swapping from premium to basic account

[Kawaii09Cutie]

I can no longer afford to keep paying the price for my premium account. I tried swapping back to basic but every time I do it tells me that I must release my land first. I can't figure out how to do this but I really need the account back to basic before the next billing cycle. 

[Rolig Loon]

1. Go to your dashboard at secondlife.com

2. open the Land Manager

3.  Look for your land

4. Go there

5. Abandon or sell it.

 

[Rolig Loon]

Right.  That's why Step#4 says "Go There".  You have be in your land to abandon it.  To abandon, open World >> About Land >> General and click Abandon Land.

[Kawaii09Cutie]

6 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

1. Go to your dashboard at secondlife.com

2. open the Land Manager

3.  Look for your land

4. Go there

5. Abandon or sell it.

 

I've looked under the my land manager tab several times and there are zero options for me to abandon or sell it.  I can see my land, it's location and land fees but there is not a single place to click that says abandon or sell. 

[Kawaii09Cutie]

Thank you I figured it out. I'm using Firestorm and it was giving me issues getting it to open from the secondlife website. 

[Chic Aeon]

Also note that you are billed for the last month that you owned land. So you actually need to abandon a month BEFORE you change back to basic. If you have a 512 you will be billed $5, if you own more you will be billed more. So it might be better to keep your premium for another month. It depends on a few things like if you are monthly or yearly and how much land you own.

Also note that if you take back your tier from a group you cannot do anything for the next month. Then you can buy your own land or get a linden home or go back to basic. 

Good luck. It is complex. Most of us got caught one way or another over time. 

 

ALSO if you are turning back land you need to go to your land are on the webpage and change you tier that you want to pay down to 0 or whatever if you are planning on buying a 512 say after selling or abandoning a 4096. If you do NOT do that you will still get charged tier even though you do not own land. 

That is not they way it was long ago but things changed. If they have changed yet again, someone will comment on this but it seems like that is still the process.

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Chic Aeon

[Alwin Alcott]

5 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Also note that if you take back your tier from a group you cannot do anything for the next month. Then you can buy your own land or get a linden home or go back to basic.

@Chic Aeon not sure i read this right.

As i understand this is: you withdraw the tier donation, and cant't buy mainland for the same directly after it?

I did this many times, and after the withdraw, the returned unused tier can be used instantly for a new purchase.

- If you mean the tier will still be billed for the whole month after giving up i read it wrong. The "then you can buy....." confused me i think.

 

[Lindal Kidd]

12 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Also note that if you take back your tier from a group you cannot do anything for the next month. Then you can buy your own land or get a linden home or go back to basic. 

ALSO if you are turning back land you need to go to your land are on the webpage and change you tier that you want to pay down to 0 or whatever if you are planning on buying a 512 say after selling or abandoning a 4096. If you do NOT do that you will still get charged tier even though you do not own land. 

Chic, are you sure about these?  I had never heard the first one before!  On the second point, I don't believe that's correct.  LL has always said that the land tier you are in only describes your ABILITY to own XXX amount of land, and that you are charged for the land you ACTUALLY own.

[LittleMe Jewell]

17 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

ALSO if you are turning back land you need to go to your land are on the webpage and change you tier that you want to pay down to 0 or whatever if you are planning on buying a 512 say after selling or abandoning a 4096. If you do NOT do that you will still get charged tier even though you do not own land. 

That is not they way it was long ago but things changed. If they have changed yet again, someone will comment on this but it seems like that is still the process.

 

It might have worked that way at some point in the past, but it no longer does.  I did various tests and recently confirmed it with LL.  The only thing that radio button now controls is when you'll get an inworld warning about increasing Tier level. 

i.e.  If you own 1024 but have the radio button set to 4092, you could buy another 1024 and would not get the inworld warning about increasing your tier costs - even though you are only currently paying for 1024 and would in the future be paying for 2048.  However, if you attempt to buy enough land that will put you above the 4096 tier level, then you would get an inworld warning when you started the purchase process.

