings

 

12 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:

Those people being shadows are shadows because they're laggy. It's supposed to be that way. Tell them to be less laggy.

Not really. It's entirely dependant on the user's settings which are within their control. My ACI is currently 36,132 which I consider quite reasonable, but I would be a jellydoll to someone with their complexity set to default low of 35,000. I see no reason for anyone to contact me to tell me I'm making them laggy when all of their settings are within their control, including derender if they want to. 

This is one of the reasons those ARC detectors that eject you from venues are rather silly. 

[starflitz]

58 minutes ago, Willow Wilder said:

Here's a complete list of Firestorm settings along with a short video by Torley Linden explaining the feature which should help you understand Avatar Complexity better  http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_avatar_complexity_settings

 

Not really. It's entirely dependant on the user's settings which are within their control. My ACI is currently 36,132 which I consider quite reasonable, but I would be a jellydoll to someone with their complexity set to default low of 35,000. I see no reason for anyone to contact me to tell me I'm making them laggy when all of their settings are within their control, including derender if they want to. 

This is one of the reasons those ARC detectors that eject you from venues are rather silly. 

Thank you, this will help me. I change my complexity to as high as I could and I'm not sure if that is what you mean with ACI but everything is back up now.

[Willow Wilder]

1 hour ago, starflitz said:

Thank you, this will help me. I change my complexity to as high as I could and I'm not sure if that is what you mean with ACI but everything is back up now.

You're welcome. ACI stands for Avatar Complexity Information. That number you mentioned you were seeing over heads. ARC (Avatar Rendering Cost) is the old terminology using the old method. 

[LittleMe Jewell]

18 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:

Those people being shadows are shadows because they're laggy. It's supposed to be that way. Tell them to be less laggy.

Depending on where I'm at and what is happening there, I may have my jelly doll setting at the absolute lowest.  Then anybody over 20k will render as a blob to me, but that doesn't mean that anyone over 20k is laggy - to me or anyone else.

For the most part, laggy depends on the computer running the viewer that is rendering said person.  If the computer is not very good, then someone with a CI of 20k could be a load on their system, yet a really powerful computer with a great graphics card wouldn't necessarily seem impacted by someone with a CI of 100k.

[Paul Hexem]

6 hours ago, Willow Wilder said:

Not really. It's entirely dependant on the user's settings which are within their control. My ACI is currently 36,132 which I consider quite reasonable, but I would be a jellydoll to someone with their complexity set to default low of 35,000. I see no reason for anyone to contact me to tell me I'm making them laggy when all of their settings are within their control, including derender if they want to. 

This is one of the reasons those ARC detectors that eject you from venues are rather silly. 

 

4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Depending on where I'm at and what is happening there, I may have my jelly doll setting at the absolute lowest.  Then anybody over 20k will render as a blob to me, but that doesn't mean that anyone over 20k is laggy - to me or anyone else.

For the most part, laggy depends on the computer running the viewer that is rendering said person.  If the computer is not very good, then someone with a CI of 20k could be a load on their system, yet a really powerful computer with a great graphics card wouldn't necessarily seem impacted by someone with a CI of 100k.

Psh. Just what someone laggy would say.

[Willow Wilder]

2 minutes ago, Gadget Portal said:

 

Psh. Just what someone laggy would say.

Just don't call me and you'll be fine.   

[LittleMe Jewell]

38 minutes ago, Gadget Portal said:

 

Psh. Just what someone laggy would say.

And this is what someone would say that doesn't have an appropriate response to facts, while your initial comment was the response of someone that either doesn't truly understand CI or was just being flippant.

 

For most people 30-50k is not considered laggy, which is what my CI typically is unless I've donned something complex specfically for a picture - and then I stay away from busy sims.

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by LittleMe Jewell

[Paul Hexem]

Phil gets it.

[Phil Deakins]

Oh good   The posts that followed made me wonder if maybe I'd misunderstood.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[LittleMe Jewell]

11 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Oh good   The posts that followed made me wonder if maybe I'd misunderstood.

It must be too early for me, as I'm obviously missing something.  I'll come back later after breakfast and more coffee.

[Phil Deakins]

When I read it, it looked like humour to me, and it made me chuckle. So I laughed with it - not at it.

[arabellajones]

Isn't the big problem with high avatar complexity that it implies the avatar needs more data to be downloaded? The impression I get is that avatar data doesn't stay in the cache for very long, if at all, compared to other types of data. That's something that isn't affected by display settings or the processing power of the computer.

I try and run a low-complexity avatar for the big events, such as SLB, and my usual "furry" AV comes in at around 10k. A friend has a Mesh avatar that is usually running at under 20k, with full clothing. And yesterday I saw an AV running at 250k, totally naked. I know the Lindens introduced complexity, but it still not mentioned on the Marketplace, people still use complicated avatars, and I have to wonder where it was worth all the trouble to set up.

[Willow Wilder]

1 hour ago, Phil Deakins said:

Oh good   The posts that followed made me wonder if maybe I'd misunderstood.

Whether the reply was flippant or ill-informed, I didn't see it as helpful for the OP, hence my response.  Avatar Complexity has turned out to be more difficult to comprehend than I believe most people anticipated, which in turn, has caused a fair amount of frustration and a lack of understanding. I think that's unfortunate as it does have benefits for helping to cut down on lag. People are always screaming for methods to help cut down on lag, and when methods are introduced, some will just scream more if they have to take some time to understand it.  

[ChinRey]

On 28.1.2018 at 10:32 AM, Willow Wilder said:

This is one of the reasons those ARC detectors that eject you from venues are rather silly. 

Abnother good reason is that they don't work. It is not possible for a script to read the ARC of an avatar. There is a function that is supposed to do that but it's so messed up, unreliable and unpredictable you might as well throw a dice.

 

15 hours ago, arabellajones said:

Isn't the big problem with high avatar complexity that it implies the avatar needs more data to be downloaded?

Not quite. it's supposed to be a measurement of the work the graphic processor has to handle, not the amount of downloaded data although the two are of coruse related.

 

15 hours ago, arabellajones said:

I know the Lindens introduced complexity, but it still not mentioned on the Marketplace, people still use complicated avatars, and I have to wonder where it was worth all the trouble to set up.

The render complexity system has been around under different names at least since 2011. But it was just a number you could look up if you really wanted to and knew where it was hidden. It was only recently it began to dawn on LL that client side load actually does matter. The whole Jellydoll thingy was cooked up in a panic and a rush and yes, it's not good, it's not good at all. But it's the only thing we've got.

Edited January 29, 2018 by ChinRey