Oh, and it will not let you set the button lower than whatever your current tier payment level is.  Thus if you tried to go from 4096 down to 1024 and it doesn't let you, then you either still own more land than you think and/or you have group donations of more than you think.

Edited January 21, 2018 by LittleMe Jewell

[LittleMe Jewell]

17 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Also note that if you take back your tier from a group you cannot do anything for the next month. Then you can buy your own land or get a linden home or go back to basic. 

This is another one of those things that might have been a thing long ago, but definitely isn't any longer. I can pull tier from a group and immediately use it to cover land that I then buy right away.

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

This is another one of those things that might have been a thing long ago, but definitely isn't any longer. I can pull tier from a group and immediately use it to cover land that I then buy right away.

Well my friend had that happen LAST month. She was not able to bid on an auction unless she "upped her tier level" (hence paying $5 just to bid). She was not able to buy land without paying and extra $5 for that month (upper her tier in the backend and then having to REMEMBER to set it back "in time". And she could not get a Linden home. Exactly one month after she sold her land and took the tier back from the land group she could do all those things.   So unless it changed in the last week LOL, I think it is in effect now.   She had been premium for several years and still is. 

Do you have reason to believe it is not the current state? Like you or someone just tried it?  If so, then she had a very bad experience.  This had happened to other friends in the past with the paying for the tier a month after you gave up then land and membership (logical and they DO tell you that in not so many words but I bet a lot of folks get caught in that). I never knew anyone that took back their group tier before though, so this was a surprise to me (and to her but she just waited out the month - not a biggie). 

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Chic Aeon

[Chic Aeon]

6 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Chic, are you sure about these?  I had never heard the first one before!  On the second point, I don't believe that's correct.  LL has always said that the land tier you are in only describes your ABILITY to own XXX amount of land, and that you are charged for the land you ACTUALLY own.

See my note a bit further down on the group tier question. This was last month with someone I know well in RL. 

On the second point, the not turning down your "how much tier I want to pay", that may have been changed. A few years ago though a lot of folks got caught in that including another (not the same LOL) friend. AT THAT TIME there was plenty of chatter on the forums but that was likely five years ago so hopefully they changed that. It was VERY misleading since most folks thought that you just paid for the most you ACTUALLY owned during the last month.   

BUT thinking about this setting your tier level issue ---- See my note on my friends need to "up her tier" in order to bid on an auction or buy land -- this after she had sold her 512 and taken her tier payment back from the group. She assumed (and from the timing of her ability to buy "freely" again it seems correctly) that she had to wait a month for the group tier donation to no longer count since they were using that donation on the month previous (her lot).  That part made sense really.  

The big problem for mainland owners (I rent) is that the rules for the backend seem to change fairly often and with no notice, so even when you are "paying attention" and trying to do things correctly you get caught spending money that you could have avoided. I doubt that is exactly an accident.  

And it was (and likely still is) pretty hard to tell when that land tier payment is due if you are using your 512 since you get no notice of payment. 

So that is all I really know. 

 

[Chic Aeon]

13 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

@Chic Aeon not sure i read this right.

As i understand this is: you withdraw the tier donation, and cant't buy mainland for the same directly after it?

I did this many times, and after the withdraw, the returned unused tier can be used instantly for a new purchase.

- If you mean the tier will still be billed for the whole month after giving up i read it wrong. The "then you can buy....." confused me i think.

 

Not if you want to buy personally, not for group. See all the other comments I made to others. Sorry if I wasn't clear. This really did happen. If it was an error in her account, that could be it. 

She just had a 512 lot.   Certainly she could have sold one lot (the owners of the group got the money and the others in the group sent it back to her)  and then bought another 512 FOR THE GROUP, but she wanted her own lot. After all the hassle she just moved into a Linden Home for awhile, but she couldn't do that for a month after selling her lot AND TAKING BACK THE DONATED TIER.  If her lot would have already been owned by her, then I certainly imagine this would not have been an issue.  If she had bought a new lot FOR THE GROUP, then that (as I understand it anyway) would not have been an issue. 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Chic Aeon

[LittleMe Jewell]

22 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Well my friend had that happen LAST month. She was not able to bid on an auction unless she "upped her tier level" (hence paying $5 just to bid). She was not able to buy land without paying and extra $5 for that month (upper her tier in the backend and then having to REMEMBER to set it back "in time". And she could not get a Linden home. Exactly one month after she sold her land and took the tier back from the land group she could do all those things.   So unless it changed in the last week LOL, I think it is in effect now.   She had been premium for several years and still is.

It has been just under/over a year since I've done it.  The first time, I took my tier back from the Forum Cartel group and used it to buy land.  Then later I sold it and bought new land (though that was all within the same land group).  It doesn't seem to make sense that you couldn't immediately use tier that you pull from a group.  You will be paying for the tier usage, regardless of how or where it is used.

 

As to 'paying for the tier a month after giving up the land', I can see how that can happen since tier is paid in arrears..  If your monthly tier billing date is on the 15th of the month and you get rid of all land on Jan 14th, then the bill of Jan 15th will be your final bill.  However, if you actually get rid of the land on Jan 16th, you will still have to pay the tier on your Feb 15th bill - because that bill covers Jan 15th thru Feb 14th.

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by LittleMe Jewell

[LittleMe Jewell]

I've actually had my eye on some new land and had planned on buying it with a different land group than my current one.  I think I'll see if there is a way I can play around with all of this when I do that and see how things bill out.  I'll have to use an alt and mess with numbers on paper to ensure I don't bump my RL charges up too much.

[Chic Aeon]

1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

It has been just under/over a year since I've done it.  And back many years ago when I first bought land and shortly thereafter sold it and bought new land.  It doesn't seem to make sense that you couldn't immediately use tier that you pull from a group.  You will be paying for the tier usage, regardless of how or where it is used.

 

Well actually I think that does make sense as the group used that tier for the last month - partly for her lot. Now it used to be that if the group didn't have enough tier to cover the payments  then someone would get billed (the main owner I think) for that month. This may be the NEW way of doing things, keeping the tier FOR the group for the previous month so no one got billed. Actually I don't know if any of the group owners got billed. I will ask. Hope not.

 

1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

As to 'paying for the tier a month after giving up the land', I can see how that can happen since tier is paid in arrears..  If your monthly tier billing date is on the 15th of the month and you get rid of all land on Jan 14th, then the bill of Jan 15th will be your final bill.  However, if you actually get rid of the land on Jan 16th, you will still have to pay the tier on your Feb 15th bill - because that bill covers Jan 15th thru Feb 14th.

 

But as I said on another message, if it is a 512 you don't know the billing date. One friend (I do have chatty and whinny friends sometimes :D) ended up paying extra tier AFTER HE CALLED BILLING TO CHECK and was told incorrect information. It was only $5 but the if you don't know when your payment date is (and get the wrong billing person) you can pay extra tier going in or coming out.   At least that was the method a few years ago.

 

[Chic Aeon]

OK. I REALLY NEED TO GET TO WORK - LOL. Good luck all. 

Land is tricky. No doubt about that. And the rules change -- often without our knowledge. Sadly. 

[LittleMe Jewell]

Just now, Chic Aeon said:

But as I said on another message, if it is a 512 you don't know the billing date. One friend (I do have chatty and whinny friends sometimes :D) ended up paying extra tier AFTER HE CALLED BILLING TO CHECK and was told incorrect information. It was only $5 but the if you don't know when your payment date is (and get the wrong billing person) you can pay extra tier going in or coming out.   At least that was the method a few years ago.

 

Even with my alts that are only using their Premium 512 amount, their account page still shows the monthly billing date for tier:

 

[Chic Aeon]

31 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Even with my alts that are only using their Premium 512 amount, their account page still shows the monthly billing date for tier:

 

Well that is very good that is visible now. As I said that was like five years ago and I can imagine that some folks with bigger plots yelled a bit (rightfully IMHO).

I checked with all the land owners of the group (all a local phone call away as I am cell-less purposefully) and no one was billed for the $5. So it SEEMS like the current plan (may, MIGHT, could be?) not to let folks take back tier from the month before. Which if that actually was the case before could cause some big problems if a large tier donated got mad at the group and exited the building leaving the others holding the bag. 

So if that WAS the change, it seems like a good call to me. The real issue is that we pretty much never now when there are changes and the knowledge base and wikis are seldom if ever up to date on important stuff like this. 

So CERTAINLY let us know when you do your experiments.  

 

 

[LittleMe Jewell]

17 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

So CERTAINLY let us know when you do your experiments.  

 

Yes, though it kinda sounds like no matter what I discover, it may not hold true on any kind of consistent basis.

[Lindal Kidd]

@Chic Aeon,

I don't have any examples I can point to...and I went back and read Rand Linden's knowledgebase article, hoping to find some support for my position.  However, I did not.  It may indeed be true that you get charged for whatever tier level you have set in your account, even if you own NO mainland.  I still don't think that's true, but to be safe, everyone should "tier down" when they sell their mainland.

[Chic Aeon]

13 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

@Chic Aeon,

I don't have any examples I can point to...and I went back and read Rand Linden's knowledgebase article, hoping to find some support for my position.  However, I did not.  It may indeed be true that you get charged for whatever tier level you have set in your account, even if you own NO mainland.  I still don't think that's true, but to be safe, everyone should "tier down" when they sell their mainland.

Well perhaps someone will find this thread in the future and clue us in after some grumbling I suspect. But again, things change and we don't know. 

 

 

[Rolig Loon]

16 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

It may indeed be true that you get charged for whatever tier level you have set in your account, even if you own NO mainland.  I still don't think that's true, but to be safe, everyone should "tier down" when they sell their mainland.

I have never understood that to be the case, either, Lindal. AFAIK, that is simply like setting your burglar alarm. If you try to buy more than the level you have set, you get an alert to tell you that you are about to go over. You don't get charged for setting the level.

[LittleMe Jewell]

One update: I bumped my tier up on the Land Use Fees page via the radio button - from the $5.00 level to the $8 level - and I did that a week before my tier billing day.  I did not change my actual usage at all. Interestingly enough the information on that page, up under the Land Use Fees section, is not being displayed correctly. When I changed the radio button, both the 'Current Fees' and the 'Estimated Fees' columns changed to indicate the $8 amount - even though my "current usage" had not actually changed.

 

I then went to LL Chat and talked to LL about it. She said that the 'Current Fees' column is not showing correctly and that the 'Land Holdings' section of my Account Summary would provide the true correct amount to be billed.  I checked there and sure enough it still showed $5.00 -- note that the 'Allowed' and 'Available' both do show the additonal 512 sqm that I could use based on my $8.00 level setting, but the 'Peak usage' is only showing the 1024 that I've been using (my free 512 and the 512 that I pay $5 for)

 

I then waited until my tier bill date and I can confirm that I was only billed $5.00 even though the radio button had been updated to the $8.00 level.

 

The fact that the 'Current Fees' column of Land Use Fees does not show correctly may be why people are thinking they will get charged if they don't reduce the radio button.  It sure made me do a double take and promptly get into chat with LL about it.

 

 

[Lindal Kidd]

I'm glad you risked taking a bullet for the team, Lil!  And even happier that it was a misfire.

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Lindal Kidd said:

I'm glad you risked taking a bullet for the team, Lil!  And even happier that it was a misfire.

I'm going to be increasing land this month anyway.  It would have only been a hit of $3 a bit early.